9/26/08 - Aptera Newsletter - aptera.com

[jsnable]

See http://aptera.com/newsletter092508/ for a copy. Some interesting stuff in the picture!

Jay

[G-Jet]

wow! didn't see that coming. check out the window???

good news!

G

[evmavin]

looks like one camera and windows instead of three and perhaps one lcd screen to save money? I see the fin....

[Rat]

And that looks like a side mirror in the top shot but not in the one with the doors open

[G-Jet]

3 days ago on the website and no one noticed!

G

[KarenRei]

This is like one of those "let's spot the changes" pictures!

1) Side mirrors
2) Roof fin
3) Split windows
4) Rear side windows instead of side cameras
5) Longer rear skirt with shorter off-color patch
6) Lower stance with shifted wheel attachment

I've aligned the two images by the wheels, roughly matched the contrast, and here's the results:

http://www.daughtersoftiresias.org/images/Aptera/aptera-newsletter-anim.gif

Overall, let me give those changes a solid "Meh." :P Also, I was hoping for higher wheel skirts or a rubber base on the skirts -- no such luck, it seems. Let's hope some of these changes are optional... Also, of note is that the features are matching those on the vehicle that seems to be FWD. More questions than answers indeed... I hope there's a good reason for the changes.

I will say, though, that I think that, at least as far as this rendering goes, looks like they did a pretty good job with the split windows.

Just for reference, here's the other shots we have of cars similar to this:

http://www.daughtersoftiresias.org/images/Aptera/UnfinishedApteras-stitch.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v724/NeilBlanchard/ApteraW-OwheelFairings.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v724/NeilBlanchard/3-Apteras.jpg

[evmavin]

Looks like higher wind screen. The off- color patch is most likely lighting for effect, high hats. I like the old design better as it's less like a traditional vehicle, sans mirrors etc.

[evmavin]

Split window- OUCH. Not enough room to roll down or bad angles I guess. Non-glass would really be a bummer as it starts to become a bit cheap looking. I guess you can still stick your hand out and check the drag factor or stop the car with a cupped hand:)

[G-Jet]

Karen,

It looks like the rear skirt is the same, but the "off-color patch" is shorter.

G

[evmavin]

And.. It is possible that by lowering the CG they may have brought the wheels in a bit? It would be nice if they end up reducing three inside screens to one then they could get rid of the street deck on-a-pole and put it in the dash, that was a bit aftermarket looking. Mirrors instead of two additional cams and screens is a big savings and frees up real estate on the dash. Not as fun or cool looking though.

Concept to production reality:)

[JimmyDreams]

My newsletter JUST arrived in my mailbox, at 10:45pm. I remember that when they sent out the new 'split' reservation list, my email came many hours after everyone elses'

Oh well...

;)

JimmyD

[garygid]

Could the side rear-view mirror pods also be used
to contain side-view TV cams?
Maybe front-view cameras also?

Side-rear windows seem useless.

[aptera1213]

like the old design better, but this one if fine and might grow on me...just happy to get a newsletter and happy they are still working hard it seems


kinda surprised they are doing this many changes this close to "ship" date of dec

[OC-LA driver]

I've had reservations about the rear-view cameras at night; will I have some SUV's headlights blaring up at me from the screens? Will there be enough fidelity to back confidently in the dark? Perhaps the mirrors and new windows are in response to these concerns?

There may have been a huge blind spot from the rear of the passenger window to about even with the former side camera. Was depth perception hard for people to gauge, since the view's origin was the B-pillar and not the driver's seat?

When they say the new one is safer, could they mean now the driver doesn't have to look down instead of over his shoulder when changing lanes suddenly to avoid a crash? A more intuitive user interface is safer when instant decisions must be made.

Not to mention broader market appeal by being more like other vehicles.

Lower cost and complexity leave room for lower costs (which help profit margin per unit ) and/or lower price (which helps spur sales and increase total dollar profit from the fixed investment in design and manufacturing).

I like the look without mirrors, and I like the cooler car idea...but if their omission keeps it affordable...

[evmavin]

Any cost cutting will most likely not reduce the price but help them from raising it more.

