Type 1 size?

[twelve33]

Does anyone know what size the Type 1 is? In some of the videos it looks positively huge (compare it to the size of the truck in this video: http://youtube.com/watch?v=sGt8Gv8i0d0).
I did some measurements on various pictures and videos, and came to the conclusion that it must be about 5ft high, 15 feet long, and 8 ft wide (it seems to be about 3 times as long as it is high, and 1.6 times as wide as it is high, and looks to be about 5 ft high).
That width concerns me. It might technically fit in a standard parking spot, but it's wheel-pods will probably be touching the adjacent spots.

[KarenRei]

I ran some calculations based on my observations in pictures, and your numbers seem pretty close to mine. For comparison, my Saturn SL1 sedan is approximately 4 1/4' tall, 14' long, and 6 1/2' wide from mirror to mirror. My single car garage door is 9'. Googling, I find that a Hummer H1 is 7 1/4' wide, and a H2 is 6 3/4' wide (approximately). A parking space is generally 8 to 9 feet wide. A lane on a road is typically 12'.

It'd be nice if Aptera clarified the dimensions. 8' wouldn't be unworkable, but would still be a lot.

According to Wikipedia, the Aptera Mk-0's wheelbase is 5 1/3', length is 14.4'. I thought the Mk-0 and Mk-1 were pretty much the same size?

[twelve33]

According to Wikipedia, the Aptera Mk-0's wheelbase is 5 1/3', length is 14.4'. I thought the Mk-0 and Mk-1 were pretty much the same size?

Well, the length is pretty close to what I estimated, but I have my doubts about the accuracy of the wheelbase quoted in the wikipedia article. It would mean that the vehicle sticks out a combined 109 inches over the (center of the) front and back wheels. That's more than 4 feet on both sides!
If those numbers are true though, then the Typ-1 appears to have a much larger wheelbase.

[Yanquetino]

twelve33:

I think that the Typ-1 must be about 8-feet wide. I base this conclusion on the following photo from wired.com of the vehicle in the shop:

http://www.wired.com/images/article/magazine/1601/ff_100mpg4_630.jpg

Floor tiles are usually 1'x1' square. Unless they are using very unique tiles in the shop, there are... 8 of them from the outside of one wheel-well to the outside of the other. That's pretty wide, and only gives 2 feet of clearance on either side when driving down a "standard" 12-foot car lane.

Of course, that's probably as wide as they could make the wheelbase because some states (like mine) prohibit anything on the roads wider than that --unless one has a special permit.

[3-4-me]

I have the same floor creeper that the guy is laying on.
I just went out and took some measurements.
The 1st and 3rd creeper wheels are 28" apart center-center.
The wheels aren't all the way out to the edge of the tiles either.
Also; the tiles appear to be those rubber type. They could be almost any size.

[c0mp13x]

Don't know if that creeper's wheels are 28" apart, that would make the top and bottom sets of wheels 56" apart, and that doesn't seem to match up proportionately to the guy's torso.

I agree with yanq, those look like 12" squares compared to their surroundings.

That would make the front track (wheels, center-to-center), ~7' across. Including the wheel shrouds, the total width of the vehicle looks to be ~7.5'.

As speculated previously, that make the vehicle width quite large... for pulling into your garage and staying in your lane. Think of those 2-wheeled motorcyclists splitting lanes in Cali and coming up on a Aptera front wheel!

When parallel parking, it'll be no problem swinging that 1-wheeled rear into the spot... the challenge will be not scraping the right front wheel shroud on that high curb. It's one thing to scrape your tires and/or wheels on a curb, but imagine how ticked you'd be if you scraped a painted portion of your car's bodywork on a high curb. Trim the lower portion of the outside of the shroud to clear high curbs?

Take a look at this pic of an old (low) Pasadena curb in relation to the bottom of Aptera's wheel shroud: Aptera in Pasadena (http://www.apteraforum.com/showthread.php?t=193)

;)

[3-4-me]

Don't know if that creeper's wheels are 28" apart, that would make the top and bottom sets of wheels 56" apart, and that doesn't seem to match up proportionately to the guy's torso.

I agree with yanq, those look like 12" squares compared to their surroundings.

That would make the front track (wheels, center-to-center), ~7' across. Including the wheel shrouds, the total width of the vehicle looks to be ~7.5'.

Sorry, I wasn't very clear on that. The 28" is the distance between the top and bottom wheels.
I've layed a lot of tile; 12x12's range from 11.25-11.75"
I borrowed this from another thread; stop it at 0:50
The Aptera looks close to the full sized Chevy following it.
The track on the Chevy is 79.1"
Just my .02;)
mmO5K_4lMpg

[IanO]

Here's a wild and crazy idea...

I recall a microcar from the 50's that also had outboard front wheels for a wider, more stable track. It was designed light enough that the customer could lift the front of the car, causing the outboard wheels to swing and lock under the main body of the car, giving a narrow profile for parking or storage.

I ran across an advertisement or documentary showing this car on youtube a while back, but I can't recall the manufacturer now.

Ian

[palmer_md]

While 7.5' wide is about a foot wider than most wide vehicles (ie trucks and vans), it is not too bad. I've towed several trailers that have an 8' wheel width and while it does take a few miles to get comfortable and not keep looking in the mirrors, you do eventually get used to driving in the correct place in the lane to keep the wheels between the lines. I imagine that when the wide wheels are in front of you and not on a trailer this learning curve is much shorter.

The one thing that does concern me is damage to the wheel pods from curbs and such. I'd like to see the pods built with separate upper and lower halfs. The lower half would be built out of some forgiving type of plastic, and is easily replacable if the damage is too great. This way you are not replacing the entire pod when you accidently curb the wheel.

Mike

[LQUAN]

Got curb feelers or curb finders anyone?

No? Seriously, we need a proximity sensors on each of those wheel pants.

[Yanquetino]

Palmer: Yeah, I tow an 8' wide trailer, and that girth takes a bit of getting used to, but is certainly "doable." Several of us share your concern (http://www.apteraforum.com/showthread.php?t=53) about the wheel wells hitting curbs, potholes, and other obstacles. :eek: I have noticed in more recent photos that now there are black portions on the wheel structures (along the bottom of the rear housing, the front arms close to the body). Maybe Aptera is experimenting with protective rubber "bumpers" and might end up also putting them around the lower portion of the wheel wells...? We'll just have to see, I suppose!

[c0mp13x]

...wheel pants.
Forget wheel 'covers', 'shrouds' or 'pods'. Greatest name ever... 'wheel pants' Ha! Nice!!!

:D

[Chupacabra]

The tiles appear about 10 inches to me.. a little less then a foot but very close

[butter]

This is definitely one of the very few things that worry me -- the distance between the front wheels. It does indeed look huge for what is otherwise a sweet little car.

Others have pointed out that 8 feet is within the legal size and that RVs and trailers are this wide, and that it's definitely doable.

But for a lifelong compact car driver like me, size matters! And I've always deeply appreciated the smallness of the cars I've driven -- for their convenience, their ease of handling, their fuel economy of course (but that's irrelevant in the case of Aptera), and perhaps most significantly, the ease with which I can park my compact car in nearly any parking space out there. Oh yeah, also the small size gives me more confidence in squeezing down tight lanes or passing other cars that may not be exactly center or even inside their lanes.

With a giant 8-foot span, I'll not only feel like a clumsy behemoth, I will genuinely feel irritated and frustrated that I won't have the luxury of choice anymore when it comes to finding parking in the often-crowded lots (where people sometimes park badly, crossing a little over the line) and tight street parking all around Los Angeles. With my Corolla, I can squeeze into almost anything, even spots that others pass up; but what of my future beloved Aptera?

Sigh.

[futura]

Not knowing the wheel track width has really started to bug me.
I even tried to figure out the maker of those floor tiles in the shop picture to get a dimension. No dice, maybe someone else will have better luck.
Fig. 1 is a pic I pulled from an Aptera Flicker site.
Fig 2 is my way of estimating the width using the model as a "ruler".
She's pretty tall but she fits easily into the car based on other photos in the shoot. Sooo, if she's 6ft then I'm guestimating about a 7 ft width (on the outside).
Cheers.
6
7

[aptera1213]

i'm thinking the tiles are 10" also, instead of 12...

makes the car a bit under 7 feet wide vs nearly 8 feet wide (by eyeball, just under 8 tiles...so about 6 feet 8 inches vs just under 8 feet---that is IF the tiles are 10 inches...

g

[KarenRei]

Well, if the Aptera is too wide for you, there's always the very thin VentureOne. :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VentureOne

The Aptera's width is to keep it stable. It's a trike, and most importantly, it flies along the road significantly above the ground. This ground clearance reduces drag, but raises the center of gravity. Positioning the batteries low certainly helps, but I can certainly understand why they wanted a wide wheelbase.

The VentureOne takes an opposite approach. It's basically a self-leaning motorcycle. The driver and passenger ride in tandem instead of side by side. By leaning as far as 45 degrees, it remains stable on even sharp turns. Overall, I think the Aptera approach leads to a safer design with equal or better energy efficiency (despite the larger cross-section), but both are quite reasonable ways to deal with the issue.

[aptera1213]

the car wheel pants....go from the edge of tile one to "almost" the length of tile 8...if 12 inches, the width is just under 8 feet...make it 7 feet 9 inches...

if the tiles are 10 inches, then the width is between 6 feet 4 inches to 6 feet 8 inches...

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3285/2296215137_9b7e191f32_o.jpg

g

[butter]

wow, I'm loving these analyses! I appreciate all of them! I like the numbers superimposed on the tiles, and the model cutout getting tilted sideways cracked me up.

I don't think the width is a make or break detail: even if it is as wide as 8 feet, I would find the "sacrifice" worth it. But like most others, I can't help but idealize the Aptera, obsessing on every last detail.

[futura]

They ain't talking':
Here's my email and reply from Aptera (nice quick response):
-----------
To: family
Subject: It's a question of width...

...can't find this info anywhere. It looks like the wheel track width
is about 7 ft.

Where can I find the actual dimensions of the Type-1e prototype?

Thanks!

--------------
Hello,

Thanks for the inquiry, but unfortunately, I am unable to answer your question at this time. We will be posting our dimensions as we near production, however, the vehicle does fit in a normal sized parking space. There are more pictures available on our MySpace profile (http://www.myspace.com/theaptera).

Kind regards,

Emily Mizutani
Aptera
---------------

Perhaps they want to mess with this a bit more on the prototype.
--Cheers

[butter]

wow that IS a quick reply. Of course we all know that it fits in a regular parking space, but what petty anal little me wants to know is how *easily* it fits -- oh well. I'll just focus on all the attention I'll get on its snazziness and forget about how its front wheels might get in somebody's way.

[butter]

You know, I was walking to my car parked in the lot outside Petsmart today and took a few seconds to look at the parking space my Corolla was in.

It didn't look like 8 feet across to me.

It's not one of those super-wide parking lots you may see at the biggest lots in suburbs, but it wasn't the tiny old-school kind, either, where even compact cars barely fit.

So I'm thinking that the Aptera can't possibly be 8 feet wide, if the company assures us that it will fit in a normal parking space. This one at Petsmart was (in my opinion, of course) a very normal one -- I've seen the fat ones and the skinny ones, and this was definitely neither.

Hmm...

obsessively,
amy

[twelve33]

So, anyone living near here (http://www.flickr.com/photos/aptera/2315101408/) willing to go measure up those tiles in that location? :D

[fritzponds]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/aptera/2315101408/in/set-72157603722287420/There is a picture of the aptera on the hollywood walk of fame, does anyone know the size of those squares?

[butter]

man oh man I'd been staring at those Hollywood pics and trying for the life of me to figure out a more accurate estimate of the wheelbase width. but it's too vague and hard!

There's even one pic (if you scroll through em all) where the Aptera model is actually PARKED IN A LOT SPACE! But -- it's not IN It! it's totally staggered, about maybe 2-3 feet off the lines... and you can only see one of the tires clearly relative to the parking space line.. oh I"m blathering now but heh.. it's still fun in an agonizing way to speculate.

On the wikipedia page, it states (whether correctly or not) that the PROTOTYPE (not being sold) had a wheelbase of just 64 inches. Of course it also supposedly weighted just under 900 pounds.

ps i know iknow i have to stop with the wheelbase width obsession.. heh

[MegaAutoBit]

So, anyone living near here (http://www.flickr.com/photos/aptera/2315101408/) willing to go measure up those tiles in that location? :D


My parents live about twenty minutes from Hollywood. I can maybe jump over the hill, when I go down to see them during spring break in a few weeks.

[fritzponds]

It looks to be about 2.5 squares wide.

[Matthijs]

I think this images can get some indications on the size of the Aptera.

http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/9454/23143078853a312f313eozu7.jpg

http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/3760/23151655029f3db34153bnw7.jpg (http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/3760/23151655029f3db34153bnw7.jpg)

[futura]

So, I was checking this forum from my phone and saw the post AND I was near Hollywood AND had a tape measure in my car (yeah I'm one of those iPhone dorks, but I illegally parked my Boxster to get these measurements so I'm not a hopeless dweeb).

Anyway, the squares are exactly 36 inches. I tried to eyeball the location of the wheels but the sun was really bright and I couldn't see the Flickr postings all that well.

I set the tape down where I thought the wheels were planted (missed by a little). The tape is set to 80 inches (not counting the orange case). So I'm sticking with 7 ft max for the wheel track dimension (including the wheel pants).

Cheers.
9
10

[twelve33]

So, I was checking this forum from my phone and saw the post AND I was near Hollywood AND had a tape measure in my car (yeah I'm one of those iPhone dorks, but I illegally parked my Boxster to get these measurements so I'm not a hopeless dweeb).

Anyway, the squares are exactly 36 inches. I tried to eyeball the location of the wheels but the sun was really bright and I couldn't see the Flickr postings all that well.

I set the tape down where I thought the wheels were planted (missed by a little). The tape is set to 80 inches (not counting the orange case). So I'm sticking with 7 ft max for the wheel track dimension (including the wheel pants).

Cheers.


Brilliant! Just to verify, I took the original picture of the Aptera on that sidewalk, enhanced the areas around the front wheels to make the tires more visible, and drew in some guidelines:
11
The black lines are guidelines on the seams between the squares. The end points of the red line are where the tires touch the ground (I tried to center them on the tires, but now that I've looked at the picture a little longer I don't think I quite hit the contact patch, and the red line should actually be a few pixels shorter than it is in the picture).
It seems like the Aptera wasn't parked exactly straight on the pavement, but the difference is minimal. Measured on the red line, the squares are 163 pixels. The red line itself is 358 pixels. Given that the squares are 36 inches, we can calculate that the red line is 358*36/163, or 79 inches. Add some more to account for my misplacement of the red line and the width of the tires and the wheel pods, and it appears the Aptera is about 7 feet wide.
That is still pretty darn wide, but not as wide as I had originally calculated based on other pictures.

[butter]

OH MY GOD futura and twelve33 YOU GUYS ARE SO FREAKING AWESOME!!!!!

that's all i can muster right now, but YEAH YOU GUYS FREAKING ROCK SO HARD!

amy

[futura]

Incidently... using the "twelve33" technique, I estimate the wheel-base at about 9 ft and overall length to be 13ft 5", which is quite a bit less than the total length I was expecting (my car is 14' 2").
12

[Aptera#965]

I can't see the pictures :mad:

In any case thanks for the great work!

[twelve33]

Incidently... using the "twelve33" technique, I estimate the wheel-base at about 9 ft and overall length to be 13ft 5", which is quite a bit less than the total length I was expecting (my car is 14' 2").
12
Sounds about right. Based on other pictures I had guestimated (see my post that started this thread) that the Aptera is about 3 times as long as it is high, and 1.6 times as wide as it is high. So if it's 7 feet wide, that makes it about 4'4" tall (7/1.6), and 13"1' long (7/1.6*3).

[IanO]

7 feet wide is a good answer. That fits in my old garage, whereas 8 feet would be too wide. In fact, there is probably a standard single car garage door size that sets an upper limit to the width of their designs.

