Aptera Newsletter "Lock-in"

[kdawg]

Is it just me or is it a bit crazy to ask for a deposit on a car for who's low capacity factory is not even allowing the loyal depositors the opportunity to view its facilities?

I know many people are foaming at the mouth to pick up one of these cars. But I for one will take a bit of delay if it means a safer, more convenient world use kind of transportation. Rather than a piece of hardware that is difficult to use in real world conditions with a potentially deadly flaw. We are talking about zooming down the freeway with other cars that will we several tons! I don't want this --> :sick0010:

I remind everyone that you should have taken notes with the production timeline at Tesla Motors. As a result I have not been surprised by the delays we have seen. However this latest offer is less than desirable due to the fact that I cannot even visit the factory and test drive one of these cars that is "going" to be built Jan 16th.

IMHO putting a deposit down on this vehicle without even being able to go to the factory is retarded! Let alone being able to at least test drive something! We might as well put a deposit on one of ZAP Electrics finely made pieces of vapor ware. I for one am definitely thinking of pulling my reservation. I don't need a car right now. I have a nice toyota that has only got 75,000 miles. It's still brand new by Toyota standards.

I only wanted this car because it was good for the planet and would save me a ton of money as gas prices rise. (& trust me the will!!!) I would rather wait for the Volt. It won't be much more expensive and have more room and features. A car of Aptera's price should go faster and farther than the Volt... Top seed of 120 or so.

The only good I saw in the newsletter Aptera's plans on going 0 waste stream (Maybe I misinterpreted?) If that is the case I'd still be interested in this car, but will gladly pull deposit and wait as Aptera's offering of 50% of $500 on nothing sounds like a Ponzi Scam to me. :(

[n_dawg]

The locking in is voluntary. Do nothing, and nothing changes.

[ciege]

Asking people to 'firm up' their reservation.........? On what? Something that doesn't exist?Now that's presumptuous.

[KarenRei]

Doesn't exist? Oh please. If you really want to see a 2e, take a day off work, park your car near their Vista headquarters for a day, and just watch; you'll see one.

Just please don't pester them.

[esmith]

Doesn't exist? Oh please. If you really want to see a 2e, take a day off work, park your car near their Vista headquarters for a day, and just watch; you'll see one.


Yep. And if you take a day off work on December 24th, park your car outside in the evening, and watch, eventually you'll see Santa Claus.

[ciege]

What I mean is..........for the waiting faithful here. If I can't touch the thing I'll never 'firm up'. Because basically if you firm up you are committing to buying and for whatever reason the Aptera doesn't come up to your expectations, drive, feel, safety, cost, smell (lol)............you will be out the $500.
I for one will want to 'firm up' my opinon of the Aptera by actually sitting in it, driving it, scrutinizing it for what I expect in a vehicle before I say 'it's a deal'.

[aptera1213]

What I mean is..........for the waiting faithful here. If I can't touch the thing I'll never 'firm up'.


mmmm, that isn't a bad criteria

and raises another question...is there a lock-in time frame??

i'd be happy to lock in closer to delivery date (ie...hey, your car will be ready in a month, head over to myaptera.com and make your final changes and then, if you lock in, we'll give you 250 in options free!!)

heck i might even lock-in in october when cars start getting into people's hands, even if it was a few months till mine was made...

but locking in when it could be a year or longer till i get mine seems...premature...

i can be patient waiting for the car...i image they can be patient about me locking in

[KarenRei]

Yep. And if you take a day off work on December 24th, park your car outside in the evening, and watch, eventually you'll see Santa Claus.

Laugh all you want, but anyone can see it with their own eyes from outside the building. There's nothing secret or proprietary about the existence of vehicles that roam public streets uncamouflaged. People were capturing cell phone shots of early 2es from their cars early last fall.

Once again, though, if you go, please don't pester them. They have work to do.

[jstdadd]

Put me on the "locked-in" list. I think I will start a new thread to count the locked-in reservations.