[ciege]

Finally. I get a fix from Aptera, it's been way to long between News Letters. It does appear that they have been working hard on some changes. I do agree with the one comment about a 'lower CG.' The narrower the better, I was worried about the width of the vehicle fitting most 'single car garage' widths. They are normally just on 8 feet.

Mirrors? I guess if it save cost, real estate on the dash.....but I did like the three cams originally. The fin on top? GPS unit is it. Side windows? Must be due to some visibility issue without the extra cameras. Not sure about the look, but the vehicle is still basically the same 'overall'. I would have liked at least a hint on 'production dates'. I know with my reservation that it will probably be at least a year before I get a shot.

[Apt3448]

Side-rear windows seem useless.
My thoughts, exactly. Why have these things? Too small to really judge traffic, anyway, and in terms of complexity only extra costs. Anybody any thoughts?

[KarenRei]

kinda surprised they are doing this many changes this close to "ship" date of dec

The changes aren't new. They're visible in videos taken many months ago. They're just being officially unveiled now.

I've had reservations about the rear-view cameras at night; will I have some SUV's headlights blaring up at me from the screens? Will there be enough fidelity to back confidently in the dark? Perhaps the mirrors and new windows are in response to these concerns?

No, they work just fine in the dark. Check out the YouTube video, "Aptera Nighttime Walkaround". Probably better than you can see with your eyes.

I like the look without mirrors, and I like the cooler car idea...but if their omission keeps it affordable...

I doubt it's about affordability. I imagine it's regulatory.

The fin on top? GPS unit is it.

Shouldn't need a fin for that. The Mk1 has a functioning GPS in it (you can see the StreetDeck system show their current location in satellite view in a couple videos) without a fin. Fiberglass is transparent to microwaves.

I'd have to agree with those who suggest the fin is a wide-angle camera.

[CrewmanC]

Hmmmm...well it definately went through some changes. I wonder like everyone else about the fin and the mirrors. It would DEFINTATELY be a shame if they got rid of their eyes forward thinking and cameras. Also I am surprised there is not more talk about the solar panels. I can't believe that they would just dump a major part of their design for cooling, reducing the weight of the car when your not in there, and temporarily recharging parts, just like that. These two aspects the cameras and solar panels were high on my list so I really hope that they are not officially gone, or now added as an "Extra Cost."

[G-Jet]

I don't see ANY evidence that the solar panel is gone and don't understand how anyone could think that based on the latest newsletter.

G

[KarenRei]

They're basing that on seeing test vehicles without solar panels. However, they're ignoring that these are *test* vehicles, and that you don't need to put everything on a test vehicle. Will they next assume that because some of the vehicles we saw didn't have wheel pods that Aptera is ditching the use of wheel pods? :)

[aptera1213]

side windows will also let in more heat...even more reason to have the solar for extra help with cooling

[ciege]

Just a 'Novice' observation. The windows added to the 'latest model' appear to have engulfed the position of the former side cameras. Assuming the cameras had been placed in their 'optimal' position, would this preclude the option of having cameras any longer? I am assuming of course that the new windows are NOT optional.

[KarenRei]

The "fin" could be a wide-angle camera.

[ciege]

I like the thought, it is in keeping with the Aptera mantra of less is more. Less complexity, lighter weight, doing the same task. One screen for viewing, perfect. I agree with another post elsewhere, that 'mirrors' may be a mandate due to arcain laws that are not easily circumvented.

[G-Jet]

I like how Gary has determined the side windows "useless". Has he driven or seen it?

G

[TheAeronut]

I like the new rear quarter windows. One of my concerns was that of an apparent blind spot on the right side just aft of the passenger door. The rear quarter windows will fix that. I am still not too fond of the fin, but it is not too bad. I just wonder what it is for. At least the fin is small and would not necessarily preclude the solar panel, even though it would displace a few of the cells.

I sincerely hope that the rooftop solar panel is at least an option - I would hate to see it go away all together. I REALLY like the idea of the always on AC - especially valuable here in Texas, and anywhere in the south, desert, wherever it is HOT and SUNNY!