[KarenRei]

Nice to hear. I was expecting at least 7 1/2 feet. 7 feet is only six inches more than my Saturn if you measure it from mirror tip to mirror tip.

[davidrools]

These photos we're measuring...are they of the prototype mk0 or the typ1? It seems the vehicle has grown since the mk0. Also when trying to get a scale with the creeper/tiles in that one photo, remember that that photo is extremely skewed in perspective. You might, by some methods, conclude that the tiles are trapezoidal and 12" across on the bottom and 5" across in the rear!

On a more pragmatic note, once the vehicle is in a parking spot, the doors open upward and the cockpit width is much less than the front wheel width. So hopefully there will be minimal chance of a neighbor dinging your composite doors. And when parallel parking, I'm curious to see how well the no-rear-window/180° camera system works in that situation. All in all, I trust Aptera's engineers to keep these real world situations in mind and I don't expect there to be glaring design flaws when we finally get our hands on them!

[KarenRei]

That's clearly the Typ-1.

[3-4-me]

Also when trying to get a scale with the creeper/tiles in that one photo, remember that that photo is extremely skewed in perspective. You might, by some methods, conclude that the tiles are trapezoidal and 12" across on the bottom and 5" across in the rear!



I'm glad you brought this up. I think the twelve33 technique is brilliant for measuring wheel track. The measurement for length bugs me though.
I feel it is using a 2 dimensional method(track), to measure a 3 dimensional aspect(wheelbase).
I would have type this earlier but couldn't quite get it typed out.

On a more pragmatic note, once the vehicle is in a parking spot, the doors open upward and the cockpit width is much less than the front wheel width. So hopefully there will be minimal chance of a neighbor dinging your composite doors.

I think we'll be pleasantly surprised by how nice it is to move around. With the wheels ~a foot outside the car, that makes the body 5' or so wide.
It also tapers in at the back, so it shouldn't be a problem in a parking space and moving around it in the garage.

[aptera1213]

i love this photo....

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2310/2315174772_17e28825de.jpg


but it does bring up one concern about the wheelwell size....

cars could clip or hit the wheelwells if you park on a street like this...

drivers just won't be use to seeing a car body and leaving lots of extra space for the tire well (or wheel pants)

i hope aptera can make those wheel wells as close to the body as possible while still maintaining stability

g

[c0mp13x]

but it does bring up one concern about the wheelwell size....

cars could clip or hit the wheelwells if you park on a street like this...

drivers just won't be use to seeing a car body and leaving lots of extra space for the tire well (or wheel pants)

i hope aptera can make those wheel wells as close to the body as possible while still maintaining stability
Wow, excellent point aptera1213.

I haven't been worried about all the discussion on the width of the vehicle while driving, I just figured we'd all get use to it. After all, you'll be able to see those wheel pods (pants!) as you look out the front windows. Might be a bit of a challenge navigating that Starbucks drive-thru though!

As for Aptera bringing the pods closer to the vehicle, I think what we are seeing is what will be produced. The Typ-1 is too far along in the design cycle to change now. The Aptera folks are too busy scrambling to move and outfit their new 100k sq ft manufacturing facility to try and make major design changes now. Only my opinion though, I could be wrong...

As you point out, when parallel parked on the street, the pods will be a surprise for cars and bicyclists skirting by the width of the rear of the vehicle. There aren't any public pictures of the Aptera from straight down to show how much the pods stick out, but this photo comes close...


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2330/2332916299_2de9798168_o.jpg

:D

[LQUAN]

On a more pragmatic note, once the vehicle is in a parking spot, the doors open upward and the cockpit width is much less than the front wheel width. So hopefully there will be minimal chance of a neighbor dinging your composite doors. And when parallel parking, I'm curious to see how well the no-rear-window/180° camera system works in that situation. All in all, I trust Aptera's engineers to keep these real world situations in mind and I don't expect there to be glaring design flaws when we finally get our hands on them!

Aptera won't be the first car with no rear view mirrors. The new Mazda Taiki Concept sport car also featured no rear view mirrors.

On the note of dinging doors. Composite material can absorb shocks better than preformed metal. Composite meterial does not get deformed with an impression the way metal does. If Aptera used automotive paint, which I hope they do, paint marks from the other car can buff right out.

[KarenRei]

My Saturn measures about 6'6" from mirror tip to mirror tip. The Aptera measures 7" across at the front wheels. That's only 3" further out from the car's centerline than side mirrors would measure. I don't think people are going to be misestimating where they need to be by that much.

[twelve33]

I'm glad you brought this up. I think the twelve33 technique is brilliant for measuring wheel track. The measurement for length bugs me though.
I feel it is using a 2 dimensional method(track), to measure a 3 dimensional aspect(wheelbase).
I measured the width/height and length/height ratios from photos and video-stills where the vehicle was viewed straight-on from the front and sides, essentially providing a 2D-projected view, so they should be pretty accurate.

Other than that, I'm flattered to have a technique named after me :D

[3-4-me]

Incidently... using the "twelve33" technique, I estimate the wheel-base at about 9 ft and overall length to be 13ft 5", which is quite a bit less than the total length I was expecting (my car is 14' 2").
12
I measured the width/height and length/height ratios from photos and video-stills where the vehicle was viewed straight-on from the front and sides, essentially providing a 2D-projected view, so they should be pretty accurate.

Other than that, I'm flattered to have a technique named after me
My bad, I must have misunderstood. I was referring to Futura's post where it apears the length measurement is taken from the red line that is across a different plane.
It will go down in history as the "twelve33 technique":D

[GCustom]

Its cool Futura and twelve33 were building off each other this whole thread
so to use the technique Futura did you also had to use the twelve 33 technique
;)

[LQUAN]

From this picture on Autobloggreen

http://www.autobloggreen.com/photos/aptera-at-the-academy-awards/721934/

Aptera looks like it takes up the entire compact parking space. If you parked rear in like in this photo, it would be a potential for other cars to bump into the your front wheelpants when they are pulling in-out of the parking spaces next to you.

[Aptera#965]

Aptera looks like it takes up the entire compact parking space. If you parked rear in like in this photo, it would be a potential for other cars to bump into the your front wheelpants when they are pulling in-out of the parking spaces next to you.

The cause of most accidents (driving or otherwise) is because of people just not simply paying attention. I doubt that you'll have any issues with people not "paying attention" when they see your Aptera. Whether it be parked head in, backed-in, in the street against a curb.

With that kind of "visibility", the chances of your Aptera getting struck in a parking situation due to width is pretty unlikely IMO :)

[futura]

Just got an email back from Dave Kunz, who did the ABC7 piece here:
http://www.apteraforum.com/showthread.php?t=410
or here:
http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?se...ips&id=6039270

He was nice enough to respond to a few of my questions about Aptera size, noise, etc....FYI.



I didn’t actually get to drive the car, as the only prototype is worth a couple of million (per the company) so they couldn’t offer driving opportunities during their media event. <SNIP>

With that said, it seems there is a noise issue inside their prototype. Any time you enclose a large electric motor inside hollow shell-type structure, there will be some high-pitched noise. I spoke to my friend Chris Woodyard from USA Today, who had ridden in the car at an earlier time, and he did say it was a bit loud. The engineers say that they’re working on that issue for production cars which should be quieter. (And just so you know, some of the noise that you may have heard in our story was from the Super-Duty diesel pickup that we were doing the rolling shots from . I was riding in the passenger seat of the truck at the time, and I could barely hear the Aptera through the open window.)

As for size, the car is bigger than I had expected. It pretty much fills up a standard parking space, and while the front seats are “cozy,” there’s lots of storage space behind the seats. I’m pretty tall at about 6’-6”, and when I did sit in it and close the door, the first thing he remarked was that they were changing the seat design for the production car to offer a little more head and leg room. <SNIP>



Cheers.

[KarenRei]

Not too surprised about the noise. While I expect it to be nearly vibration-free in comparison to a gasoline or diesel car, I've never found electric motors operating at high speeds to be particularly silent. I hope they'll muffle it a bit better, because silence is always nice, but we'll just have to wait and see. I doubt it's going to be a big deal.

[LeeW]

Any definite or official word on the width yet?

I'd really like to know as I am about to demolish my garage and build a new one. I see an aptera someware in my future and I'd like to be able to put in my garage. A standard garage door size here is 7' or 7' 6". I could get the garage built with a 8' 6" door if I had to but as 8' 6" is non standard it would have to be custom made and will cost alot more.

[G-Jet]

I would guess that since there are regs that cover all aspects of auto size, they have met the requirements on them. The ABC guy said it was larger then he thought, and I have seen people state it is smaller then they thought.

G

[KarenRei]

Someone measured the tiles that the Aptera is seen standing on in one picture, and used that to determine the width. They came up with 7' even. But you're right, official word would be nice.

[Matthijs]

Someone measured the tiles that the Aptera is seen standing on in one picture, and used that to determine the width. They came up with 7' even. But you're right, official word would be nice.
We asked David Feeney from Aptera and this was his reply:

"I have submitted the moderator's requests to Chris Anthony(COO) but unfortunately we cannot provide the specific dimensions just yet. We should be disclosing these in the near future though."

We will be updated on this issue so we hope to bring you the news asap. :D

[3-4-me]

We asked David Feeney from Aptera and this was his reply:

"I have submitted the moderator's requests to Chris Anthony(COO) but unfortunately we cannot provide the specific dimensions just yet. We should be disclosing these in the near future though."

We will be updated on this issue so we hope to bring you the news asap. :D
This make me think they are still "entertaining the option" of changing the wheelbase. It seems like it would be pretty easy really. Maybe they're modeling how narrow they can make it.

[aptera1213]

actually what i would love, but what would add cost and weight and expense, is for the wheel arms and wheels to be able to raise and lower when at low speed...what i mean is, if you are parked or going less than 3 mph you hit a button and the car rises, the wheel arms push down and the wheels come closer and the car moves up...so the car is narrower by maybe 6 inches...then it will automatically lower as you go above 3 mph so the car widens and gets lower and is more stable and aerodynamic...

so parked it is narrow and a bit taller (easier to get into) and when coming into your garage you can hit the button and make it narrower (hench the 3 mph thing, you want to raise and narrow while moving, but only at slow speed...and you want the lowering to be automatic at speed so you don't forget, but you don't want it automatic at stopping as you don't want to waste energy at every stop light)...

it could even spread out and make the car even lower at high speed...ie...baseline is x inches, when parkiing you are x plus 3 inches, when going over 60 mph the car auto lowers to x minus 2 inches...or something like that

it won't happen, but it would be nice for us with single door garages...i have a two car garage, but with two single doors and a foot of brick between the two doors...i might have to re-do the whole front of my garage for the aptera

[Chupacabra]

The raising and lowering when parking is actually a really cool idea, at slow speeds it would generate less centrifucal force turning so you wouldn't need to worry about tip-overs as much. It'd probably add some price to the car for the hydraulics. Also looking at the front panels the travel directions are horiziontal not vertical; they'd have to go back and redesign quite a bit.

I emailed asking the dims of the Prototype

[Cobraphx]

I'm not worried about other people hitting the Aptera wheel spats while it's parked, that's inconvenient, but not life threatening for me. What I am worried about is the extreme width when in congested traffic. If you come up on the right side of another vehicle, the other driver won't be able to see where your left front wheel is unless you put a flag on the spat. If the other driver splits the distance between what he can see of the Aptera and the car he can clearly see on his left, you may be in potentially big trouble. Your car is at least 1.5-2 feet closer to him than what he can see. The taller the vehicle on your right, the worse the issue becomes.

This might cause the Aptera to be pretty nerve racking to drive in heavy traffic. Drivers are used to driving next to wide vehicles, but in every case I can think of, those vehicles are also huge and hard to miss. H1's, dump trucks, semi's, diesel duallies to name a few.

[Aptera1171]

The front wheels sticking out in congested traffic may get in the way of motorcyclists while they split lanes. I've had one or two of them gently bump my side mirrors, with no damage. If they bumped the wheel, things may get dangerous for them.

[Dolphyn]

I'm really glad to see this discussion taking place. I have been VERY concerned about the width issue from day one. The width is really the only thing I don't like about this car -- although I would prefer a shorter length too, especially when trying to find parking in San Francisco!

I don't want to drive something as wide as a Hummer (~7 ft), especially since I have poor depth perception. I currently drive a Geo Metro, only 5.2 feet wide and I've been known to knock off a rear view mirror while backing out of the garage. *oops*

It's worth noting that the Aptera FAQ specifies the vehicle will fit in a standard parking space. I guess that implies that it won't fit into a compact parking space.

I have wanted a plug-in electric car for many years. I reserved Typ-1h production slot #35 on 9/24/2007, but I think the Aptera may be too big for me so I'm also considering the Venture One (http://www.flytheroad.com/) and other alternatives. I'm definitely looking forward to seeing the future Aptera and Tesla dealerships in Menlo Park, just a 15-minute bike ride from my home. :-)

[3-4-me]

actually what i would love, but what would add cost and weight and expense, is for the wheel arms and wheels to be able to raise and lower when at low speed...what i mean is, if you are parked or going less than 3 mph you hit a button and the car rises, the wheel arms push down and the wheels come closer and the car moves up...so the car is narrower by maybe 6 inches...then it will automatically lower as you go above 3 mph so the car widens and gets lower and is more stable and aerodynamic...

so parked it is narrow and a bit taller (easier to get into) and when coming into your garage you can hit the button and make it narrower (hench the 3 mph thing, you want to raise and narrow while moving, but only at slow speed...and you want the lowering to be automatic at speed so you don't forget, but you don't want it automatic at stopping as you don't want to waste energy at every stop light)...

it could even spread out and make the car even lower at high speed...ie...baseline is x inches, when parkiing you are x plus 3 inches, when going over 60 mph the car auto lowers to x minus 2 inches...or something like that

it won't happen, but it would be nice for us with single door garages...i have a two car garage, but with two single doors and a foot of brick between the two doors...i might have to re-do the whole front of my garage for the aptera

Not a bad idea.
Might not be too difficult. The StreetDeck is reported to have vehicle height adjusting capabilities built in.

[Dolphyn]

Indeed, I just found this: "One of the key functions built-into StreetDeck as a DigitalMod with the Aptera was S.T.I.C. which is an acronym for suspension touch interface control. The software was designed to discretely monitor, position, and adjust the vehicle's ride height and angle of attack which is an integral aspect of attaining its fuel efficiency and ride quality."

Source: http://www.streetdeck.com/node/56

[Chupacabra]

Aptera did not release the dims of the prototype when I asked. Suffice to say they're probably aware of our concerns and are working on a solution, thus the grey area.

[Tachy]

If one hollywood tile is 36 inch, and there are 2,5 tiles used (!), the Aptera should be 90 inch wide = 2,28 m.

But you can park close to the next cars in a parking slot, because you don't have to leave space to get out of the car.

Otherwise its horrible, because the normal car drivers don't see the aptera's wheel-cases, when they're parking out.

[LQUAN]

The cause of most accidents (driving or otherwise) is because of people just not simply paying attention. I doubt that you'll have any issues with people not "paying attention" when they see your Aptera. Whether it be parked head in, backed-in, in the street against a curb.

With that kind of "visibility", the chances of your Aptera getting struck in a parking situation due to width is pretty unlikely IMO :)

The wheelpants are small and low, ~ 2.5ft, if I am pulling in-out of the parking space next to an Aptera I would not be able to see it. Especially here in Southern California where parking spaces are premium, most parking spaces are subcompacts and the drive paths are narrow, people will most likely have to turn the car to get in-out. Turning to get in-out without being able to see Aptera wheelpants is a pontial desaster, especially if they are driving SUVs. The rate of hit and run here in Southern California is very high. If you are looking to park your Aptera, your safest place are curbside parkings.

[Aptera1171]

Okay, so until the rest of the world gets used to us, we all carry orange cones and place them just in front and behind the wheelpods. We'll look like futuristic telephone/utility work vechicles. (Actually, my wife carries two of these in her trunk. We had to use them once in the past 4 years.) :D

[garygid]

Sounds like the most common repair is likely to be the wheel skirts,
with second place going to suspension repair (or replacement) and
re-alignment.