[esmith]

Laugh all you want, but anyone can see it with their own eyes from outside the building. There's nothing secret or proprietary about the existence of vehicles that roam public streets uncamouflaged. People were capturing cell phone shots of early 2es from their cars early last fall.

Once again, though, if you go, please don't pester them. They have work to do.

Just because you can see something that looks like X, does not mean that it is X.

If you see a weird light pattern in the sky, it could be a UFO, but it's more likely to be a helicopter or a weather balloon.

If you camp out in front of their office, You may see a weirdly shaped car drive by, but it will not be a 2e, because 2e's don't exist. By their own admission, they won't build the first unit till January 16. Furthermore, given the wait till the official launch (January to October), it is very likely that there will be further design revisions - so the vehicle they build on January 16 won't be a real 2e, either.

[KarenRei]

If you don't want to call it a 2e because, say, it's missing a seat or doesn't have its cupholders installed, fine -- don't. I'll call it a 2e.

[esmith]

If you don't want to call it a 2e because, say, it's missing a seat or doesn't have its cupholders installed, fine -- don't. I'll call it a 2e.

"It" could be as different from a production 2e as it is from the 1.5 year old prototype they've been showing around all this time.

[Sierrasailor53]

This is beginning to smell a lot like Detroit to me. I was ready to prepay as soon as a firm price was given and a delivery date was set. Now I'm feeling fortunate that I'm not locked in after all. When and if this vehicle finally makes it to market, there may be many more better choices than we have now. Aptera had the advantage of being one of the first to hit the market, but now that too is very much in question. I would expect the waiting list to dwindle rather than grow from this point.

[mmalc]

"It" could be as different from a production 2e as it is from the 1.5 year old prototype they've been showing around all this time.
But it's infinitely different from Santa Claus.
Please grow up.

[mweston]

While I like the Aptera, the main reason I have a deposit (electric #250) is that it was expected to be about the first affordable (not Tesla), 2+ seat (not NmG), 3+ wheel (not Vectrix), reasonable range (again not NmG) electric vehicle out there.

Now with production starting 10 months later than previously announced, I wonder what else that meets my needs might be available before the Aptera. Especially since I live in Northern California, which I think is expected to be the third geographical area after San Diego and Los Angeles.

If I could 1) sit in one, and 2) have a guarantee of delivery to me by the end of 2009, I would be willing to do more than just the proposed lock-in: I would be willing to pony up more money and make it non-refundable. But as it is, not so much.

[Apt3448]

While I like the Aptera, the main reason I have a deposit (electric #250) is that it was expected to be about the first affordable (not Tesla), 2+ seat (not NmG), 3+ wheel (not Vectrix), reasonable range (again not NmG) electric vehicle out there.

Now with production starting 10 months later than previously announced, I wonder what else that meets my needs might be available before the Aptera.

I quite agree, that is my thinking, too. But I just don't expect anything else by then: why would Aptera be delayed and the 'else' be early? By the beginning of 2010 there will probably be only one game in town that meets your specs.
As a matter of detail: not so sure if production is that much delayed: they will produce cars AND work on the production process (as well as the 2h, one may assume). I expect production after all those preparations to be smoother and quicker than would have been the case had they started earlier.

[KarenRei]

For what it's worth, I never expected mine (in the 300-400 range) before summer of '09. Now I'd put late fall of '09 as the most likely time. Not that big of a difference, really.

Of course, if all of you keep cancelling, perhaps I'll get it even closer to my original expectation time. ;)

[evmavin]

For what it's worth, I never expected mine (in the 300-400 range) before summer of '09. Now I'd put late fall of '09 as the most likely time. Not that big of a difference, really.