Some of the differences between the pictures that Karen has flipping in post 6 can be accounted for by differing camera positions. The older pic appears to have been shot from slightly higher up and a few feet further back. Still the rear wheel pod does seem to be longer. The nose appears to be a bit longer as well. I certainly hope that if the vehicle is an inch or two lower as it appears to be, that it is also six inches or so narrower. The total vehicle width is a bit of a concnern for me. Of course, I happen to prefer smaller cars. I can drive them if they are large, I just prefer small.

Now - When can I get an Aptera of my own???? The sooner, the better! Not soon enough, as I am waiting for the 1h.....................

J.P.

[aptera1213]

I like how Gary has determined the side windows "useless". Has he driven or seen it?

G


well they are much too high to use for looking at the curb...though you don't have back wheels to worry about...if people are backing up and hit the curb with the single rear wheel, well they need a lot of practice on parallel parking

i do like the lower profile...i like that it will be brighter...i like the larger side windows...i hope that lower profile allows for narrowing of the front wheels...i like that it might be front wheel drive...

i hope they keep the solar and i hope the added windows don't add to much heat in the sun...


i dislike the side mirrors, but what you gonna do...i was surprised that they thought they could do without them...i know they are mandatory in many states....

i'm fine with it as a whole....just hope they start building them soon

[Ceazar77]

Although the side widows may perclude side cameras in that location, they may be able to mount both rear and side cameras in the fin. I actually prefer the fin to the indents in the body. As long as it doesn't effect drag (they said it is the most airodynamic shape yet) it gets the cameras higher.

[bigalwedworth]

Wow a Newsletter! Keep up the good work!
I like info....
I can't wait to be drivin my Aptera around town.
Could be soon..
Thanks for the info Aptera!

[Ricky Ray]

:aptera: I want my Aptera and I want it yesterday:jumping0007:

[aptera1213]

^ +1............

[n_dawg]

I suspect the new windows would be replaced by a panel containing the rear-view cameras on the high-end model. It's really the only way to make those side-view cameras "optional." No changes to the body, and there's windows there for visibility if you don't order them.

[Apt3448]

I suspect the new windows would be replaced by a panel containing the rear-view cameras on the high-end model. It's really the only way to make those side-view cameras "optional." No changes to the body, and there's windows there for visibility if you don't order them.
Interesting idea.. I like it

[TheAeronut]

My guess follows a number of others: the fin contains one or more cameras in a wide angle arrangement. Also, my guess is that the fin produces LESS drag than the camera indents that seem to have disappeared. No need to replace the windows with camera panels. If necessary, I would bet that they would put cameras behind (inside the cabin) the new glass panels.

J.P.

[Aptera#1434]

If we must have side mirrors, I wonder what the wind drag will translate to in lost MPG's?

I sent the Aperta Company and email today asking: "Since we have $500 deposits on the vehicle, why don't you keep us in th loop when an opportunity arises to go view the vehicle, i.e. Gordon McCall's Motorworks Revival in Monterey?"

Some VIP passes would be nice :-)

No response yet.........

[Apt3448]

So now we have to find out whether we can legally remove the mirrors if there is indeed sufficient camera. Why on earth would they combine eye forward AND cameras? As they sell at first only in CA why do we worry about laws in other states? I am confused.
Oh, and doesn't basjoos mounted the side mirrors INSIDE the car?

[TheAeronut]

Why worry about other states?? Because they don't want to redesign the vehicle for every state that they export it to - just one design done right the first time. That, and I am sure that they know that some of the California Only sales will manage to slip out of the grand empire of California. No need to change the design in the future, just accomodate the requirements to begin with.

J.P.

[n_dawg]

Yes, basjoos (and lots of other hypermilers) have inside mirrors. Cheap, simple, no power, no drag, etc.

[jdbgn]

Mirrors are something DMV understands. Heads up Display (eyes forward if you prefer) with cameras is something that is not proven with the average driver consequently you are required to have outside rear view mirrors. By California law.
I'll bet they offer the cameras as an option. It was mentioned some time ago as such as were cup holders, Ipod dock, GPS and other "exotic" equipment.