Perhaps some thought to a limp-in procedure (remove the skirt)
after front-suspension damage would save a lot of towing?

[KarenRei]

It seems strange to me, the notion that the Aptera is going to *not* stand out, to the degree that people will see it, just assume it's a normal car, and hit it's wheel pods. Because it seems to me that if someone sees an Aptera, they're going to be paying *close* attention.

Also, I'm still a bit fuzzy about how they'll be hard to see.

[G-Jet]

Fuzzy? Agreed KarenRei. They appear quite large and visible. They also have marker lights on the front and back.

G

[butter]

Sometimes I'll see those wide pickup trucks on the road: you know (forgive me for using lame words, I'm a non-car person), the things with those double tires? Like I have actually found myself waiting at a light behind one of them, and I note the slightly wider width and think to myself "Basically the Aptera should come close to that." I automatically know to be a tad bit more careful around these kinds of trucks that have the extra-wide doubled-up tires, just from general driving experience. So if I have these natural reactions, I assume many others do as well, and this would apply similarly to our wide friend the Aptera.

God, I WANT TO TOUCH ONE, NOW!!!

[garygid]

When a regular car is parking with the Aptera already parked
on the passenger side of the regular car, it might be hard for that
driver to miss the fact that the Aptera is in the adjoining space,
but it could be very difficult (or impossible) to see the Aptera's
front left wheel and skirt during most of the parking maneuver.

But then, "We shall see."

Collisions of the Aptera's right front wheel skirt (and possibly the
wheel itself) with curbs might also be a common occurrence, but
the owner of the Aptera will probably be VERY careful with this.

[KarenRei]

I'm not following how you reach the conclusion that it'd be hard to see the wheel pods. In what sort of car can't you see the front side wheels of the car you're parking next to in any situation, *let alone* when they're sticking out, making them more visible?

[Matthijs]

Well I am planning to get an Aptera to Europe. (Netherlands) But what concerns me a bit is the Aptera's 7 feet width. To get to Amsterdam for example I have to cross a bridge on the freeway that is under construction and closed for trucks. The maximum width is 2 meters. (6.56 feet) per lane. The normal width is 2.5 meters. (8.20 feet) So this means in the Aptera I will need to use both lanes to cross the half a mile bridge. :( Also driving in urban area's where streets are narrow concerns me a bit.
I really hope this will be no problem. I like to drive relaxed and comfortable. :)

[garygid]

Karen,
In many cars and most vans, one cannot see the curb (or other
low obstructions) on the passenger side (or in front of the car)
after one has gotten moderately close to the obstruction.

It is not that one never had the chance to observe that the wheel
is there (but sometimes people do not notice ... maybe too
busy looking inside the Aptera to notice the wheels).

Then, when the vehicle being parked is about halfway into
the space, and still trying to turn to straighten out, the
Aptera's front left wheel will often be hidden from the driver's
view by the "hood" of the car being parked. One often cannot
see a low-down object right next to one's own vehicle.

Likewise, when leaving, it is easy to forget that the down-low,
now-hidden obstruction is there. Look at the scuff marks on curbs.

The Aptera's wheels might be one foot (or less) from the other car.

[KarenRei]

In many cars and most vans, one cannot see the curb (or other low obstructions) on the passenger side (or in front of the car) after one has gotten moderately close to the obstruction.

But they still see them on the way in. To believe that the Aptera's wheel pods are likely to be hit, we'd have to accept that they'd

A) see an Aptera, and yet find it not worth paying attention to (very doubtful)
B) approach, and be so inattentive as to not see the wheel pods (very doubtful); or
C) see the wheel pods, but find them so non-noteworthy that they just forget about them.

I find this wildly implausible. I have little doubt that the extra attention to the car will make it *less* likely to get hit. Sort of how like people are afraid to park next to a sports car and are extra cautious around it.

[3-4-me]

I don't think it'll be a big problem, but there is always a chance.


I find this wildly implausible. I have little doubt that the extra attention to the car will make it *less* likely to get hit. Sort of how like people are afraid to park next to a sports car and are extra cautious around it.

Some people have a blatant disreguard for others property.
Then there are the totally oblivious. The thing that drove that home to me was:
I had a neighbor once that was leaving our culdesac. She made a right turn onto the adjoining street, kept turning, jumped the curb, and traveled 30' right into the house.:eek:
It never ceases to amaze me how bad some people drive.

Then there's the people that are too busy to notice their surroundings. Everyday I see someone texting, talking on phone, or whatever while driving. These will probably be the ones to worry about.

[garygid]

I am not saying that they will not see the wheel skirts,
or at least have the opportunity to do so. I am suspecting
that some people will misjudge the clearance after the skirts
disappear from sight.

Also, when returning to their car, they may tend to forget
the Aptera's "outrigger" wheels, which they can no longer
see from their driver's seat.

Since the Aptera's "body" will appear to be "far" from them, they
might feel that they have more clearance than they actually have.

[LQUAN]

Even when most drivers aware that Aptera wheelpants are low and sticking out, they are probably don't have intention of hitting them, but they most likely will hit them because they are not EASY TO SEE. If I am driving a SUV or van, I will not be able to see to judge my manuever correctly to avoid hitting the wheelpant of an Aptera parking on my RIGHT. An even after I brushed it, I would not feel a thing, because it is not metal and the fact is that I am driving a 4000lbs SUV!

It would not be minor as if the other guy just damage your fender. You can drive home with a damage fender, but you will not be able to drive home with a damage wheel assembly! And the repair won't be as cheap as repairing a fender. :)

[KarenRei]

I think people are overestimating how easy these pods will be to damage, and how easy they'll be to hit.

Hit: I really doubt that even the worst driver isn't going to pay attention to something as standoutish as the Aptera. If they're paying enough attention to see an empty parking space, they're paying enough attention to see the Aptera. And I can't imagine them seeing an Aptera and deciding "normal car". I can't imagine anyone seeing the wheel pods and thinking "whatever" and forgetting about them in a matter of two seconds. I can't imagine someone losing sight of the pods before they're all lined up, and even if they weren't, I can't imagine them staying away out of undue caution around that crazy-looking spaceship-car for which moments ago they could see wheels jutting out into their path. I really can't picture any of it.

Damage: We're talking about vehicles moving <5mph versus a vehicle that's light (so able to move out of the way) and two (tubular steel?) connections to the pod, enough to support the entire front end of the vehicle in any situation (including shocks). And 5mph is pessimistic, assuming someone darting in quickly; 2mph is more reasonable. If these pods can support a 1500lb vehicle hitting a bump at highway speeds, how can they not support a gentle bump at 2-5 mph?

I really, really don't see this as a problem. I could be wrong, but I just can't picture any of this being problematic.

[garygid]

You are right, it is not likely that they will forget seeing the wheel skirts
when parking, but some people who are not so good with spacial
relationships could misjudge after the skirt is out of sight.

Then, after several hours of shopping, they could get back into
the car, and that "little" white "thing" is still next to you. But, as
far as you can see (cannot see the wheel skirt), there is "a lot" of
clearance. Then, ... there is a bigger chance of collision, as they
back out of the parking space, trying to turn as much as they
can to back into the isle between the rows of cars.

But, you are right, it should not happen often. Possibly more than
with a "regular" car parked on the right. We will have to wait to see.

I suspect that you have never backed over a motorcycle that
was parked next to you ... which is very commendable.

[LQUAN]

Damage: We're talking about vehicles moving <5mph versus a vehicle that's light (so able to move out of the way) and two (tubular steel?) connections to the pod, enough to support the entire front end of the vehicle in any situation (including shocks). And 5mph is pessimistic, assuming someone darting in quickly; 2mph is more reasonable. If these pods can support a 1500lb vehicle hitting a bump at highway speeds, how can they not support a gentle bump at 2-5 mph?

Keep in mind that the wheel assemblies only have UP-DOWN movements - not back-forth movements. A hit by another car is likely to force back-forth movement. This means misalignment or breakage if worse.

Edit: Fixed quote

[3-4-me]

I think the wheel skirt will break and cause a large crunching noise before there is any damage to the suspension. Hopefully at least.:D
There looks to be a lot of room in front and behind the wheel (crumple zone, if you will).

[oracle]

Check out the RENAULT ZOOM concept car, it can shorten its wheelbase for parking. Wouldn't it be cool if the Aptera could bring its wheels closer to the body at low speeds and then spread them out at higher speeds ?

[Cobraphx]

The maximum width of a Semi is 8 feet 6 inches wide (102"), the Hummer H1 is 7 feet 2.5 inches wide (86.5"), the H2 is 6 feet 9 inches wide (81"). If the Aptera is 7 to 8 feet wide (wider than an H1 but narrower than a Semi truck), it's gonna be a bit nerve racking to drive in heavy traffic. From the Hollywood pictures it looks like the Aptera is just a bit over 7 feet wide, or nearly as wide or wider than a hummer H1. Keep in mind for comparison's sake that a 2008 Honda Civic Sedan is 5 feet 9 inches wide (69").

It's tough to underestimate how wide a H1 is, it's huge and it's width is kinda in-your-face. But driving an Aptera that's even wider? From the side it's width will be deceiving I think, due to the extreme width being so close to the ground. If an Aptera is on the right of a traditional car, there is no visual clue for the traditional car driver to tell how close he is to the Aptera's left front wheel, he just can't see it.

I don't trust the average driver to do the right thing every time I park (or for that matter drive) next to them in my normal car. There happens to be a large part of our driving population that has a very short attention span when it comes to parking. For instance, my ex wife bumped the car next to her while backing out of a space at least once that I know of. She was pretty safe most of the time, but I wouldn't trust her next to my Aptera in the parking lot, especially if she had a passenger she was talking to, or on her cellphone. Even worse if the Aptera is backed into a space and she was pulled in forward.

I've seen people more than once hit the short concrete poles on the right side of some parking spaces when pulling out. Had a friend do that, even after he made note of it before getting back in. But he was talking to his passenger when he started backing out and totally forgot about the pole. If it had been an Aptera next to him, good bye front wheel skirt and rim. These types of things tend to happen more often when people park by pulling in from the right, and backing out to the left, they tend to misjudge how close they were on the right. Or they are planning on backing one way and still have the wheel cocked the other way from when they pulled in.

Doesn't mean that every Aptera out there will get the front wheel clipped, but I'd wager the incidents of body damage will be higher than average due to the width (if it stays 7+ feet). On the positive side, replacing the wheel spat will be cheaper than repainting a normal car's door or fender. And the Aptera should never get door dings.

[Hybrid762]

Big enough to travel 300mpg. Can't wait.

[Chupacabra]

The wheels appear to stick out pretty far, but from dead on the cabin looks small when it comes to shoulder to shoulder room. I think overall it will be less wide then we think it is

[JakesOnline]

My estimate for the width is 7 3/4 feet.

http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/4024/apterawidthem8.jpg

[Cobraphx]

Looks pretty close to what I thought the Type-1 was width wise from that and the Popular Mechanics photo.

Maybe they will come out with a Type-.7 that's about the width of a normal car. ;)

[esmith]

You're seeing front wheels at an angle, and it makes the car look wider than it is, but you're close.

Distance between wheel centers (see those little bumps?) 6.5 feet, give or take an inch.
Wheel width 165 mm = 0.55 ft.
Wheel covers add 2-3 inches on each side.
Total width around 7.5 ft or 90 inches.

By comparison, Ford Focus is 78.5 in, Dodge Grand Caravan is 88.5 in, Hummer H1 is 101 in.

the Hummer H1 is 7 feet 2.5 inches wide (86.5"), the H2 is 6 feet 9 inches wide (81"). If the Aptera is 7 to 8 feet wide (wider than an H1 but narrower than a Semi truck), it's gonna be a bit nerve racking to drive in heavy traffic. From the Hollywood pictures it looks like the Aptera is just a bit over 7 feet wide, or nearly as wide or wider than a hummer H1. Keep in mind for comparison's sake that a 2008 Honda Civic Sedan is 5 feet 9 inches wide (69").

You're missing one thing - all these numbers are without mirrors - on a normal car or truck side mirrors add around 10 inches.

[KarenRei]

JakesOnline: That's distorting the perspective; you need to stay on the ground. The lines all need to be measured on the ground, like Twelve33 did. It's 358 pixels versus 153 pixels, i.e. 79". The tire tread is only 5" across, and the fairing only about 2" past the end of the tires tread (check out the closeup of the turned wheelpods on the grass for a good example). 2"*2 + (5"/2)*2 = 9". 79" + 9" = 88" = 7'4". So, a couple more inches than Twelve33 was assuming, but not much.

[Cobraphx]

You're missing one thing - all these numbers are without mirrors - on a normal car or truck side mirrors add around 10 inches.

Right.... and if someone hits a Hummer's mirror, not a big deal sort of a little saftey margin before body contact for people getting too close. In the Aptera, if someone gets too close it's a very big deal. The widest part of the Aptera is that troublesome wheel and it's skirt. Still wider at that point than the same point on the Hummer. It's the Achilles heel of the Aptera design.

[Ardie3301]

The link below has a photo of our favorite 3-wheeler:

http://www.wired.com/cars/futuretransport/magazine/16-01/ff_100mpg?currentPage=4
(Its also attached below, should the link someday disappear.)

It appears to be sitting on square rubber tiles.
I'm gonna count it as 7-1/2 "squares" wide.

If they are 12"x12", then the width of the car is closer to 7'-6" (!)
At 10" x 10", it would be about 6'-3".
At 8" x 8" (and I don't think those tiles are that small), then it is about 5'-0".

I'm gonna assume that the body is at *least* 48" wide at its widest, and with the outriggers sticking out about 1-1/2 feet on each side, that would make a total width of 7 feet, justifying the 7'-6" guesstimate.

-- Ardie

[aptera1213]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3285/2296215137_9b7e191f32_o.jpg

close to a full 8 squares....i hope the squares are 10 inches

[esmith]

Right.... and if someone hits a Hummer's mirror, not a big deal sort of a little saftey margin before body contact for people getting too close. In the Aptera, if someone gets too close it's a very big deal. The widest part of the Aptera is that troublesome wheel and it's skirt. Still wider at that point than the same point on the Hummer. It's the Achilles heel of the Aptera design.

I think there are two distinct concerns, 1) someone hitting your wheel skirt in motion, 2) problems with parking. My wife drives a minivan that's around 7'6" between tips of mirrors. I never felt that it is "too wide" to be safely driven on highways. Traffic lanes are commonly 11' or 12'.

Parking a vehicle that's 7'6" between front wheel skirts is very different from parking a vehicle that's 7'6" between tips of mirrors. You can probably squeeze an Aptera into a compact parking spot between two "conventional" cars and you'll have enough room left to get out of the car. Whereas on a minivan you wouldn''t even be able to open the door.

[Cobraphx]

I think there are two distinct concerns, 1) someone hitting your wheel skirt in motion, 2) problems with parking. My wife drives a minivan that's around 7'6" between tips of mirrors. I never felt that it is "too wide" to be safely driven on highways. Traffic lanes are commonly 11' or 12'.

Parking a vehicle that's 7'6" between front wheel skirts is very different from parking a vehicle that's 7'6" between tips of mirrors. You can probably squeeze an Aptera into a compact parking spot between two "conventional" cars and you'll have enough room left to get out of the car. Whereas on a minivan you wouldn''t even be able to open the door.

And when that person parked to the left backs out, they can't see the wheel that's inches away from thier front fender like they can the mirror on your minivan. I've seen plenty of mirrors hit in parking lots, it would just suck if the contact was a $200 wheel skirt and not a $50 mirror that folds when struck by something.

[evolutionmovement]

Except that wheel skirt is also 3 feet further forward. I don't think I've ever seen anyone cut the wheel before backing out of a space. Usually they go straight back before turning and at that point they should be well clear.

[Sloopy]

This poster says the little floor tiles are 12". And, my estimate of 7' 8 1/3" from outer edges of the wheel fairings, is the absolute minimum overall width. I think it is actually a bit wider. I still have that $1 to bet.