Of course, if all of you keep cancelling, perhaps I'll get it even closer to my original expectation time. ;)


If you expected delivery mid year and the start of production is a minimum of 10 months delayed, how does that give you a delivery date of late fall of 09'? They will deliver 300-400 cars in the first quarter of production? I'm willing to bet you car is not delivered in 09' based on your existing number (unless you skip to the front of the line, etc). Would you like to bet a dinner $100 or less? You can literally put your money where your mouth is, or rather my money perhaps. If you get it in 09' you win. I can even put it in escrow:) If I loose I'm happy as I will be driving mine before that:)

[evho]

evmavin sounds like a gambling sort of guy who likes to soften the harsh blows he delivers with a little :) but I have to agree with him. I think we are all in for a very very long wait :(

[evmavin]

Just being realistic, I know the business well and I have even been in meetings with the top execs of a major German auto maker discussing EV strategy. I'm a staunch EV supporter and promoter but I also look at it realistically from much experience in the industry and from building EV's myself. PS- This is the most gambling I've done in 20 years, I have one a pizza dinner so far and as soon as Karen responds I'm hoping to add a future meal:)

[evho]

So is there real competition from a "major German auto maker" for ev's? That would be exciting:) Only one pizza dinner? I hope it's in NY or Chicago... Regardless, I think we ought to bail on Aptera:( and throw our $$ at Think :) At least they have some history with a quality product. Lots of room for pizzas too :)

[KarenRei]

If you expected delivery mid year and the start of production is a minimum of 10 months delayed, how does that give you a delivery date of late fall of 09'? They will deliver 300-400 cars in the first quarter of production?

Simple: because I never expected the start of "production" to be "volume production"; I expected it to be crawling unit production (I can post half a dozen posts from last year stating as much). I didn't expect any kind of volume production until early summer. Now volume production starts on October 1st. That's 4 months or so delay from what I was expecting.

As for how fast they'll deliver, I expect, given how people have been reacting on this forum, and the state of the economy, that there will ultimately be ~200 2e buyers ahead of me in line. My proxy is SoCal, I'm locked in, very flexible about how they may want to arrange things, and so forth, so if any other factors are taken into account, I'll get it even sooner. We don't know whether any customers will get vehicles during unit production or not at this point, but that could eliminate ~20-50 or so if they do deliver during unit production. Hence, I would consider a date of late November / early December the most likely -- sooner if they sell during unit production and have a significant degree of mass production on October 1, later if they don't and they're only starting setting up mass production then.

I'm willing to bet you car is not delivered in 09' based on your existing number (unless you skip to the front of the line, etc). Would you like to bet a dinner $100 or less?

$100 is out of my range (I don't spend half that much with two people eating out over the course of a *year* ;) ), but I'd buy you a $20 or less plate if I don't get mine in '09 and you do the same for me if I do.

[G.M.]

Your trip will need to be revised or delayed if you get your Aptera in Dec.

If you plan a southern route I would love to tag along. I'll be driving from Cali to Phoenix to Albuquerque.

Of course you might get yours much sooner than me. One way I could see Aptera rewarding people who lock in, while not changing the spots of place holders who have a deposit, but not a locked deposit, is this:

Lets say I'm number 370 and you are number 367 (made up numbers, but close to our real ones).

Your locked in. I'm not.

Now Aptera is making cars and they say, hey, number 350 your car is ready to be made. Number 350 says, no thanks, I want my money back. Now numbers 351 through 366 are not locked in, so Aptera emails number 367 and says, hey, number 350 bailed, do you want their spot.

Nobody was "pushed" back. Number 351 is still asked at number 351. It is just that 367 jumped into 350's vacated spot.

Not saying this will happen. But it could and it would still be legit.

Eh, who knows. Personally I'm not locked in so I kinda hope everyone just moves up equally.

G.M.


100 a year?? Dang, with my wife and me and two kids (and boyfriends that miraculously show up at dinner time) I usually drop 100 each time we go out (usually twice a week).

[evmavin]

Your trip will need to be revised or delayed if you get your Aptera in Dec.

If you plan a southern route I would love to tag along. I'll be driving from Cali to Phoenix to Albuquerque.

