Typ 1h engine size

[daddio]

I was talking to my local Motor Vehicle office and they asked me what size this "motorcycles" engine will be in "cc"? Has anyone seen the displacement size listed?
Wiki Aptera didn't have it shown in cc

[evolutionmovement]

Did they give a displacement in cubic inches, then? 1 cu. in. = 16.4 cc. When I asked about how my 3-wheel project would be classified, my DMV told me 1800cc was too big for a motorcycle when the engine I was going to use was actually from a motorcycle. Hope you have better luck with yours.

[n_dawg]

I think the issue is that we don't know the displacement of the engine, not the units it's measured in.

[jdbgn]

If I understand correctly, even the 1h is battery powered, boosting the range with a generator to recharge the batteries while on the road.
As far as I can figure they have not chosen the generator that they will actually use for this purpose.
Aptera is supposed to have all the details taken care of with DMV before they start putting the vehicles out the door. Your local DMV will have no information until then.

[evolutionmovement]

Actually, is it relevant at all since the genset doesn't actually power the vehicle? I'd tell the DMV it's essentially an electric motorcycle.

[3-4-me]

Did they give a displacement in cubic inches, then? 1 cu. in. = 16.4 cc. When I asked about how my 3-wheel project would be classified, my DMV told me 1800cc was too big for a motorcycle when the engine I was going to use was actually from a motorcycle. Hope you have better luck with yours.

How do they handle a Boss Hoss then?
A 350 small block on 2 wheels is still a motorcycle.http://asware.net/serendipity/uploads/mirror/BossHoss.jpg

[garygid]

If one had to register the 1e, and they insisted on the
engine size (cc), see if they like "zero". :happy0025:

[esmith]

Actually, is it relevant at all since the genset doesn't actually power the vehicle? I'd tell the DMV it's essentially an electric motorcycle.

It may be relevant from the emissions point of view. It does not power the vehicle but it still produces CO2, CO, the whole nine yards.

[iwannaptera]

It may be relevant from the emissions point of view. It does not power the vehicle but it still produces CO2, CO, the whole nine yards.

Good point. That's why they couldn't get a diesel to pass emissions. Can you imagine a car that gets 120-300 mpg doesn't pass emissions? That's because engine emissions are measured as grams of pollutant per gallon of fuel burned. You might have gone 300 miles on that gallon, but you still emitted the same amount of NOx and particulates while burning that gallon as you would have if the vehicle got 10miles/gallon. They are treated the same. MADNESS!

[evolutionmovement]

But if it's a motorcycle, I can't see how it wouldn't pass unless there's absolutely no emissions equipment since there are plenty of modern motorcycles that pass emissions, yet still use carbs and certainly none I've seen have catalytic converters for all the HC, NOx, and CO.

As for the Boss Hoss, I have no idea, that's what got me about how clueless the DMV in MA is - a Goldwing engine was too big to be a motorcycle! I gave up and figure I may have to do some dancing with titling it in NH as a custom motorcycle and then transferring the registration here. MA DMV won't be inspecting it for road-worthiness then and scratching their heads on how to classify it. They also didn't like that it has side-by-side seating, car controls, and doors. They basically told me to build it and see what happens. Yeah, I'll do all that to find I can't register it.

The reason for the diesel not making it with the Aptera is that I doubt they could get an appropriately modern small unit for cheap enough and then add the emissions equipment necessary to pass CA's very stringent emissions that have effectively outlawed diesel cars for some time in that state and put up a roadblock to more. Presently, only Mercedes-Benz and VW have cars that can pass. Putting ammonia injection systems and particulate filters in something like the Aptera would be difficult at best.

Emissions standards are based on ppm, so that's not quite true - an engine burning less fuel puts out less emissions period. CA was going to do some kind of back-door fuel economy regulation to set their standards higher than CAFE by calling for lower CO2 emissions (consequently, forcing higher mileage), but I don't think that went through. Last I knew, it was still being fought in court. God forbid the Fed honor that this is the United STATES of America, and grant them power over their own locality for more strict standards.

Edited for me being stupid about CAFE vs. emissions.

[gistmarrs]

I think they could be a bit creative about the diesel generator in the Aptera to get it to "pass" emissions. The 1h is an electric vehicle that can use a generator to charge its batteries. I don't think anyone checks generators in motorhomes for emissions per mile.
Maybe Aptera should sell the 1h as an electric vehicle for $25,000 and offer the diesel generator as an option for $5,000.

[evolutionmovement]

But if you're trying to sell a "green" vehicle (I wish it literally was and came in British Racing Green or similar), having a dirty generator might hurt your image with the environmental crowd. That's if you could do it. It would have to depend on the way the law is written for generators and if the integrated genset in a hybrid would qualify and/or how emissions laws cover part-time genset use. I would guess they measure emissions as if it were a car engine, with perhaps some formula allowing for the engine running only part time. Stationary generators have their own set of standards and measurements, but they probably are regulated as cars - cars are measured in ppm, not by the mile. If you live in an emissions testing state, check your receipt and it will have all the numbers for allowances and measured ppm of the various combustion byproduct.

[gistmarrs]

California is different with its own air quality reg's. The Mercedes that someone mentioned earlier is not available in California. From the MBUSA website"1. The 2008 E320 BLUETEC does not meet the emissions requirements of California" One of the most efficient diesels on the planet cannot meet California emissions requirements, however the engine in my truck that gets 10mpg does. The law needs to change.