[Cobraphx]

Except that wheel skirt is also 3 feet further forward. I don't think I've ever seen anyone cut the wheel before backing out of a space. Usually they go straight back before turning and at that point they should be well clear.

What if you pull through, or back into a parking space (as several of us do every day at work, or the store, mall, bank)? Now the widest point of your wide Aptera is now 6-7 feet further back than the Hummer mirror... In that case you expect someone to hit the skirt? How about using the drive-up ATM, or merging on the highway, or driving through construction zones?

Is it that everyone thinks the Aptera is the perfect width and would prefer it to stay that way? I mean lots of nice attempts at justifying it. In the case of the Humer the width adds to it's side hill stability in off road terrain. The Aptera's width really only hampers it's primary function as a commuter car. I really can't see the 7+ foot width being and advantage in traffic. It hampers lane discipline (especially around inattentive, cellphone talking commuters in the lane adjacent) , obstacle avoidance, overtaking bicycle lane occupants, parking and probably some other facets I can't think of off the top of my head.

If it were 75 inches wide with the wheel skirts tucked up against the body, I wouldn't have concerns about the width and the wheel skirts. But the Type-1 isn't designed that way.

[Sloopy]

Speaking for myself, and perhaps others, the greater the width, the less I like it, but probably not enough to make me change my mind about wanting to own an Aptera. Hoping that the floor tiles are 10" and not 12" expresses a hope that the width is less, rather than more. And dream on about $200 wheel fairings, ... probably more like $1000, or more.

[KarenRei]

The Aptera's width really only hampers it's primary function as a commuter car.

It's all, 100%, about one word:

Stability.

The Aptera is a three wheeler that at points comes rather high off the ground. It needs a wide wheelbase to compensate. If you don't care about stability in your ride, you're in the extreme minority.

And really, the Hollywood Walk of Fame pic is the one you need to be estimating with, since that is the *only* pic where any physical measurements have actually been made (with a tape measurer, no less), and the estimates there come out to about 7'4".

[evolutionmovement]

I'll pick real world stability and handling over speculative fears about other drivers and the real potential of flipping over. Parking - just pull in if you're afraid of backing. I search parking garages for the space next to support columns to give me extra room for my car. With the Aptera, I could get even closer to the column by tucking the front wheel in behind it. It just takes an extra minute to walk sometimes and no, I'm not afraid I'd forget it was there when I backed out. You can get hit anywhere by anyone at any time. You can even fall in the bathtub. I don't let either fear keep me from staying clean or getting where I need to go. I've driven a box truck through Boston, the Aptera will be easy.

[aptera1213]

my problem is i have two single doors on my garage...each 7' 8", so if the wheel wells are much more than 7 feet i can't garage it...and i like to garage my car to protect it from the sun and such...i guess i could spend several thousand to redo my garage, but i hope to avoid that

[JimmyDreams]

Is it that everyone thinks the Aptera is the perfect width and would prefer it to stay that way? I mean lots of nice attempts at justifying it. In the case of the Humer the width adds to it's side hill stability in off road terrain. The Aptera's width really only hampers it's primary function as a commuter car. I really can't see the 7+ foot width being and advantage in traffic. It hampers lane discipline (especially around inattentive, cellphone talking commuters in the lane adjacent) , obstacle avoidance, overtaking bicycle lane occupants, parking and probably some other facets I can't think of off the top of my head.


The width is for stability.

Will it take some getting used to? Yes. Will there be issues in parking lots? Maybe. Are there issues with EVERY car in parking lots? Yes. Does every vehicle has varied concerns somewhat specific to that vehicle (blind spots/size/turning radius/etc? Yes. Is the Aptera any different in this regard? No.

Is it possible that some people are getting worked up over something they have ZERO first hand experience with? Absolutely.

I will wait until I can kick the tires and take it for a test drive and hear from others that have actually DRIVEN the car before I'll worry about what MIGHT be...

JimmyD

[Cobraphx]

It's all, 100%, about one word:

Stability.

If you don't care about stability in your ride, you're in the extreme minority.

And really, the Hollywood Walk of Fame pic is the one you need to be estimating with, since that is the *only* pic where any physical measurements have actually been made (with a tape measurer, no less), and the estimates there come out to about 7'4".

I do care about stability, but would hope the design can be narrower than a Hummer to achieve it.

I think you mean the most conservative optimistic estimates come out to 7'4". From this thread we have...


And, my estimate of 7' 8 1/3" from outer edges of the wheel fairings, is the absolute minimum overall width. I think it is actually a bit wider.

If they are 12"x12", then the width of the car is closer to 7'-6" (!)

My estimate for the width is 7 3/4 feet.

If one hollywood tile is 36 inch, and there are 2,5 tiles used (!), the Aptera should be 90 inch wide = 2,28 m.
we can calculate that the red line is 358*36/163, or 79 inches
.go from the edge of tile one to "almost" the length of tile 8...if 12 inches, the width is just under 8 feet...make it 7 feet 9 inches...
I think that the Typ-1 must be about 8-feet wide.
Including the wheel shrouds, the total width of the vehicle looks to be ~7.5'.

We have 2 photos with good evidence of the width. The photo from the front has smaller fixed widths for reference, less perspective distortion. That makes it better for estimating the width. The photo from the rear is less accurate for estimating width, but gives a good general width in the 7.5+ foot range due to the measuring tape. Because the rear photo gives really good evidence that the tiles in the first image are 12" (they can't be 10" tiles as shown by the second photo) we can use the front one to nail it down. The 2 photos together would give us somewhere between 7.5 feet and 8 feet.

I know that's not what we want it to be, but wishing it so isn't going to change the reality of it.

[futura]

The width is for stability.
...
Is it possible that some people are getting worked up over something they have ZERO first hand experience with? Absolutely.
JimmyD

It's reasonable to get "worked up" over it since it's obviously a concern among many current and future buyers and we have no experience driving a three-wheel "outrigger" platform.
Like anything else, stability can be traded-off against safety, handling etc. There is some sensitivity function of stability based on CG, velocity and the triangle formed between the three wheels; i.e. does narrowing the wheel track by 2 inches have a .1% affect on stability or a 10% effect? It could be that Aptera is not releasing the dimensions because they are still evaluating this. I can imagine that even at this late date adjusting the wheel-track by a few inches is possible without dramatic schedule increase. An earlier news report (not sure which) mentioned the turn radius was quite wide and Fambro said the steering was not finalized.
In the meantime, it's good for Aptera to see what our worries are and hopefully they'll address most of them ASAP.
Cheers.

[Cobraphx]

I do like the falling in the bathtub analogy... of course we can fall in the bathtub, but the width of the Aptera is like coating the bathtub with Crisco before you step in, it increases the chances of falling just a bit.

If we take a look at this pic (http://www.autobloggreen.com/photos/aptera-at-the-academy-awards/721934/), why didn't they park in a single space? Maybe because it would clearly show just how wide it really was.
http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.autobloggreen.com/media/2008/03/aptera-at-grammys-8.jpg

[Sloopy]

Three cheers for the optimism that the width can be reduced before production, and that Aptera will take it under advisement.

[APTERA 2356]

some people forget that there buying a product not designing it.

Since I have no idea what the aptera will be like I'll wait for my test drive and make my mind up then.

If aptera is'nt the car for you take your deposit back and move me up the list.

[Sloopy]

We're just enjoying our free time.

[NeilBlanchard]

Hello,

The overlap of each front wheel is almost exactly the same on both sides:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v724/NeilBlanchard/ApteraWidth-3-1.png
The biggest distortions here are the fact the the front of each wheel fairing is closer to the camera than the parking lines, and I think that the wheels are turned a little to it's left -- which throws off my centerline (mirror) line; which I determined by the outside edges of the headlights...I've also assumed that the parking spaces are 8'-0".

[garygid]

I would like to preserve the extra stability of the wider vehicle.
I suspect that a 7' 6" width would go into most single-car garage
openings. However, a 7' 8" width would not go into mine.

I have taken the "parked" picture and estimated the position of
the outside of the hidden skirt by measuring from the outer edge
of the headlight to the outside of the "visible" skirt.

Then, I moved the car over to center it in the parking spot, and
it looks like the outside of the skirts actually go completely over
the "inner" yellow lines, and may even "touch" the outer yellow lines.

Of course, this is just another approximation, but it does appear
that the Aptera, as shown in this (maybe compact) parking space,
is likely to be a bit of a "space-hog".

128

[JakesOnline]

They could narrow stance if they lowered the car. Too late in the game for a major geometry change like that IMO.

My Aptera width estimate: 93 inches
Ford Explorer width: 72 inches

The widest parts are only a couple feet off the ground.

I agree with Karen that people will be more aware of an unusual car, but you cannot really on that.

Good luck squeezing through traffic to make a right turn.

[KarenRei]

FYI, the 7'4" is a median estimate, not a "low" estimate. The low estimates were "under 80 inches" and "79 inches plus a couple more".. Seven feet is 84 inches.

The photo from the front has *no* measurements. There is precisely one -- *1* -- photo that we have physical measurements on, and that is the Hollywood Walk of Fame photo. We have a very precise line going rigth across the ground, directly from where the two tires touch the ground at their centers, and this is Twelve33's. There's almost no perspective distortion because this is measured right along the tiles, and the Aptera is only at the slightest of angles off of straight. The line comes out to 79". How this could possibly be in dispute, I have no idea. We know how wide the tread on the wheels is -- precisely 5". These are the stats for these tires (Bridgestone Potenza RE92s); for them to be wrong, Bridgestone would have to be lying. We have ample pictures of closeups of the wheelpods, and given the width of the tread, it's apparent that the wheel pod sticks out another 2" or so beyond the edge of the tread, give or take half an inch. That's an extra 4 1/2 inches on either side of Twelve33's line. 79 +4.5*2 = 88" = 7'4".

Where is there dispute of any of these facts that doesn't involve perspective tricks or "let's assume that this object in the photo is X width without any measurements of it"? Heck, now we're even not only getting estimates of the width from photos that we don't have any measurements in, but ones that you *cant' even see both wheels* in, and which has almost guaranteed perspective distortion since the parking space is measured from the termination of the lines (the widest part), while we have no evidence that the Aptera's wheels are at this distance. And to top it all off, the parking lot is quite visibly not flat.

Why, exactly, aren't we sticking with the only case that we have *physical*, tape-measurer measurements for, on perfectly flat ground? :P

If this isn't resolved by this evening, I'll load up the Hollywood photo and use Hugin to perspective-correct the tile (the Aptera is at a very slight angle), so there should be absolutely no dispute then. Here's an example of perspective correction with Hugin:

http://hugin.sourceforge.net/tutorials/perspective/en.shtml

They could narrow stance if they lowered the car

Then they'd be subject to more ground turbulence, which hurts your drag coeff.

[Aptera3390]

It is definetely too wide for practical use. Sure we can get used to it, just like Hummer drvers do now, but I think most people want a carefree car that they don't have to worry about. This makes it inconvenient for most. I currently have a Pontiac Bonneville which is a wide car, and it barely fits in the parking space at work. I can barley squeeze out of the door between me and the next car. I measured the distance between the parking lines, and it is 5 feet 10 inches for the inside lines, and 1 foot 5 inches between spaces, so 7 feet 3 inces total. This car will be exceeding the entire width by at least 3 inches. Granted these are narrower than most, but I have seen similarly narrow parking at several shopping areas around town. Sure you can take up two parking spaces, but I can see the key marks accumulating on the side of the car now from other irate car parkers.

Single car garage parking is also a deal buster. By the time I get mine, Toyota or GM or Think or Zenn may be available, so I may need to change my mind.

I thought this would be a great car for the future, but now I'm not so sure. :( I guess we will just have to see if they have some new tricks up their sleeves before the production cars roll out. Don't get me wrong. I love the futuristic styling, but if I have to drive it around like I'm on eggshells, this reduces its appeal to me.

[KarenRei]

If you expect perfection, you'll never get it. All of your "replacements" are less as half as efficient, which means twice as big battery packs to maintain for the same amount of range, double the charging time, plus twice the electricity consumpion and associated environmental damage. Toyota is a parallel and is incapable of operating in EV-only mode, meaning that roughly half your energy will come from gasoline rather than just a small fraction of it. The price of the Volt will depend on the subsidy level, but the natural price is well over $40k. The Th!nk pretends to have low prices, but they don't like to mention the fact that they're doing battery rental, and the real cost over the time you "own" your car is tens of thousands more. ZENN is probably going to be vaporware, but we can hope. Both ZENN and Th!nk City have poor claimed performance stats.

You'll never get everything; that's just how these things go.

Back on the subject of width -- here's the width of various vehicles with the driver door open:

http://www.bikexprt.com/bikepol/facil/lanes/doorwidth.htm

Remember that the width of the Aptera is the absolute width; the door opens within the area cut out by its wheel pods. So, if it's 88", it's 88" with both doors open. Even the person in the car next to you opening their doors will have a moderate amount of "free" space to open their doors into without hitting your door. Compare that 88" to any other vehicles in the chart.

[JakesOnline]

The green and red lines have the same width.
The blue and white lines have the same width.

http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/7171/apterwidth2es1.gif

[KarenRei]

And the width of the space is unknown because these things are painted by hand. And the ground is visibly uneven. And the distance into the parking space and the angle the Aptera is at is unknown. The latter two are especially major distortions.

Why would you use a photo like this when you have one on flat ground with physical measurements taken, where you can look at directly between where the tires hit the ground, with the Aptera only at the slightest of angles relative to the tiles (the Hollywood pic)?

[Aptera3390]

I'm not looking for perfection, but if they were to compromise the design a little, so maybe it gets 100 miles instead of 120 to the charge, or 100MPG instead of 130MPG, it would still be a big hit. If they could shrink the width by a foot and lower it correspondingly to compensate, I'm sure it could still get over 100MPG. That's just a gut feeling on my part, since I have no way of simulating it. The problem is, they are trying to achieve the perfection on the MPG front without regard to real world practicality. Having a car is all about the freedom to go where you want to go. If you have to constantly hunt for a suitable parking space, or get irate responses to compromised parking solutions, that reduces it's appeal. If this was a fancy sports car only used for joyriding, that would not be an issue, but it is being sold as a commuter car. I can't park it in the parking spaces provided at work without taking up two spaces. That is a fact.

Hopefully for Aptera, there will be enough buyers that don't have unique parking and road way issues that they will sell all they can make. I wish them well. I just feel that if it comes out as even 7 feet 4 in, I will be dissapointed.

[garygid]

Jakes...
You got the same result that I did, but you did it
quite a bit more cleanly, and easier to understand.

We should note that we are not "measuring" a real
production-prototype Aptera vehicle which could differ.
Thanks

[KarenRei]

Aptera3390: Fair enough. But do remember that you won't be "squeezing" out of anything. If your wheels fit into any space, even if they go over the line a bit, your door can go all the way open, and the people in the cars next to you can still get in and out of theirs. The width issue is probably why Aptera chose these scarab/butterfly doors. Compared to any car with just the driver's door open, the Aptera is unusually *narrow*.

[evolutionmovement]

It will also be easier to make turns than a wide 4-wheeler since the rear bodywork is narrower and the central wheel allows a curb on a corner to be passed almost to where the rear differential on a 4-wheel car would be. As long as something else isn't blocking your lane and the curb isn't mountable, it should be as maneuverable as a regular car, perhaps more so once you learn to use its unique configuration to advantage. That is if the steering angle allows for a decent turning circle as the narrower rear can only do so much. Not being restricted by wheel wells, it shouldn't be too much a problem to allow for the movement unless there's some issue with the tie rods' angles.