[n_dawg]

Mirrors are something DMV understands. Heads up Display (eyes forward if you prefer) with cameras is something that is not proven with the average driver consequently you are required to have outside rear view mirrors. By California law.
I'll bet they offer the cameras as an option. It was mentioned some time ago as such as were cup holders, Ipod dock, GPS and other "exotic" equipment.

Can anyone point out where in CA law it states that the mirrors must be outside the cabin? Remember, this is legally a motorcycle.

[evmavin]

Can anyone point out where in CA law it states that the mirrors must be outside the cabin? Remember, this is legally a motorcycle.


You may be right but read the language closely, I think the reflection must be seen for a long distance, tough without a visible mirror.

[n_dawg]

This is it:

26709. (a) Every motor vehicle registered in a foreign jurisdiction
and every motorcycle subject to registration in this state shall be
equipped with a mirror so located as to reflect to the driver a view
of the highway for a distance of at least 200 feet to the rear of
such vehicle.

Totally doable without protrusions. 200 feet is not terribly far. Also, don't forget that you shouldn't be able to see directly behind you with your side-mirror *anyways* – it's for checking your blind spot on that side.

[aptera1213]

Can anyone point out where in CA law it states that the mirrors must be outside the cabin? Remember, this is legally a motorcycle.


as a motorcycle rider...all motorcycles have to have at least one mirror on the clutch side

[OC-LA driver]

Any chance they concealed the charging plug under a flip-up rear license plate so (1) smoother side (2) some rain protection and (3) accessible equally from either side of vehicle?

Remember when gas cap was behind the rear plate? Haven't seen that for a while :-)

[johnvall]

Aptera 1213, I agree, the old design looks much better.

[Eyelawdoc]

I like the new design! Rear quarter windows and the lower stance make it look more automotive.

It would be cool to have the charging connection behind a fold-down or flip-up license plate in the back. Just like on the 1964 GTO!

[Ardie3301]

The new Mk-1 ("Mk-1a?) seems to be lower, sleeker, and a bit more refined than the Mk-1, and *tons* of improvement over the Mk-0 prototype.

The nose seems lower and longer. Referring back to an old photo with the Aptera's hood "up," this one's nose is gonna hit the ground for sure unless there is a change in the way it opens. Maybe hinges like on car trunklids so they swing up and away.

The headlights are now closer to the pavement due to the sleeker design. I know that there are DOT minimum/maximum height limits for headlights; I hope it still meets this requirement.

The side view mirrors seem really teeny. I hope they are large enough to be useful from over an arm's distance away. Especially the passenger side (if there is one over there). Too bad they couldn't simply mount it on the back of the wheel's outrigger teardrop shell. Another foot farther away, but it could be faired into the teardrop for better aerodynamics. Maybe they couldn't because the right side teardrop can't be seen from the driver's seat in all positions. I dunno.

Door hinge geometry appears the same. I can see one hinge point at the upper left corner of the door, but not the other one expected to be at about the side view mirror.

The door handle cup seems to have a seam around it, so I suspect that it is now part of a different mold than the exterior body mold. No advantage I can see, except it may be simpler to manufacture. No door key lock anywhere. I guess they are still sticking with the RFID key concept. Fine by me.

The door window is now in two pieces, and I'm guessing that the little section rolls down to allow interaction with the outside world without having to open the whole door. I would've liked a bigger roll-down section, but maybe then I'd complain about having to look at the seam line all day long because the seam is at eye level. You can't please everybody.

The rear triangular windows may not seem like much, but I bet it makes *worlds* of difference when you're inside looking out. No blind spot in that crucial 3/4 right side location.

No charging door. It must've been moved. Aptera's latest newsletter makes a big deal about reducing cabling, so the charging door may now be closer to the charging equipment, which is probably in the nose. So the charging door may be up front now. I always thought that the (old) charging door would get broken off because of the way it hung down when open. Hopefully, the new door is designed to tolerate more abuse. After all, it will get used at least once a day (more or less) for the life of the car.

A dab of Photoshopping lightened up the interior a bit, and there is a new seat in place, but not enough detail to say much more about any changes that has happened inside.

The shark fin looks kinda cool. Its actual use is unconfirmed , but a likely suspect is a GPS antenna. Odd, because it could be molded into the panel, but there *is* a lot of metal bonded into the body to create a safety cage. The shark fin may be necessary to eliminate any EMI problems.