Of course you might get yours much sooner than me. One way I could see Aptera rewarding people who lock in, while not changing the spots of place holders who have a deposit, but not a locked deposit, is this:

Lets say I'm number 370 and you are number 367 (made up numbers, but close to our real ones).

Your locked in. I'm not.

Now Aptera is making cars and they say, hey, number 350 your car is ready to be made. Number 350 says, no thanks, I want my money back. Now numbers 351 through 366 are not locked in, so Aptera emails number 367 and says, hey, number 350 bailed, do you want their spot.

Nobody was "pushed" back. Number 351 is still asked at number 351. It is just that 367 jumped into 350's vacated spot.

Not saying this will happen. But it could and it would still be legit.

Eh, who knows. Personally I'm not locked in so I kinda hope everyone just moves up equally.

G.M.


100 a year?? Dang, with my wife and me and two kids (and boyfriends that miraculously show up at dinner time) I usually drop 100 each time we go out (usually twice a week).


FYI- We don't use the term "Cali" here in California, it is not good:( At least if you are native:) Same as things like "Frisco" Oh no! Anyway, post away:)

[evmavin]

Ok Karen- you're on. You pay $20 I'll pay $20. Although I think you may get more food for your money if you win:)

[evho]

$100 is out of my range (I don't spend half that much with two people eating out over the course of a *year*

Yikes! BK Lounge anyone?? ;) Just kiddin' Karen!

[G.M.]

FYI- We don't use the term "Cali" here in California, it is not good At least if you are native Same as things like "Frisco" Oh no! Anyway, post away

Ha, born and raised in Santa Monica. 3rd Street. Wonderful childhood of being an early skate punk in the 60's. Lived in Berkeley in the 70's. Many trips to "the city." Hippy parents, cat named Love, VW camper in the front.

I call it Cali because it bugs my family there.

G.M.

[evmavin]

Probably not just them, peace:)

[KarenRei]

$100 is out of my range (I don't spend half that much with two people eating out over the course of a *year*

Yikes! BK Lounge anyone?? ;) Just kiddin' Karen!

We only eat out on special occasions or when someone else is paying (such as my parents). I think the last time we paid for a meal eating out was last February for Valentine's day. Although that may have been on a gift card.

What can I say, I like to cook. :)

[evho]

Dinner with the $ rents...sounds like a good time. Are they going to let you drive across country all by yourself? Bring your bunsen burner 'cause food's 'spensive out there...

[KarenRei]

Your trip will need to be revised or delayed if you get your Aptera in Dec.

If you plan a southern route I would love to tag along. I'll be driving from Cali to Phoenix to Albuquerque.

Indeed, when and where I go will depend strongly on the date I get my car, and all options are on the table -- not only route changes, but even including leaving the car in CA for a couple months and coming in the following spring/summer. There will almost certainly need to be some adjustments -- for example, the Mount Evans climb is only generally open May to September, and some of the passes near Telluride/Ouray don't usually open until June or even July.

[KarenRei]

Dinner with the $ rents...sounds like a good time. Are they going to let you drive across country all by yourself? Bring your bunsen burner 'cause food's 'spensive out there...

We're not bringing bunsen burners; we're bringing a Coleman Xtreme stove and a Snow Peak stove. ;)

We always travel cheap. Our general cross country driving trip involves packing all of the food we're going to need that we can eat along the way or stopping at grocery stores along the way. For air travel, we bring dry snacks/meals in our carryons, and I always bring a camelback water bladder (which I fill past security) and some powdered drink mix.

I'm a walking ball of contrast with my parents, who it usually seems are trying to singlehandedly prop up the US economy.

[evho]

Karen, you are too sensitive to be a moderator. All in jest, my dear. Good for you that you are able to save money and follow TSA guidelines. Good luck on your journey sans parental control! :jumping0007: Have fun!

[G.M.]