[Aptera3390]

That is true, but if I park it perfectly centered, I will still go over the line on both sides, and anyone who tries to squeeze in next to me will be within inches of my skirt. If I find the parking lot almost filled up already and there are only single spaces available, I won't be able to even squeeze in even if I am careful. What happens if I park first, and someone parks next to me but is slightly diagonal to me, so they clear my skirt in the front, but now I need to back out, and since they are closer to me in the rear (being diagonal), I can't clear the space without scraping. I can see a lot of scenarios where this is not going to be convenient for everyday use. I could back in, so they have to clear my skirt, and this may be the best solution, but essentially I now become the object of scorn for "hogging" the parking spaces. I don't think this will be an issue at work, but going to various shopping centers it may, since people don't know me there. Also, my wife might want to use it, and she has problems with parking now with a much narrower car. This just worries me.


Aptera3390: Fair enough. But do remember that you won't be "squeezing" out of anything. If your wheels fit into any space, even if they go over the line a bit, your door can go all the way open, and the people in the cars next to you can still get in and out of theirs. The width issue is probably why Aptera chose these scarab/butterfly doors. Compared to any car with just the driver's door open, the Aptera is unusually *narrow*.

[esmith]

There is precisely one -- *1* -- photo that we have physical measurements on, and that is the Hollywood Walk of Fame photo.

We also have a few photos of the rear end of the vehicle, and we know for a fact that California motorcycle license plates are 7" by 4". That gives us width of the rear "bumper" - around 58" ( 4' 10" ). Unfortunately, there are no good pictures without perspective distortion that could allow us to deduce total width from that.

We know how wide the tread on the wheels is -- precisely 5".

To be exact, 165/65R16 tires are precisely 165 mm wide and 165 mm is equal to 6.496".

[JakesOnline]

My conclusion is, that sucker is wide! Anyway, I still want one, although I wish it was a bit less expensive.

[garygid]

Tread width (the part that contacts the ground) is 5 inches, but
the width of the tire at the sidewalls (also called "section width",
about 3 or so inches off the ground) is 6.5 inches on a 5 inch rim.
Apparently 6.7 inches wide on a 5.5 inch rim.

Apparently the wheel rim width can be 4.5 to 6.0 inches for this tire.

----
Tire Specifications:
Bridgestone Potenza RE92, size 165/65SR14

(tire section = 165 mm wide, 165 x 0.65 = 107.25 mm high)
14" rim (355.6 mm)

Load Index 78 = 937lbs (425kg) per tire
Speed Rating “S” = 112mph (180kph) 78S SL
Treadwear: 260(%)
Traction: A (Above 0.47 0.35)
Temperature: B (Between 100 to 115 mph)

937 lbs. max load
44 psi max pressure
9/32" tread depth
13 lbs. weight
4.5-6" rim range
5" standard rim (-> 5.5" rim)
6.5" section width (-> 6.7" approx)
5" tread width
22.5" diameter

Traction Grades: on Asphalt, Concrete:
AA Above 0.54 0.41
A Above 0.47 0.35
B Above 0.38 0.26
C Less Than 0.38 0.26

Temperature Grades:
A Over 115 mph
B Between 100 to 115 mph
C Between 85 to 100 mph

926 rev per mile

[NeilBlanchard]

Hello,

Folks, it is only the compact spaces that will be a challenge: the standard parking space is 9'-0" wide.

[Aptera3390]

The problem is, it seems most places I go to around town are more compact size then not. Maybe this is more common in San Diego. I haven't really paid alot of attention to it before but I have noticed it more when I drive my Pontiac which I drive less and less because it is a gas guzzler and hard to park, and how hard it is sometimes to squeeze into a space around here. The larger big name shopping centers tend to have bigger spaces, but the smaller no name shopping centers tend to have compact spaces. There's not a lot of street parking except in the downtown area.

Hello,

Folks, it is only the compact spaces that will be a challenge: the standard parking space is 9'-0" wide.

[garygid]

Wikipedia says, for "Parking Spaces":

"Common angled or perpendicular parking stalls are 8 to 9 feet (2.4-2.75 m)
wide by 16 to 18 feet (4.9-5.5 m) long. Some spaces can be as narrow as
7.5 feet and as wide as 10 feet."

I did not find any sizes for "normal" parking spaces in the Vehicle Code.

I suspect that the real-life sizes often depend upon the line painter's
instructions from the parking area owner, to squeeze one more space
into a row of spaces, or not.

Some spaces have single-line markings, and some have double-lines.

[sk8ndad]

At least around here, the size of the space does not seem to stop people who don't fir to park there :-) I don't know if you realize it, but the Navigator and Excursion are compact cars.

[KarenRei]

If I find the parking lot almost filled up already and there are only single spaces available, I won't be able to even squeeze in even if I am careful

Only if everyone else is 7'4" wide, too. Otherwise, there's room on each side of their vehicles.

Don't get me wrong -- I sympathize with your situation. There are very few compact car spaces around here, but apparently that's not the case where you work, and despite how it may appear at first glance, the Aptera is not a "compact car". But I'm just pointing out that so long as the wheels fit, at all, even over the lines, there's no problem getting in and out, nor with other people getting in and out of their vehicles.

I hope things work out for you, and you'll find some EV that meets your needs, Aptera or not. :)

[Cobraphx]

Whether we take my 7'9" estimate, or Karen's 7'4" it's exceptionally wide. No way around it, hopefully they are working to make the production version narrower. Maybe they are having problems with that since we are 4 months into the "beginning production" phase and they are still withholding a width measurement. They are obviously worried about the extreme width, or they would have allowed someone to publish the width by now. It's clearly an issue, but far from a show stopper. GM sold plenty of H1's (especially to the military), and every Aptera produced will find a home. But I doubt anyone will consider the 7+ foot width a desirable feature and buy it because it's so wide.

I'm not worried about being trapped in the Aptera due to a car parking too close, I'm concerned with actually getting in and out of spaces damage free. It only takes one inattentive or inconsiderate driver to trap you in a space or damage your fender. If the Aptera stays 7+feet wide, the chances of that happening are MUCH higher than if you are parking a Mini Cooper. Also if the wheel covers turn with the front tires, the Aptera will get even wider. Maybe 10" or more in a tight turn like when parking or doing a U-turn. Just like not having a pic of the Aptera parked in a parking space, they also haven't shown a pic of it with the wheels at full lock, probably a reason for that.

[Cobraphx]

I take it back, I did find a pic of it with the wheels turned. http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc22/majeunoehu/FuelEfficientCar_tv_28Mar08.jpg Looks to become even wider when turning... So, maybe 98-102" with the tires turned (as you are required to do by law when parking on a hill in most states)? Or in the intersection waiting to make a left turn in traffic. Not the best place to be 100" wide.

But this can be an advantage in narrow parking. Just turn the wheels all the way left or right and you can assure no one will park close enough to trap you in the space. Turn the wheels straight and back right out, no worries.

[KarenRei]

Also if the wheel covers turn with the front tires, the Aptera will get even wider.

They do.

Just like not having a pic of the Aptera parked in a parking space, they also haven't shown a pic of it with the wheels at full lock, probably a reason for that.

Actually, my favorite shot is from that angle :)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3251/2401837909_3e8542d6ca_o.jpg

It gives a good view of the structure of the pods.

Update: Ah, I see you found a different shot. :)

[Cobraphx]

That is a pretty sweet looking photo...

[JimmyDreams]

My BMW 330 CiC is about 78" wide, with the mirrors.

With 1 (ONE) door open, it is 114" wide.

It fits into 'compact' spaces easily.

I'm not worried at all about Aptera's width. And with the doors opening upwards, I'm thinking I'll like it even MORE than my current car because of how wide the doors are when open.

Until we get the specs, methinks people are in a lather over nothing.

JimmyD

[aptera1213]

all this talk of width with the doors open confuses me


a) i don't drive in or out of my garage with the doors open

b) i don't pull in and park anywhere with my doors open...

c) i don't ride down the road with my doors open...

i don't care what the width of a car is with the doors open, though i appreciate that aptera's doors won't make the car any wider when the doors are up...

but i do care greatly that i can park the sucker in my garage...and i'm still not sure if i will be able to

personally i'm not worried about parking at work or at the mall...if need be i park far in the back like the fancy cars do to keep safe from dings and such...but parking at home is hard to avoid...

i still say they should have an option that allow for the wheels to pull in and the car then rises up at slow speeds (under 5 mph) so that car rises and narrows to park...will help for tight spaces and for people who don't like to bend down to get into the car...it would have to automatically lower and widen when going faster to maintain stability....

but i would pay extra for that ability...cheaper than redoing my garage (stupid garage...my last house also had the two car garage, but had one big door...not two small ones like my current house...)

[KarenRei]

I agree -- that would be a nice extra. Heck, I could almost picture paying for it just for the gee-whiz factor ;) "Lock X-foils in attack position..."

[esmith]

You need to be able to get out of the car after you park ... Therefore you need enough room to open the door completely inside your garage.

[PaulO]

How wide is you single car garage? They should be 8' wide minimum, but more likely 9' or 10'. That should be plenty of room to pull in slowly.

The idea of making a James Bond morphing car is cool...but frightening from the engineering aspect. The complexity and reliability issues crazy. I can guarantee that it would be cheaper to widen your garage than morph the car.

[garygid]

The garage inside size is big enough, but the width of the entrance
opening is the constraint. The door-jam to door-jam is only 7' 8" wide ...
either a tight fit, or possibly not wide enough. We shall see.

But, easier to modify the door (but a pain to do so) than to
modify the Aptera. However, if the Aptera is "only" 7' 6' or even
7' 7", then no problem for me ... but my wife would probably want
me to do the "in" and "out" driving. Some suitably placed mirrors
in the garage, to see right along the door jam line, will help a lot.

Maybe a "parking position" laser to line up getting through the door?
To prevent entering (or exiting) off-center, perhaps have the laser
pointed at the top ridge of the driver's side wheel skirt. Or, make
some "centering line" on the dashboard.

Something like these:
http://www.preventsecurity.com/category.asp?c=6

[aptera1213]

7'8" for my garage door...

that is the common size for most houses made in the 60's and 70's

not worried about getting out in the garage...it is an oversized 2 car garage...it is only the entrance that is the problem...and the aptera doors open up so they actually stay within the size of the outrigger wheel wells...

i would like at least a few inches on each side to be safe

[aptera1213]

bringing the wheels in two inches on each side can't be that big a deal...even is they have to lower the body an inch...

4 inches less in width would be grand, and an inch lower couldn't kill the mileage could it?

[wolfdoggy]

I agree, pulling in the front wheels by two inches on each side would really help. Then we would have four inches taken off the width in front meaning from 7' 8"" to 7' 4" or 7' 5" to 7' 1". Of course this is an engineering decision and we do not have all the technical information. This is only one of two things I worry about with the Aptera. The other is what will be the outcome of the windows rolling down.

[PaulO]

What about a small door on one or both side of the garage door? I am thinking a large doggie door or a mini salon door for the wheels. Something that not damage the Aptera but swing open. Most doggie doors also have a lock on them.

[garygid]

I wonder if one could park 3 Apteras in a two car garage by putting
two in first (head in) and then backing one in, between the other two?

I suppose it depends upon exactly how wide the tail really is.
Of course, a lot of us have this problem, right? (big grin) :love0014:

Actually, I cannot get my Aptera into my one-car garage for another
reason ... it is already full of stuff. Way, way, way too much stuff. :sick0020:

So, even the single garage width is not a real problem for me, since
I will most likely have to park my Apteras outside anyway. :happy0025:

[Vasil]

I saw an Aptera drive past me today during my commute. From my glimpse, it's about the footprint size of a Civic.

[Cobraphx]

I measured the parking spaces at work today. They are laid out on 8 foot centers with 5" wide stripes, so inside the lines the space is 7'7" (91"). Just a smidge wider than the Type-1 appears to be from the photos we have, when the wheels are straight. If you have to steer while in the space, you quickly go over the width of the spaces here. Hopefully they are working on a slimming program for the production model.

[speculawyer]

I will most likely have to park my Apteras outside anyway. :happy0025:
Solar recharging FTW!

[Vasil]

If you get an Aptera, parking in the boonies of the parking lot would be advantageous.

1. You ensure no one can hit your vehicle since most drivers wish to park as close as possible to the storefront.
2. You ensure that no SUV is blocking your sunlight to the roof's solar cells, further allowing a cool cockpit when you return.
3. You get added exercise by parking the extra 100ft. Besides, nothing says "trendy" like keeping your car away from the mainstream gas chuggers.

[pk-sd]

I saw an Aptera drive past me today during my commute. From my glimpse, it's about the footprint size of a Civic.


Lucky dog !!!! :)

I would have followed it to see where its going. :evilgrin0013:

[Vasil]

Based on where I saw it and the direction it was headed, they were most likely heading back to the office.

[ApteraH@3535]

8' might fit on the road or parking space, but not in my garage.

[KarenRei]

Unless they *widen* it for the production model, it's not going to be 8'.

[aptera1213]

they need to just bite the bullet and take a couple of inches off each side, lower the body an inch or so if needed with the shorter outriggers and get this puppy made with a width of 7 feet or less...

7 and a half feet is just too wide.
even if they lose a few miles per charge and a few miles per gallon on the hybrid by shorting and lowering, they need to do it...

unless we are all wrong and it is already 7 feet or less wide...in that case, all is good


i really wish aptera would let us know the dimensions currently, and the planned dimensions of the finished model

grrrr

[Cobraphx]

If it were under 7 feet wide, we would already know the dimensions of the Type-1. Every normal sized vehicle being produced lately (Venture Vehicles, Tesla, Tata...) released the dimensions when they were in prototype. Aptera hasn't because they are trying to make it smaller between prototype and production. We know it's a problem, they know it's a problem and they are trying to fix it.

[Vasil]

It has its wheelbase to maximize stability. Most of you have seen the videos, especially where it's taking turns at 45+ mph. Bring in the width of the front wheels, and drivers will be forced to take turns at slower speeds. The width fits easily into a car lane, and the vehicle will still fit into any standard garage or parking spot as a result. Like I mentioned before: park anywhere that will give your car some breathing room regardless.

[garygid]

The idea is to position the Center of Gravity and make it wide
enough so that the tires will skid sideways before it flips over.

Sliding is usually preferred to suddenly flipping, right?

[garygid]

Looking at this picture / drawing of the MK-1, it looks like the
Wheel Skirt extends about 2 1/4 inches beyond the sidewall of the tire.
The widest part seems to be about one foot off the ground.

So, 77" + 6.5 + 2 x 2.25 = 77" + 11" = 88" = 7' 4" out to out.
However, Aptera seems to be doing a re-design of the skirt (for tire access)
for the production model, so they might pull it back in just a bit.

What do you think?

http://www.aptera.com/images/home.jpg

[KarenRei]

So, 79" + 6.5 + 2 x 2.25 = 79" + 11" = 89.5" = 7' 6" out to out.

Where'd 79" come from? Tread center to tread center comes out to 77". Apart from that, your math seems reasonable.

[garygid]

OOPS! Faulty memory cells. And, inaccurate math too!

I fixed my post to 77" + 11" => 7' 4"
However, this appears to be just a good rendering, not a real picture.

To me, the Mk-1 still appears wider on the foot-square red tiles picture.

[aptera1213]

they need to find a way to make it a bit more narrow....

no way that works in most parking lots with your wells going from basically line to line...(if you move the one side about 6 inches to get it within the white line, the other side will be just about on the opposite white line...so it does, currently, take up a parking space from line to line)

and it probably won't work with my garage either...


grrr

http://solartaxi.blueblog.ch/files/images/2008/7/mob912_1217398140.jpg

[ApteraH@3535]

I hope your 7'4" value is correct. That >>just<< fit in my two car garage, which is divided in half by a ceiling support post to give 7'6", and 7'8" spaces.

[aptera1213]

well my garage is divided too...7'8" on each side...but i really need more than an inch or two on each side to feel safe...even 4 inches on each side means you are taking it slow and cautious...and that means a width of 7'....at 7'4" you have 2 inches to spare on each side...that is damn tight to do daily and a major risk to your areodynamic wheel wells...and that doesn't even count parking lots (i will park far from the store front where other cars aren't parked...walking is good for you, while bad drivers and parkers are not good for your aptera

[KarenRei]

I think it's mainly going to be an issue for pulling into garages (and this assumes that they don't make the production model narrower). I don't think it's going to make much of a difference in parking lots. Look at how much space there is between the Aptera's doors and the other cars' doors. Nobody is going to be dinging each other -- not a chance. And even from the Aptera's wheels to the other cars, even in this not-that-large space, looks like, what, a foot on each side? Normal cars *need* space on each side if they want to get out because their doors take up so much room when open.