The photo doesn't reveal enough information about the rooftop for me to see if the solar panels are still there. It would be a shame to see them go, but the solar panels were underneath a heavy glass panel. Maybe Aptera needed to lose some weight. If they are indeed gone from the rooftop, I suppose they could've just moved the solar panels to the dashboard underneath the windshield. Its a l-o-n-g reach from the base of the steering wheel to the base of the windsheld. Plenty of acreage for some photon grabbers there.

The tailwheel's tailbone has been slightly redesigned, or at least the color scheme is a bit different. The tire underneath is probably the same, as Aptera claimed they already found the tire with the least rolling resistance for its size. A hint to Aptera: The pictures I've seen so far shows the Aptera's tires using ordinary stamped steel wheels. Too heavy. It may be adventageous to use mag wheels, or even the fancy new plastic wheels (if cost is less of an object than reducing unsprung weight). They may already be planning this, and simply using cheap stamped steel wheels for their test beds.

All in all, I like their new exterior look. I hope their innards have been similarly refined and improved.

-- Ardie

[evmavin]

Anything reflective on the dash would cause glare on the windshield.

[randyd]

Did anyone else stumble upon the link to the Aptera Newsletter images page (http://www.aptera.com/newsletter092508/i)? There are some images not used in the newsletter itself.

[Ricky Ray]

:aptera: I am NOT crazy about the side windows or the mirrors, but if they have to be they have to be. I DO want the solar panels with the constant air flow to keep the inside temps down. The fin on top may well be an antenna or camera, but if a camera it could be redesigned in to the body to keep down drag, I have GPS in my jeep and no antenna was needed. Over all it is interesting redesign. They need to get to producing them.:jumping0007:

[TheAeronut]

If you check the newsletter images page, have a close look at the image toppicture_newsletter.jpg which appears to be the header pic for the previous newsletter... There is no charge port door on that one either - it has the same seam around the door latch indent as the new pic. This says that the relocation of the charge port has been around for a couple of months now.

As has been speculated, the charge port may now be located there. Open the cabin door, open the charge port door, plug in, close the charge port door, pull the charge cord through the latch indent and close the cabin door. The extension cord would now be trapped in the socket until the cabin door is opened. Is this a secruity feature? Seems like it. Almost no cost, other than retooling the shell mold - which has been done several times now anyway.

J.P.

[n_dawg]

Just for reference, here's the other shots we have of cars similar to this:

http://www.daughtersoftiresias.org/images/Aptera/UnfinishedApteras-stitch.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v724/NeilBlanchard/ApteraW-OwheelFairings.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v724/NeilBlanchard/3-Apteras.jpg

Ok, so let's recap: We know now that at least 3 Apteras exist.


The original Mk-1, unveiled in September at their launch party. "High" suspension, three+one cameras, no mirrors, black hubs, solar panel, no fin, StreetDeck. This is the middle vehicle in the procession.
The second vehicle, first seen in the factory tour. "Low" suspension, three cameras, mirrors, white hubs, solar panel, fin, no StreetDeck. Seen driving around solo skirtless. This is the first vehicle in the procession. Possibly the first Typ-1h, if so first seen in the Pop Mech video.
The third vehicle, first seen in the procession. "Low" suspension, no cameras (and no body indent), mirrors, unknown hub color, no solar panel, fin, unknown Streetdeck. This is the closest vehicle in the procession. Also worth noting that it has no rear black skirtguard.

[NeilBlanchard]

Hi,

The third version does have a camera indent in the center; just below the rear window. Hopefully, we see a version with the rear quarter windows soon?

[Apt3448]

Hmmm... I never realized that the third car indeed has a camera indent on the hatch, even though the side camera's are missing. These are interchangeable parts, so I'm not sure if that actually means something. What could a single camera be good for? (assuming this is not the additional backup camera under the tail).

[n_dawg]

Hi,

The third version does have a camera indent in the center; just below the rear window. Hopefully, we see a version with the rear quarter windows soon?

*nod* Notice I said "body indents." I assume they just haven't made the new rear hatch mold.