I'm a walking ball of contrast with my parents, who it usually seems are trying to singlehandedly prop up the US economy.

Ha, my mom (the ex hippie) sez the same about me. "Dang G, without you the economy would be trashed," is her common refrain when she sees me with a new gadget or computer or whatever. Heck, not gonna live forever, might as well spend it now.

Though I don't have the coin of a CEO, I do my fair share.


G.M.

[KarenRei]

Karen, you are too sensitive to be a moderator. All in jest, my dear. Good for you that you are able to save money and follow TSA guidelines. Good luck on your journey sans parental control! :jumping0007: Have fun!

Notice the ;) ?

:happy0025:

[evho]

It's all good. Peace, love and ev for the New Year! :)

[skytug]

Considering the probable street price of $25,000-30,000 per vehicle, I find a piddling "$250 off" of no consequence one way or the other. It's not even worth taking action on to accept or reject. It is, however, somewhat revealing of the thinking process of "The Aptera Team."

An offer of 10% off might have captured my attention, at which point I would start asking the obvious questions that the rest of you are debating.

For now, I think I will just sit back and watch the show.

[roflwaffle]

FYI- We don't use the term "Cali" here in California, it is not good:( At least if you are native:)I was born here and lived here all my life and never heard anything like that, must be a rich person thing. :rolleye0003:

[jstdadd]

The Governator is the only one who is allowed to say: 'Cali'...and he usually takes a breath and then says "forn-eee-ya"

[G.M.]

Naw, calling it Cali makes the state seem a bit flighty. Which it is. Embrace your blonde, beachy roots, you are beautiful just the way you are.

Maybe I just spent too many hours on Santa Monica beach as a kid. Can't remember how many times I had heat stoke and was thrown into an ice bath at the end of the day to get my temperature to a livable level. MMMM, all those brain cells fried.

G.M.

[KarenRei]

When we were down in CA on my business trip, I remember being told by an old man on a bus to pronounce Vista as "viss-tah", after we had been calling it "vee-stah" -- he said it makes you sound like a tourist when you pronounce it that way (he then told us how to pronounce some other cities that we already knew, apparently worried that we'd try to pronounce spanish 'j's as 'j's instead of 'h's) or 'lls' as 'l' instead of 'y').

The thing that bugs me about that is... isn't "Vista" a Spanish name, too? I.e., "View"? That's "vee-stah" in Spanish, no? So why is it, say, "la hoy-ah", but not "vee-stah"?

[esmith]

Maybe I just spent too many hours on Santa Monica beach as a kid. Can't remember how many times I had heat stoke and was thrown into an ice bath at the end of the day to get my temperature to a livable level.

They should've just trown you into the ocean ... With water rarely above 65 F, that's the only the ice bath you need in SoCal.

[G.M.]

They should've just trown you into the ocean ... With water rarely above 65 F, that's the only the ice bath you need in SoCal.

Gotta get out of the sun first, then ice bath.

MMMM, I miss the beach. Venice was, and still is, just a dang fun place to be.

G.M.

[G.M.]

When we were down in CA on my business trip, I remember being told by an old man on a bus to pronounce Vista as "viss-tah", after we had been calling it "vee-stah" -- he said it makes you sound like a tourist when you pronounce it that way (he then told us how to pronounce some other cities that we already knew, apparently worried that we'd try to pronounce spanish 'j's as 'j's instead of 'h's) or 'lls' as 'l' instead of 'y').

The thing that bugs me about that is... isn't "Vista" a Spanish name, too? I.e., "View"? That's "vee-stah" in Spanish, no? So why is it, say, "la hoy-ah", but not "vee-stah"?

Hey, what I love is we have a local newscaster named Jeremy Jaramillo. Pronounced Jeremy Haramio (double lls are silent). Why isn't it Heremy?

Language is funny. We will all be speaking Blade Runner slangish not to long from now. Which is cool with me. I just waiting for my flying car and laser pistol. The Aptera is just a stop gap for me till that flying car comes around. :)

G.M.