Again, while this may be tight getting into and out of a garage, for parking spaces, I don't think it's going to be nearly as big of a deal as people are picturing. And this assumes that the production model remains the same width.

[aptera1213]

mmmm, maybe...

but look at this one parking spot...he could pull in straight because the road basically leads directly to this spot...

now visualize normal grocery or mall parking or movie theater parking...do you get a spot like this or do you have to weave around and find a spot somewhere in the middle of a row...

heck, steve didn't park in the center of this parking space and he had a straight shot...now picture coming in at it on a curve with a hummer on each side...

not saying it can't be done, not saying you won't get good at doing it, just saying the width is an issue...

not worried about door dings, the aptera is almost door-ding-proof....but the trade off is this....almost assured of "no" door dings...almost assured "of" wheel well dings...

[Matthijs]

Well I hope the Aptera isn't gonna be to wide. Cause in Holland there are even signs like these.

http://www.rijschool-youngstyle.nl/verkeersborden_overzicht/c/c_18.gif or http://www.rijschool-youngstyle.nl/verkeersborden_overzicht/l/l_12.gif or http://www.rijschool-youngstyle.nl/verkeersborden_overzicht/l/l_11.gif

The far right one is in a location near me at a road reconstruction site. This means that any vehicle wider than 2 m (6.56 feet) isn't allowed in this lane. So it will not even fit! Have to keep my eyes open in this case. :)

[gistmarrs]

There are a lot of people trying to make this into a big issue. My truck is a foot wider than the Aptera, so I'm going to be able to park this thing blind folded.

The first time my wife pulled my truck into the garage, she was really slow and cautious. There is only about 2 inches on each side to spare on our garage door. Now, she knows where it needs to be and can zip it in there just like she does her car.

After a few minutes behind the wheel, you'll get used to it's size. If you don't, well, maybe you shouldn't be driving at all.

[aptera1213]

a foot wider? 8 and a half feet wide?? where the heck do you park that beast?? i hope you have another car you take to the movies and such because we don't have spaces over 8 1/2 feet where i live....heck more and and more spaces are even smaller as they keep repainting the lines closer and closer

if they keep moving the lines closer and the spots smaller i might have a tough time parking my freakin scooter... :)

[JimmyDreams]

I'm fairly certain I know where that parking space is. I'll stop by there later this afternoon and check. If it's where I think it is, I'll get a measurement (complete with pics, including the actual tape).

JimmyD

[aptera1213]

sweet


of course like karen says, this is the proto-type...we don't know if the final version will be the same size...

[speculawyer]

I think it's mainly going to be an issue for pulling into garages (and this assumes that they don't make the production model narrower). I don't think it's going to make much of a difference in parking lots.
It really depends on the parking lot. Some places desperate for parking have painted their parking spots very narrow. The parking lot at eBay HQ comes to mind. There are definitely gonna be times where you have to park farther away and hike.

Even if you can get it in there, you need to think about the other people. Those out-riggers are not so visible, especially from a big SUV. I have a feeling some people are going to get their outriggers smashed by other people in hit & run parking lot accidents. :( I hope they don't cost too much to replace.

Narrow roads may be a bit scary too. For example, the lanes on the Golden Gate bridge are pretty narrow.

[NeilBlanchard]

Hi,

In all likelihood, that is an 8' wide (compact) parking space (center to center on the lines). The Typ-1 appears to be at a slight angle to the camera and/or the space, so working with what it is, here are some dimensions:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v724/NeilBlanchard/ApteraWidth-4.jpg
Basing things on the 8'-0" parking space lines, the track looks to be 6'-9 1/2", and the out-to-out of the wheel fairings (trying to account for the parallax) seems to be ~7'-3".

I don't know why some folks are getting wound up about this -- vehicles are limited to [8'-6"] wide; so semi-trucks are the widest they can be. I would be very surprised if most roads didn't have lanes that are at least 14' wide -- 12' would have to be a minimum for any "real" highway. My neighborhood had curbs added recently, and they are 30' apart -- and that is much narrower than all but the oldest New England roads.

[I stand corrected; and this just emphasizes my point.]

[gistmarrs]

vehicles are limited to 8' wide
Actually it's 8' 6" wide not including mirrors and ladders.

[Apt3448]

but look at this one parking spot...he could pull in straight because the road basically leads directly to this spot...
apparently not, look at the steering wheel: it is D-shaped, and as Anthony recently observed, when parked with the wheels strait, the flat side is down. As it is ''up''here, the wheels aren't straight and steve apparently parked rather casually from a turn.

not worried about door dings, the aptera is almost door-ding-proof....but the trade off is this....almost assured of "no" door dings...almost assured "of" wheel well dings...
So now we get there: trade of. No more door dings is a good thing. Now note that the wheel caps/skirts are about at the same longitudinal position as the wheels of the adjacent cars. So how extreme must the adjacent car turn their wheels for their nose nicking your wheel caps?? It seems to me that just about everyone pulls out more or less straight, gradually increasing the radius by turning the wheels. So by the time they 'invade your space' they are actually long past the wheel skirts and invade your space where the Aptera is narrower. No more lost side mirrors, no more dinged doors, no more dinged rear car sections. I see benefits.

Now don't back in, will you?! While I hear some people are worried about their garage, it really is a bit of a red herring otherwise.

[jstdadd]

I would say that the model is about 5'7" to 5'9".

[garygid]

Banging doors while parked is not the issue at all.

Notice that Steve is parked over to the right in the parking space (our left).

The driver going into or out of the space to the right of the Aptera can look
out the driver's window and see the Aptera's right-side wheel skirt.
That driver has a reasonable chance to avoid hitting the visible skirt.

HOWEVER, the driver going into or out of the space to the left of the Aptera
cannot see the Aptera's left-side wheel skirt. This driver might not even know
that the Aptera wheel is there. The only visible reference point this
driver has is the "cabin" of the Aptera, which makes it look like there is
a lot of clearance (even more than normal), even when there is little or no
remaining clearance to the Aptera's left wheel skirt.

This driver has a substantial chance of hitting the hidden skirt unless
backing straight out, which is rare. Almost all entering and exiting
of perpendicular parking spaces involves a sharp turn, and swerving
very close (usually over the lines) to the adjacent vehicle.

BANG! CRASH! CRUNCH! SCRAPE! :scared0011:
OOPS, ... and some will just drive away quickly!

That is the REAL problem.

It has nothing to do with the driver of the Aptera or the Aptera moving.
But, parking toward the right of the space might help, as Steve has done.
Parking closely to the left would seem to invite disaster.

[Cobraphx]

Also of note in that pic is that the Aptera is parked over the line of the space on his right. This is obvious when you notice that the shadows are all to the left of the Aptera. If you shift the shadows so that they even left to right with the body above, the right skirt shadow will end up in the space to the right. From that pick I still stick with 7'-6" or a bit wider for the type-1 width. eventually someone will be in the same place at teh same time with a tape measure and we'll know for sure.

What we can all agree on is that the Aptera Type-1 is really wide for what is essentially a two seat economy car. Ask anyone that drives a dually pickup around how fun that is. The advantage of the pickup truck is that it is highly visible and likely to dish out much more than it gets in a case of vehicle to vehicle contact. Another thing hat the Aptera will suck at is drive up windows, drive up ATM's, drive up tellers, drive up pharmacies, checking the mail at the mailbox... those outrigger wheels ensure you have to get out to use those things or get really long arms.

[speculawyer]

HOWEVER, the driver going into or out of the space to the left of the Aptera
cannot see the Aptera's left-side wheel skirt. This driver might not even know
that the Aptera wheel is there. The only visible reference point this
driver has is the "cabin" of the Aptera, which makes it look like there is
a lot of clearance (even more than normal), even when there is little or no
remaining clearance to the Aptera's left wheel skirt.

This driver has a substantial chance of hitting the hidden skirt unless
backing straight out, which is rare. Almost all entering and exiting
of perpendicular parking spaces involves a sharp turn, and swerving
very close (usually over the lines) to the adjacent vehicle.

BANG! CRASH! CRUNCH! SCRAPE! :scared0011:
OOPS, ... and some will just drive away quickly!
Exactly . . . that is what I was trying to say.

I wonder if there could be a little hole or something on those out-riggers so you could put a flag on them when parked so the person might see the flag sticking up. Sort of like those recumbant bikes that have flags so cars can see them better.

(And as I indicated, I hope those out-rigger fairings are cheap to replace.)

[Danny]

Somebody ought to be able to design a simple clip on vertical flag similar to the ancient horizontal curb feelers. When you park, you just put out the flags. I already have to attach my Club. What's an extra minute or two?

[evolutionmovement]

Could maybe even have a spring-loaded deal that does that. You could just push it back down before you leave.

Though observing humans in their natural environments lately, I've noticed they back out straight first (even the old people who don't turn their heads). Why? Perhaps they realizer that cutting the wheel too much too soon would result in hitting the car next to them. Many of these humans, lacking confidence in their driving or with poor spacial skills, drive leaving far more space than they need to clear obstacles (to my great annoyance when stuck behind someone who won't pass when there's well over a foot of clearance to either side of them). I'd say those two factors make you about as likely to be hit as with any vehicle.

I haven't used a drive-through in years except the toll, but I'd bite the bullet for the Aptera and get the transponder. I'm sure The Man has more advanced ways of tracking me anyway.

[KarenRei]

Just an observation: how is it even *possible* to hit something that far forward on an adjacent car while backing out? You'd have to pretty much immediately turn the wheel 90 degrees. And who would do that while backing up?

If you're half blind and pulling into the space as fast as you can a test of how fast your brakes can bring you from 30mph to 0, then I could possibly see hitting the wheel pods with enough force to do damage when pulling in. But when backing up? I can't picture how that could possibly happen.

[garygid]

Obviously one cannot turn the wheels 90 degrees.

See if you can picture this, I can:
While backing up 4 feet (approximately the distance of the rear end of the
Aptera's skirt from the Aptera's nose), it would be possible for the front
bumper of the car-on-the-left to swing to the right by 8 inches or so?

I think 8 out of 48 is quite possible, and not a large angle at all. In fact,
the wheels of the car on the right might already be turned that much,
left over from that driver swinging "wide" into their parking spot when
the slot-on-the-right was empty.

Maybe parking is not much of an issue there, but it surely is here.

Also, hitting the skirts at ANY speed will do damage to the Aptera.

[KarenRei]

While backing up 4 feet (approximately the distance of the rear end of the
Aptera's skirt from the Aptera's nose), it would be possible for the front
bumper of the car-on-the-left to swing to the right by 8 inches or so?

That wouldn't cut it. The wheel pods aren't four feet long. They need to move over those 8 inches or so before they get past the wheel pods. If that's even possible, it'd take an immediate hard turn, which makes absolutely no sense to do in a parking space and would cause an accident in even normal circumstances.

[KarenRei]

Also, hitting the skirts at ANY speed will do damage to the Aptera.

I've watched the Aptera videos where they smack pretty hard on the composites, and that's pretty much my (limited) experience with them, too (I have a backpack with a composite frame). These things take a lot of energy to break. Collision energy is proportional to the velocity squared, so there's not that much energy in a 2mph collision -- especially if it pushes the fairly light Aptera at all or if there's any flex in how the pods are mounted. And since they're mounted to the suspension arms, there should be at least some flex there.

[JakesOnline]

Some parking lots are tight. I usually turn the wheel as soon as possible. If there's enough space between my car and adjacent cars, I might start turning the wheel immediately while backing out. I can see Gary's concern. If there appears to be more clearance than there actually is, it's a potential problem.

I am also concerned with the visiblity of the rear end. Someone backing out of a parking spot across from an Aptera might not see the rear end, which is so thin it may be overlooked.

[Apt3448]

Just an observation: how is it even *possible* to hit something that far forward on an adjacent car while backing out? You'd have to pretty much immediately turn the wheel 90 degrees. And who would do that while backing up?

If you're half blind and pulling into the space as fast as you can a test of how fast your brakes can bring you from 30mph to 0, then I could possibly see hitting the wheel pods with enough force to do damage when pulling in. But when backing up? I can't picture how that could possibly happen.

That's what I've been trying to say, too. It doesn't make sense. Damage, if a t all, happens towards the rear of the adjacent car, not the front. If one really really wanted, could one damage an :aptera: wheel skirt by pulling out of a parking spot? Probably. Is it likely to happen per chance? Heck no. But we'll collect the statistics here, i hope.:)

[garygid]

How far behind the nose of the Aptera do you think
the back end of the skirt is located?
It might be only 3 feet instead of 4, but still easy to hit.
Set up a cardboard box, and try it.

Mass is also important.
Try sideswiping the skirts at 2 mph with a one-ton hammer.
Also, the other car is powered.
It will just keep going and might rip the skirt right off.

What do you think the rather thin skirt is attached to?
Not likely to be attached to anything on the outside.
The top, bottom, front, and back might have a light frame inside.
Most likely, that frame will bend very easily, with only deep
scratches and possibly some cracks on the skirt itself.

[garygid]

I agree with JakesOnline.

Here, one usually has to turn as soon as possible to get the vehicle
to turn a full 90 degrees when coming out of the parking spot.
To not do so risks backing into the cars parked in the row directly behind,
which are sometimes sticking too far out of their slot. The parking rows
are often spaces at a minimum distance, and the slots are many times
noticeably cramped. However, some parking lots, by comparison, have
a "lot" of room.

When going in, one often needs to "skim" by the side of the other vehicle
in order to make the turn, especially with front wheel drive vehicles that
have a limited (large) turn radius (like the Aptera might have).

For many (maybe not most) people backing out, they start that turn as soon
as they think that there is enough clearance to turn. This can be immediately,
if there appears to be sufficient room. With the Aptera parked next to them,
it will appear to them that there is a lot of room.

Also, most people are not very good at judging distances and turning.
Occasionally they run over curbs when turning right.
Quite often they hit curbs when parallel parking.

Again, maybe it is much different where you live.
Have you ever been hit while parked legally?
I have (actually my vehicle has) been hit twice that I can remember.

Maybe your vehicles do not get "keyed" there either, but here some
pranksters might just do it for kicks, or to see how hard the surface is.

[evolutionmovement]

I don't know what kind of lots you guys have, but I park in Chinatown garages in subcompact spaces flanked by jackasses who squeeze SUVs into them and where they need to do 3-point turns to make a corner. Where I've, on occasion, opened the hatch, parked the car, then crawled out the back to get out since the cars were too close and if I were to cut the wheel without backing up first I would without question hit the car next to me. Geometry is geometry - the only time you could cut the wheel before backing up is if you had a lot of room to your sides. What's behind is less relevant (and easier to avoid) to what's beside. There aren't any medals for backing out of tight spaces in one move, but there is bent metal for steering directly into the car at your side (ok, the Aptera is 'glass, but it isn't as interesting a sentence).

Now fitting the Aptera into some of those spaces to begin with is another question.

[JakesOnline]

the only time you could cut the wheel before backing up is if you had a lot of room to your sides.

Exactly. The concern is that someone may assume there is room to the sides because they cannot see the Aptera front wheel.

[aptera1213]

make sure you don't pull through when there are two space front to back...with a regular car i often do so i can just pull out forward...put with the aptera that would put your wheel well at greater risk

[Aptera3390]

I would think it is better to park backwards in a parking space because then your front wheels are clearly visible, and whoever parks next to your car will make space to avoid hitting you. When they leave, they will see your front wheels sticking out, and should be able to see them in the side mirror as well when they start backing out.



make sure you don't pull through when there are two space front to back...with a regular car i often do so i can just pull out forward...put with the aptera that would put your wheel well at greater risk

[JimmyDreams]

I'm fairly certain I know where that parking space is. I'll stop by there later this afternoon and check. If it's where I think it is, I'll get a measurement (complete with pics, including the actual tape).

JimmyD


Well, I stopped by the shopping mall I THOUGHT the pic was taken at. Wrong place. I'll keep my eyes peeled for the mall and get a measurement of the parking space if I find it.

For now, though, it's an 'undisclosed location'. Is that Cheney I see shopping in the background? :scared0011:

JimmyD

[BrianK]

FWIW, Aptera has a flickr page. I can't find it now, but this person has copied all the pics (and maybe added some of their own?):

http://www.flickr.com/photos/25239861@N03/page2/

Note that there's a shot of the Aptera on Hollywood Blvd (actually, it's on Vine, but it's still the Hollywood Walk of Fame). I keep meaning to stop by there & measure the squares, but haven't been motivated to go that direction since I've known about the pics. Oddly enough, until about a year ago, I worked within a couple blocks of that location for 7 years.

Anyway, if anyone is over there & can measure the squares, we have a pretty good idea of the actual size of the thing. Also, I'm fairly certain that the parking lot pics on that page are of the lot just to the north of Avalon (formerly known as The Palace), so if one were to go over to the walk of fame to measure the stars, they could also pop into that lot & measure the spaces.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3033/2402675590_f61372d647.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3115/2401844153_47c1c6a464.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2010/2401838879_d93c10222f.jpg

[KarenRei]

Brian: That photo is actually the basis of most measurements done here because someone *did* go and measure them. :) I even perspective-corrected the photo to take away that element of uncertainty. This gives 77" between the center of the treads on each side. The only real question is the width of the fairing past the edge of the tires.

[speculawyer]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3033/2402675590_f61372d647.jpg

Wow . . . they really do give you nice extra parking privileges when you get an electric car. ;)

[DonC]

Karen - do you know why Aptera isn't releasing the specs on the vehicle size?

[Rat]

I think almost everyone is right on this parking question to some extent. Gary is right that there is always someone stupid enough or a bad enough driver, or malicious enough, to damage a car in a parking lot. I think the problem is being exaggerated by some here, but it is a potential problem. I can see people walking through a parking lot carrying a couple bags of groceries and walking between the Aptera and the one next to it without seeing the fairing (vision obscured by bags) and tripping over it, judging the width of their space by the Aptera's body, not the wheel. Pile of cans lands on top of the fairing. Person gets mad and kicks the fairing or maybe even keys the car. Someone in a monster SUV or limo will park too close and his door will manage to open wide enough to hit yours. Okay, so your vehicle will get damaged eventually. Don't they all? Mine have gone years looking like new, but, yes, even when I'm parked legally some moron has managed to ding them all sooner or later.

It seems clear to me that the risks can be minimized by taking several actions, most of which have been set forth here. Park facing forward and pull as far in as you can so your wheels are farther forward than the cars next to you, and park a bit to the right for the reasons described. That will minimize the risk from the neighbor backing up, which I think is very small in any event. Everyone I've ever seen backing out of parking lot spaces like those in the photo back out straight until the car is at least halfway out before cutting the wheel; I always do. I don't see how they could hit the fairings doing that unless the Aptera is really far back, but I suppose someone will manage it. I think the risk is when people pull in next to you. I'm with Karen on that question.

The risk with pulling in far is that you will ding the nose on something. That's a problem if there is a wall or another car in front, so pick a spot elsewhere whenever possible. In most suburban locations, you can pull in with a good-sized empty space in front, protected from vehicles facing you by parking curbs. I am concerned that the wheel fairings may hit the concrete of the higher parking curbs, so it will be interesting to see how much ground clearance Aptera gives at the front of the wheel fairing. You might knock the whole fairing off if you hit a curb or planter that way.

Do NOT back in, I say. As a former security manager, and a lawyer for government agency, I have dealt with many parking complaints. In addition to the wheel fairing issue, which puts them at greater risk, it looks to me like the tail sticks out farther past the rear wheel than the nose does past the front wheel. This is common with all cars and is the main reason parking lots have those signs Do Not Back In, although there are other reasons. When cars back in they tend to roll back until their rear wheel hits the curb and their tail sticks into the space on the other side, where it gets hit by a car pulling in there - especially if that car also backs in. The risk of this is even greater when parking in a spot where there is no curb and you pull all the way forward through the spot you entered into the spot on the opposite aisle (facing out). It is very hard to judge whether your tail is sticking over the line of the spot you pulled through. You are putting both ends of your car at risk by this behavior.

[Matthijs]

For people who do not use the search engine ;) : The outrigger wheels-- a recipe for trouble (http://www.apteraforum.com/showthread.php?t=693)

[KarenRei]

Karen - do you know why Aptera isn't releasing the specs on the vehicle size?

Because they don't want to at this point ;)

There are several potential reasons for that. A cynical one would be that they don't want to discourage people from interest in the vehicle. A panglossian one would be that they want a size reduction to make people be all the more impressed with the production model. The most likely case, IMHO, is that they don't want to have to set any stats in stone before they've finished and unveiled the final production model. They've not been wanting to solidly commit to much of anything except the basics that have been announced so far. And I can perfectly well understand that; it's just a bit frustrating for us on this side of the development process ;)

[DonC]

Karen - thanks. I suspect you're right about not wanting to be tied into specs before the production design is set. (Not sure if that is panglossian, every time GM changes any spec on the Volt you'd think they had killed a child). FWIW I did ask Aptera how wide the car was and the answer was that it would fit into a standard garage or parking space without a problem.

A little vague but I did still reserve one.

[Apt3448]

With all the money in the bank ($24 mil) and the supposed move to the production facility, and with the supposed roll-out of the production vehicles 'later this year', we might assume the design process is down to the last details, perhaps as a result of (secret) crash tests, or of availability from suppliers. Sooooo those specs shouldn't be much longer now, it would seem. Frustrating indeed. Although, on the other hand, what would we have done with all that time if the width of the Aptera was just given...

While many companies seem eager to get every little bit of news coverage they can get, Aptera has been somewhat aloof. No add campaign, no hyped up test results or partial break-throughs, etc. And as they have the first production year about completely reserved, why bother? The buzz keeps buzzing, just by having little things in the blogoshpere, at no cost and effort. At the same time, when the solar taxi comes by, or when Anthony from the forum drops by, Steve is there in person, showing off and making sure the real thing is there to see - but please sign the NDA...

Are they discouraging people: only to the extend they could not really deal with much more demand. Panglossian (nice choice of words there)? I sometimes think they might read the blog and chuckle and can't wait to show us what they really coocked up. But most of all: as a startup they cannot afford to have to back peddle on details and be ripped apart by skeptics on the intertubes.

Tony Kirton is no light-weight: the fact that there is a marketing officer while we hear little is no coincidence: he continues a trend of Aptera (be nice without making promises you cannot keep). I'm sure he keeps track of the blogs and of this forum. So whatever we get and do not get (sniff) is no coincidence. Look at all the claims at Volt, Tesla, how much did they have to explain. Has Aptera had anything to retract, yet? That is good work and good marketing.

So there, I've been nice. Now please tell me how wide this thing is, some forum members are starting to loose sleep...

[iwannaptera]

With all the money in the bank ($24 mil) and the supposed move to the production facility, and with the supposed roll-out of the production vehicles 'later this year', we might assume the design process is down to the last details, perhaps as a result of (secret) crash tests, or of availability from suppliers. Sooooo those specs shouldn't be much longer now, it would seem. Frustrating indeed. Although, on the other hand, what would we have done with all that time if the width of the Aptera was just given...

While many companies seem eager to get every little bit of news coverage they can get, Aptera has been somewhat aloof. No add campaign, no hyped up test results or partial break-throughs, etc. And as they have the first production year about completely reserved, why bother? The buzz keeps buzzing, just by having little things in the blogoshpere, at no cost and effort. At the same time, when the solar taxi comes by, or when Anthony from the forum drops by, Steve is there in person, showing off and making sure the real thing is there to see - but please sign the NDA...

Are they discouraging people: only to the extend they could not really deal with much more demand. Panglossian (nice choice of words there)? I sometimes think they might read the blog and chuckle and can't wait to show us what they really coocked up. But most of all: as a startup they cannot afford to have to back peddle on details and be ripped apart by skeptics on the intertubes.

Tony Kirton is no light-weight: the fact that there is a marketing officer while we hear little is no coincidence: he continues a trend of Aptera (be nice without making promises you cannot keep). I'm sure he keeps track of the blogs and of this forum. So whatever we get and do not get (sniff) is no coincidence. Look at all the claims at Volt, Tesla, how much did they have to explain. Has Aptera had anything to retract, yet? That is good work and good marketing.

So there, I've been nice. Now please tell me how wide this thing is, some forum members are starting to loose sleep...

I'm as much of an apterphile as the next guy, or gal but to be fair they have in fact had to backpedal/retract a little bit. Not a lot mind you. And perhaps not even at all if one wants to get technical about the exact meanings of certain phrases, but certainly when the reservation button on the webpage went up things were a little different:

1. When I signed up, I was promised the ability to change from H to E or vice versa up to the moment of signing on the dotted line for purchase basically. No penalty was ever mentioned for doing so. The splitting of the reservation list kind of changes that dynamic. True, they never said that you could sign up for the H and change your mind on the day of purchase and get an E in the same time frame as if you had signed up for an E in the first place, but it was implied at the very least. Also , the splitting of the reservation lists is a little different from how it was advertised at first.
2. The timeline for the H has been pushed back. Although to be fair the intial time was quite vague, and any sane person might expect the timeline on production of a complex new vehicle to slip a little.
3. IIRC, the approximate retail price has gone up $100!:scared0011:
4. The regional roll out is a new thing since the early days as well.

Okay #3 is a joke, and don't get me wrong. Each of these developments make a whole lot of sense for an extremely small startup in a capital intensive industry with a huge waiting list compared to their current manufacturing capacity. We live in interesting times.:happy0025:

[Apt3448]

I'm as much of an apterphile as the next guy, or gal but to be fair they have in fact had to backpedal/retract a little bit. Not a lot mind you. And perhaps not even at all if one wants to get technical about the exact meanings of certain phrases, but certainly when the reservation button on the webpage went up things were a little different [...]


Fair enough, No arguing there, and the details of the h-e splitting could still change. I could add that the myaptera.com idea seems to have all but disappeared. Perhaps they can just redirect to this forum:) ?
All in al, I agree and suppose Aptera has been run quite well. We see too often vaporware concept cars, with an obvious disconnect between the PR department and the design group. That has not been the case here. I find it interesting that Tony Kirton, with a background in large companies, appears quite adept in understanding what Aptera needs.

[jstdadd]

I think when I put myself in their shoes I see the following:


I will not have a dealer network when the first vehicles are manufactured.
I may not be able to build more than 50 vehicles in the first two months.
The first hundred vehicles or so need to be closely monitored.
I may have to recall the first 50 vehicles if I find a safety flaw.
I do not have a statewide supply chain.
I do not have a repair network outside of San Diego County.
I do not have trained technicians outside the factory.
I do not have a lot of experts to shuttle around the state to inspect cars in the field.
I may have to run all the cars already built back through the factory for a recall.
I will not be building hybrid vehicles until a time in the future, that is uncertain.


Consider the list yourself - how would you work within these constraints and still produce vehicles just as safely and with the highest quality, starting from the first? Oh, and you want to be profitable just as soon as possible.

There has not been a startup from zero vehicle manufacturer in my lifetime that produced as many vehicles (certainly over 1000) in its first year of manufacture, in the US. Yet that is what Aptera has put before us, and that is why 4,000 potential owners have put money ahead of their desires to get one of the first vehicles. It is much more comfortable for me, and I think I speak for many others, to walk onto a dealer lot and my choices are wide and deep. Usually I am walking onto a dealer lot and color is the only choice I will be making that day.

I can't remember ever making a purchase where I had to put several hundred dollars on deposit to get a line number. People do it all the time in Southern California to get into desirable housing projects, and it is many thousands that they put down ahead of a home being built.

I guess I will put it this way: if it means that several hundred of the first cars off the factory floor will be delivered geographically close to the factory, so that the factory can give me reasonable service, then so be it. By a stroke of fate someone in my own San Diego County has chosen to build the most exciting, useful and affordable vehicle ever offered for general sale.

I am not going to act like I feel sorry that LA or San Francisco buyers will have to wait a few months. Everything I see and hear about Steve and his group of entrepreneurs is that they want to build the best possible vehicle and offer the highest quality owner experience. Can everybody just stand back, take a breath, and quit worrying about being first in the lunch line? It reminds me a little bit of middle school, when everybody had to have their desk clear for the class to go to lunch....someone was always ready to complain about it.

I think that if you tried yourself to put together an equitable and profitable rollout, you might make just the same decisions. I hope that 'opinion' doesn't drive the strategic decision making at Aptera - I want them to be profitable and solid from the beginning, and to remain that way for many years.

Let's not fret - I believe that we are going to get a class vehicle, at a reasonable price, and we will all be the envy of our friends in the meantime. You might wait a year for your typ-1e, but if your number is below 1500, you will likely get it far earlier than that.

For those of you outside California, we will be happy to iron out the bugs for you. If you want to ride in the car, let me know, if you have a number, I will meet you at my local airport for a ride to your hotel! I think our nation will look at this vehicle and at this time as the turning point away from dirty personal travel to "green, that works!"

[Apt3448]

I think when I put myself in their shoes I see the following:


I will not have a dealer network when the first vehicles are manufactured.
I may not be able to build more than 50 vehicles in the first two months.
The first hundred vehicles or so need to be closely monitored.
I may have to recall the first 50 vehicles if I find a safety flaw.
I do not have a statewide supply chain.
I do not have a repair network outside of San Diego County.
I do not have trained technicians outside the factory.
I do not have a lot of experts to shuttle around the state to inspect cars in the field.
I may have to run all the cars already built back through the factory for a recall.
I will not be building hybrid vehicles until a time in the future, that is uncertain.


Isn't it odd that all good lists come in 10's? :) You sum it up nicely, these issues do describe the odds against them and the unusual case of Aptera. I have probably never before taken such a gamble with so much money. Although, with my number there will be plenty of very early adopters before me. :rolleyes:
And Aptera, again, did a good job with setting up the escrow account to help with fears about it being a scam.

[ggodman]

jstdadd is I assume a San Diego customer, telling everyone else to sit around waiting for our turn. If you are 2000 in line you should get your car before 200 in line since he is closer. Sorry I'm not convinced, there are plenty of us that would "Take the chance" with the early models, even if it meant towing the MK1 back to Vista, CA.

[mmalc]

jstdadd is I assume a San Diego customer, telling everyone else to sit around waiting for our turn. If you are 2000 in line you should get your car before 200 in line since he is closer. Sorry I'm not convinced, there are plenty of us that would "Take the chance" with the early models, even if it meant towing the MK1 back to Vista, CA.

And that's precisely what's a selfish attitude.
jstdadd is suggesting that you look at things from Aptera's perspective. And as someone with a reservation number that I expect to end up (after today's list readjustment) in the low-mid hundreds, but living in the Bay Area, I fully understand that.

I might be willing to take the risk, but I appreciate that the company might not want to. Even if I'm willing to pay for transportation for repairs etc., does the Aptera want to risk the adverse publicity of a Typ-1 being seen towed hundreds of miles across state back to base? What sort of warranty will they have? If it's a manufacturing problem, the warranty might include towing back at Aptera's expense, and it's unlikely to be worth their while writing different contracts for different customers, or simply accepting a customer's promise that "If something goes wrong, I'll ship it back myself, honest".

Moreover, I don't think the suggestion is that slot 2000 (San Diego) will be fulfilled before 200 (Bay Area). By the time they get into the 1000's, I'd expect them to be well underway with state-wide roll-out. So maybe if you're up North and have a slot under a hundred you might see others in the low hundreds closer to San Diego getting theirs first, but I personally regard that as a price worth paying for a smooth roll-out.