[KarenRei]

Hey, what I love is we have a local newscaster named Jeremy Jaramillo. Pronounced Jeremy Haramio (double lls are silent). Why isn't it Heremy?

Double lls are silent? They're not in Spanish. "Cómo te llamas" is pronounced "coe-moe tey yah-mahs", not "coe-moe tey ah-mahs". Well, unless you're from Argentina, where 'll' is pronounced "sh". When we had an Argentinian guest staying with us for a couple months, it took a while for me to get used to "ella" being pronounced "eh-shah" and so forth ;) My Spanish is bad enough as it is without that complication!

[G.M.]

Y or silent.

Or maybe just said so fast the Y seems silent.

G.M.

[roflwaffle]

Jeremy is an English name while Jaramillo is Spanish. I suppose Jeremiah could be Jeremías, w/ their respective English and Spanish pronunciations, but Jeremy is all English AFAIK. :happy0025:

[OC-LA driver]

Hi Karen,

Vista is an English word as well as a Spanish word. Probably came to English from Latin via Spanish. Local Anglos pronounce it as English. Not sure how local Hispanics pronounce it.

The other names you mentioned are Spanish words that haven't made it into the English language so pronunciation is always Spanish

I studied French in college so definitely needed remedial pronunciation education when I got here, I made all the classic tourist verbal gaffes

[butter]

Hi Karen,

Vista is an English word as well as a Spanish word. Probably came to English from Latin via Spanish. Local Anglos pronounce it as English. Not sure how local Hispanics pronounce it.

The other names you mentioned are Spanish words that haven't made it into the English language so pronunciation is always Spanish

First of all, to say that "Vista" is an English word is like saying "taco" or "sushi" are English words. I understand that many words of foreign origin make their way into American English vernacular, and end up being pronounced in a totally Americanized way.

But Karen's question about why there is no consistency in pronunciation between Vista and La Jolla is fairly valid. I can't answer that in specifics, but I can point out that this is just how it is in LA (and most likely the rest of CA as well as the southwestern U.S.). For instance, one could ask why we don't pronounce Los Angeles "lohs AHN-he-les."

Anyone who has any knowledge of Spanish vocabulary and grammar would note that there are examples of weird Spanglish proper nouns galore around here. Take the neighborhood of Los Feliz, for example. I'm sorry, but that makes no sense whatsoever. So why bother pronouncing it "correctly"? People say "lahs FEE-liz," and in my opinion it's better that way. Why "lahs VAY-guhs" and not "lahs BEH-gas"? Maybe because otherwise you'd sound pretentious.

There is a major street in Los Angeles named La Cienega. The word "cienega" doesn't exist! It's "ciénaga." [with a penultimate A, not E]

Anyway, these are totally random examples of the haphazard mixing of English and Spanish words and there truly is no rhyme or reason to when we choose to pronounce things a bit more closely to the original, when we choose to say it completely Americanized, and when, well, anything else in between, I guess.

Slightly randomly, a friend from Boston came over and pronounced Wilshire Blvd. as "WILL-shy-er." As anyone in socal knows, we say "WILL-shir." So, it even happens in English.

P.S. It happens to anyone who is not from the region. I myself have mispronounced/overpronounced many a Spanish proper noun (cities, roads, neighborhoods, gated communities) while visiting areas in California I'd never been to before.

[mmalc]

Slightly randomly, a friend from Boston came over and pronounced Wilshire Blvd. as "WILL-shy-er." As anyone in socal knows, we say "WILL-shir." So, it even happens in English.
When I first heard the name, I assumed it would be spelt "Wiltshire"...

Now if someone from LA named a road after a city slightly southwest from where I grew up (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worcester), I'd expect it to be called "Wusster Avenue" or somesuch...

(This is why Brits are so good at Scrabble -- always adding extra letters in where you wouldn't expect thezm.)