[Ardie3301]

That's why Garygid has his work cut out for him:

He will have to make two charts (Typ-1e / Typ-1h),
for each geographic territory, since Aptera will be introducing the vehicles in stages:
(San Diego / Los Angeles / San Francisco / rest of the state / out-of-state dealerships as they come online).

I am supposing that Aptera is going to deliver <nn> Typ-1es to "area 1 (San Diego)," and then move on to fill quotas in other territories.
Suppose your reservation number is <nn>+1? Will you have to wait until LA / SF / rest-of-state get their quotas filled before it comes around back to you?
Or are they going to attempt to fill them by territory (SD, then LA, then SF, then everyone else) according to your reservation number, so if you got number 10,000 (but live in San Diego), you would get a Typ-1e before *anybody* in LA?

It will be a challenge for Aptera to manage the crybabies.

-- Ardie

[iwannaptera]

It will be a challenge for Aptera to manage the crybabies.

-- Ardie

Amen to that. No matter how Aptera handles this one, there will be a few people who are annoyed/ pissed off. Oh well, there is not much they can do about that except try their utmost to do what they have to do in the fairest way possible. Of course they can buy my satisfaction with a free Typ1:happy0025: .

[Scott]

Aw c'mon... I'm #34, and I'll very likely have to wait a full three years for fulfillment, while some people will have to wait less than one! Can't I cry just a little bit??? (I'm an 'h' in region 3 - Sacramento) :(

Whatever their plan is, it won't please everyone... Just part of the game, especially with very high demand for a product with a low initial roll-out. I think it's unlikely that a viable competitor will hit the streets before I get my aptera, so I'm ok with it. Snively, but ok.

[speculawyer]

I think when I put myself in their shoes I see the following:
<list of doom>
Well . . . they can also screen the various people on the list and say "We'll sell you an Aptera but you have to sign this paper saying that you know support will be very limited and blah blah blah....."

Early adopters generally know they are in for some bumps. And on the plus side, I'm sure a lot of the early adopters will be very helpful in debugging problems. Most will have some technical background and it seems many will have electrical knowledge as they've had their solar systems installed.

[jstdadd]

Aw c'mon... I'm #34, and I'll very likely have to wait a full three years for fulfillment, while some people will have to wait less than one! Can't I cry just a little bit??? (I'm an 'h' in region 3 - Sacramento) :(

Whatever their plan is, it won't please everyone... Just part of the game, especially with very high demand for a product with a low initial roll-out. I think it's unlikely that a viable competitor will hit the streets before I get my aptera, so I'm ok with it. Snively, but ok.
Scott:

I don't see any reason for you to come to the conclusion that you will wait so long...it seems to me that it is basically a matter of opening a dealership in the delivery area - at least within driving distance of service.

[DonC]

Of course they can buy my satisfaction with a free Typ1:happy0025: .

Funny you should bring this up. I was just mentioning that after 150,000 miles the dollars you avoid spending on gas would be significantly higher than the price of the Typ1. So you will be getting your Aptera "free." :love0002:

[Scott]

Scott:

I don't see any reason for you to come to the conclusion that you will wait so long...it seems to me that it is basically a matter of opening a dealership in the delivery area - at least within driving distance of service.

well, my math goes something like this:
I ordered in September 07.

The first (San Diego) 1h will roll out in early 2010. By the time they wander up to region 3, it could well be September, don't you think? Especially if anything "doesn't go right", which, in reality, is pretty much a given.

If they don't do the "regional" distributions for the 1h's, you may be correct, but I've not heard anything one way or the other.

But as I've sorta said... I'm in it for the long haul... I *want* this car! :jumping0007:

[speculawyer]

What are these different 'regions'?

[Scott]

What are these different 'regions'?

San Diego gets stuff first, LA next, SF third... It was initially described as "regions" in the Aptera news 'lo those many months ago. Same thing everyone else is talking about...

[garygid]

A "Region" is the area "close enough" to one of the first
several "Aptera Service Center" locations, when it opens.

1. Near San Diego and/or Aptera
2. Near Los Angeles.
3. Near San Francisco bay area.

The location, size, and "limits" of these "Regions" are not yet known to us.
Presumably Aptera will decide upon the first area fairly soon.

[mmalc]

well, my math goes something like this:
I ordered in September 07.
The first (San Diego) 1h will roll out in early 2010. By the time they wander up to region 3, it could well be September, don't you think? Especially if anything "doesn't go right", which, in reality, is pretty much a given.
If they don't do the "regional" distributions for the 1h's, you may be correct, but I've not heard anything one way or the other.

My guess was that the "regional thing" would apply primarily to the e. The h won't be available until the network is in place, so when the h is available it should be available everywhere simultaneously.

[earther]

A "Region" is the area "close enough" to one of the first
several "Aptera Service Center" locations, when it opens.

1. Near San Diego and/or Aptera
2. Near Los Angeles.
3. Near San Francisco bay area.

The location, size, and "limits" of these "Regions" are not yet known to us.
Presumably Aptera will decide upon the first area fairly soon.

Is it known yet whether we can choose our own region, if we are willing to travel from the zipcode we registered at to pick it up elsewhere? For example, I'm in Gilroy, which I presume counts in the last rollout region, but if I'm willing to go to Carlsbad to go get mine, would that up my place in line? Or is that considered bad etiquette, akin to the out-of-staters buying by proxy?

-Steve

[PaulO]

My understanding from the FAQ page, is that they really want to have a dealer/tech help reasonably close by before selling you a car. That would nix the picking your own region.

I wish we could choose. I would drive down to Carlsbad in a heartbeat.

[mmalc]

Perhaps we might see a mini "migration"...

146

[garygid]

Even with the "h" there is most likely to be a "region" rollout.
Basically for the same reasons that the 1e rollout will be staged.

1. Aptera is likely to want the initial deliveries to be close to the factory
so they can monitor this "very new" vehicle.

2. There will be significant training and equipment to support
and service the 1h's considerably more complex ICE and Generator.

[esmith]

Hi,

In all likelihood, that is an 8' wide (compact) parking space (center to center on the lines). The Typ-1 appears to be at a slight angle to the camera and/or the space, so working with what it is, here are some dimensions:


That particular parking space is approximately 8'2" not including white lines.

[ev_nv]

I've heard from a friend that the Aptera might be wider than a standard car. Are there specs listed somewhere?

For instance, some standard vehicle widths:
Commuter Cars Tango 39" (4-wheel, tandem EV)
Cree CH SAM 61.2" (3-wheel, tandem EV wi/ outboard wheels)
2008 mini cooper 66.2"
2008 toyota prius hybrid 67.9"
2008 honda civic hybrid 69"
2009 honda accord 72.7"
2008 hummer h3 85.5" (too wide for most public spaces, especially since you need space to open the doors)

motorcycle parking stall 48"
compact parking stall 96"
standard parking stall 102"


So, where does the Aptera fit in?

[ev_nv]

Found the search on the Aptera group and found the discussion about the outrigger wheels

[Carbon Saver II]

Specs would be really nice!!! I have spoken to someone that did go to Gordon's party and their comments were two:

1. It is too wide in the front to be drivable, and

2. She would not drive it because it is too odd and everyone will be looking at it. (my reaction was I get the same thing with the Cobra - drop a gear and wave goodbye. Humm, guess I can't do that if the battery is low.... :aptera:

I asked Customer Service for the height so I can order a lift to keep the Cobra above the Aptera in the garage. They said no specs will be released at this time, not even the height of the vehicle.

Guess we wait....

[garygid]

We estimate (approximately):

Something like 4' 4" (to about 4' 6") high, about 13' 1" long, and about
7' 4" (or 7' 5", maybe as much as 7' 6") wide (for the MK-1 prototype).

[garygid]

If we assume those red floor tiles are exactly 12", what do we get
for a width using those tiles as a guide? Maybe as much as 7' 6"?

Other estimates based on the Hollywood Stars were 7' 4" and 7' 5".

[KarenRei]

If I recall, Gary, your estimate was 7'5" and mine was 7'4". I'm too tired to dig up a link to the previous thread right now to verify, however.

[speculawyer]

For instance, some standard vehicle widths:
Commuter Cars Tango 39" (4-wheel, tandem EV)
Cree CH SAM 61.2" (3-wheel, tandem EV wi/ outboard wheels)
2008 mini cooper 66.2"
2008 toyota prius hybrid 67.9"
2008 honda civic hybrid 69"
2009 honda accord 72.7"
2008 hummer h3 85.5" (too wide for most public spaces, especially since you need space to open the doors)

motorcycle parking stall 48"
compact parking stall 96"
standard parking stall 102"

Aptera 88" to 90" (using the 7' 4" to 7' 6" range)

Damn . . . bigger than the hummer. But on the plus side, you don't have to worry about the door as much since the main body is thinner the the doors open up in addition to out.

[sk8ndad]

smart fortwo 61.38"

[garygid]

What are the "standard vehicle widths" when including their mirrors?

[KarenRei]

Or doors, for that matter.

When parking a car, it's not just whether you can fit into a space that matters, but whether or not you can get your door open or not. This easily adds an additional foot or two of needed space on either side that access is needed on.

[Ceazar77]

The added benifit of the outriggers is that it will prevent people parking to close to you on your right so that they can still get out (but you are stuck climbing in the passengers door).

[garygid]

But, generally the door-opening space is overlapped with the
adjoining vehicle's space and is only used for a short time.
Both vehicles use the "walking" or "loading" space between
the parked vehicles. Along the Aptera's body, that should be easy.

It is only the front wheels that one might have to hop over, and
that could easily keep a shopping cart from passing through.

[aptera1213]

Or doors, for that matter.

When parking a car, it's not just whether you can fit into a space that matters, but whether or not you can get your door open or not. This easily adds an additional foot or two of needed space on either side that access is needed on.


not to be a smart-alec, but i don't drive into my garage with the doors open...nor do i park overnight on the street with my doors open...

the outriggers have down-sides...and i love the look and function of the aptera, but it's just a truth we have to deal with...but the wider the outriggers, the worse it is for garage doors, for some parking spaces and for street parking...

now the shape has many up points too...which is why i'm on the waiting list...that said, i will be much happier is they get the width at 7 feet than if they get it over 7 feet...and if it is more than 7 and a half feet then i will have to either pass on it or redo my garage from two single doors to one large door

which is expensive

and, while it looks nice on the apteraforum logo sitting out on the street, i will never park mine like that...either garage or driveway or parking space at the store or mall...but i've seen too many parked cars lose their side mirrors from bad drivers...with the aptera you don't lose a mirror, but you do lose a whole wheel

[KarenRei]

not to be a smart-alec, but i don't drive into my garage with the doors open...nor do i park overnight on the street with my doors open...

I was merely addressing parking spaces, nothing else.

[aptera1213]

i know...

actually i'm not worried about parking spaces...

i do think we will see a few people, especially at night, tripping over the wells when cutting between cars in parking lots...

people not paying attention, people on cell phones etc

heck i've seen people do huge tumbles cutting between a car and a trailer in a parking lot...people just assume there is a clear path

[Carbon Saver II]

7 feet plus wide is big for a front paw prints. The Cobra and Prius are 5'6"ish, they vary by an inch, on the front tracks. The company full size Chevy pick'em-up is 6'6" tire to tire on the axles, if you add the big mirrors, you might be over the 7'6"ish number that was posted for a width of an Aptera.

Guess the comments from that person who saw the vehicle at Gordon's bears some thinking....

Funny story: Taking the Competition driving school at Skip Barber at Laguna Seca the outrigger front suspension in the formula car caught a bird that flew out of the footbridge when I was practicing a passing drill going into turn 5 at speed. Not much left of the bird.... But I had been advised by the instructors to go faster, so I did... :)

No telling what is going to get in the way. Since where I live the Ratcoons fight you for the trash and the Deer eat the flowers off your front door, the animals might get some surprises.

[wolfdoggy]

not to be a smart-alec, but i don't drive into my garage with the doors open...nor do i park overnight on the street with my doors open...


If you do drive into your garage with the doors open, could you please take a video of it? That would be cool!

LOL!

[Eyelawdoc]

I'm the outriggers will accrue their share of door dings and such at the mall...

Oh well, so be it. It's just the price one pays for being innovative and different.

[n_dawg]

I maintain that, since the outriggers will be at the same front/back position as the hood of the other car, doors opening and hitting them won't be a problem (as long as you park facing in, of course).

[mycomya]

To me, the reach of the outriggers and the overall width is the biggest reason to doubt the Aptera as a viable car.

I have neither a garage nor a double car-wide driveway (and our household has more than two vehicles). This means that the aptera will have to be parked in the street on occasion. If we're talking the width of a hummer or more, but in the form of a low outrigger, I gotta think someone's going to get tripped up on it at some point (and then its bye-bye aptera).

Would anyone feel comfortable parallel parking the aptera on a medium-width, medium-trafficated college town residential street?

Makes me queasy thinking about it, having it sit there "sticking its foot out" for oblivious passerbys...

But then, I park on the street all the time with the car I now own (at home and on errands). So its not just an issue not having a garage. Its really a problem everywhere else where you have to parallel park.

I don't want the width of the outriggers to be a worry. If it is, is the aptera still worth it? To me, worry is quite burdensome (and a significant added expense in the whole calculation).

I very much hope that the production aptera is smaller (or at least narrower) than the current prototype.

[iwannaptera]

To me, the reach of the outriggers and the overall width is the biggest reason to doubt the Aptera as a viable car.

I have neither a garage nor a double car-wide driveway (and our household has more than two vehicles). This means that the aptera will have to be parked in the street on occasion. If we're talking the width of a hummer or more, but in the form of a low outrigger, I gotta think someone's going to get tripped up on it at some point (and then its bye-bye aptera).

Would anyone feel comfortable parallel parking the aptera on a medium-width, medium-trafficated college town residential street?

Makes me queasy thinking about it, having it sit there "sticking its foot out" for oblivious passerbys...

But then, I park on the street all the time with the car I now own (at home and on errands). So its not just an issue not having a garage. Its really a problem everywhere else where you have to parallel park.

I don't want the width of the outriggers to be a worry. If it is, is the aptera still worth it? To me, worry is quite burdensome (and a significant added expense in the whole calculation).

I very much hope that the production aptera is smaller (or at least narrower) than the current prototype.

I too will in all likelihood be parking on the street. I hope aptera includes a BIG FLUORESCENT GREEN FLAG that can easily be placed on top of the wheel pods when parked. I plan on throwing a couple of orange cones (big ones) into the back of my Typ 1E and putting those on top of my wheels if nothing else. Not much else I can do..... Now I just have to figure some easy way of attaching the cones so they stay there in the case of high winds or punk kids. :happy0025:

I think I can get a cheap cable lock and drill some holes in whatever material those cones are made of. Run cable through holes and around tie rod. Shouldn't take more than 15 seconds. I'm not really worried about parking lots so much as parallel parking situations. I live in SF, we have a lot of traffic on my street.

[Apt3448]

The outrigger wheels have bright white skirts/covers and have reflective strips back and front for added visibility after dark. When parallel parking your aptera might stick out a few inches more then other cars. But I never drive within inches of the other parked cars, if only because THEY have side mirrors sticking out beyond their wheelbase.
The Aptera experience will be different, that's for sure, and I can understand people worrying about parking, but I really doubt it will be a big deal. It will just be different. My guess is that the biggest annoyance will be people getting their filthy fingerprints all over my car when they stop and gawk :happy0025:
And I totally agree that we are very eager to see the actual production model, and the first reviews of forum members driving in it!

[G-Jet]

iwannaptera and others,

if aptera offers a cover with flourescent reflectors on it that would do the trick. It would not leave the outriggers "sticking out" and it would be highly visible. No need for cones.

G

[evolutionmovement]

Just put a wheel on the sidewalk. On narrow New England streets, you often have to do that with any car.

[Apt3448]

G-jet, they already HAVE reflective strips front and back on the covers. Does that solve the problem or would you like big bright-orange socks for them?

[Apt3448]

Just put a wheel on the sidewalk. On narrow New England streets, you often have to do that with any car.
Nice, but the wheel skirts might make that impractical when the curbs are high. And, eh... I don't think it's legal here.