Advanced Navigation Computer.

[kyledouglas]

We're continually tossing around ideas about ways to further improve your experience behind the wheel of an Aptera. Currently, we're working on a technology that combines GPS and Internet capabilities, allowing the computer system in your future 2e to function much like an iPhone.

Imagine this: you decide you want to see the Clint Eastwood flick "Gran Torino" after work. Our new technology will let you type in the movie title on your 2e's computer and it will list all of the theaters between work and home where the movie is playing. Not only that, you can then purchase the tickets right from your vehicle.

The system can show you routes to your desired destinations, as well as how far you can travel before your charge runs out. You can press another button and find all the charging stations along your route. And the best part is you can download new applications to enhance your driving experience even more.

The technology is still in the development phase, but we're very excited about it and thought you would be as well.

Lets not forget that StreetDeck (the navigation system used by Aptera) is voice activated.

Now, the ramifications of this type of implementation are:
-A constant internet connection.
-An application "store"
-Traffic Updates (for accurate energy evaluation)

A glance at the possibilities:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MT5_1HQjdIQ

Once Aptera has this technology, I believe that its of up most importance that they include it on EVERY Aptera.

[garygid]

Might not be a constant Internet connection unless you have
full Internet service on your cell phone.

It might include a Wifi connection, but one is less often in range
of a connection that one has permission to use.

Might not be StreetDeck.

Might be a $2000 option.

[kyledouglas]

Might be a $2000 option.

Alas, you may be right.

It feels, to me, that this is EXACTLY what the average consumer needs to make the 2e viable.

People shouldn't have to evaluate there mileage and charge.

Maybe things like fandango will sync while the car is in the garage... but how will you purchase tickets?

What Aptera seems to be suggesting is more inclusive.

[Edit] Aptera needs to make the solar assisted climate control an option. This is much more important!

[kyledouglas]

unless you have
full Internet service on your cell phone.

This is an interesting concept, but most phones don't allow tethering.

I think it would be good if Aptera arranged a partnership similar to that of Peek and T-mobile. The Peek company creates the device and T-Mobile services it with an internet connection for $20 a month.

The computer could use wifi for large data transfer (updated maps, facebook syncing, music syncing, fandango) and the constant connection could be used for things like, purchasing tickets.

If there is an open SDK, I will create my dream, my Aptera will inform my house of my arrival, and turn on the lights and music. :jumping0001:

[KarenRei]

By the way -- their system for showing you how far you can drive appears to be quite simplistic:

http://www.meydad.com/wp-content/gallery/aptera/aptera-dashboard.jpg

That's just a couple concentric circles overlain on Google Maps. It doesn't seem to take into account terrain, roads, or anything of that nature. So it's *not* what I've been working on; I guess I jumped the gun a bit on that one. :) Don't worry about them wasting time -- that's just a couple lines of javascript on top of your basic Google Maps API page. Probably a GScreenOverlay or two GPolygons. I could whip up something like that in an hour.

[A1phaGeek]

Might not be a constant Internet connection unless you have
full Internet service on your cell phone.
My guess is that the Nav will have an option to be connected with a cellular modem with a data plan. It will NOT rely on your cell phone I doubt it will be WiFi enabled.

It might include a Wifi connection, but one is less often in range
of a connection that one has permission to use.WiFI is an extremely poor choice for a moving vehicle. It would use vast amounts of battery trying to connect to 5-100 access points per mile. None of these would be in range long enough to matter, and 99.999 would be access points you do not have permission to access. From a power and a legal (theft of service) perspective this would be a no-go.

Might not be StreetDeck. I agree here. I'm guessing they have chosen a new vendor, but I can find any fact to back up my gut feelings.

Might be a $2000 option. I will be an expensive option, no matter what the exact cost. This will NOT come standard on the base model. It WILL cost much more than an iPhone, which can do all of the same things. The cheaper iPhone can be used while you are in the restaurant on the way to see the movie, so you can invite friends to join you.

[iwannaptera]

I have to say, that if Karen's aptera range simulator comes as an iPhone or palm pre app, I know exactly which phone I am getting next....

[speculawyer]

I have to say, that if Karen's aptera range simulator comes as an iPhone or palm pre app, I know exactly which phone I am getting next....
I think Karen's improved version requires lots of map data and lots of computation power.

However, one could pre-compute a lot of the data and allow less granularity . . . and it might work. Hmmm. Interesting.

[KarenRei]

The gigs of map data and the needed computation power are all on the server side. All the client needs to be able to do is run Google Maps.

The structure is that there's an HTML frontend that has a Google Maps API key and calls Google Maps functions. When the user picks a vehicle, enters their route, optionally customizes their settings, and hits "simulate", a series of javascript functions call POST on an iframe form. A complex server-side simulator on my server takes all of their input data and crunches the numbers. As it goes, it generates graphs and prints out status reports, wrapped in Javascript functions, which the client receives. The functions get run on the client whenever it sees them, and they tell the Google Maps API what to draw and where, as well as fetching the latest graphs from the server.

My current server (just my home PC -- and it's no speed demon) can handle about five to ten simulations at once without slowing down. If demand becomes too great (i.e., 10k+ simulations per day), then I'd consider the program to be a wild success and worth adding some dedicated servers. ;) A $800 homebuilt quad-core 2.5GHz system with the heightmap data saved on solid state drives should easily be able to handle hundreds of thousands of simulations per day.

[greenerist]

I was wondering if the onboard computer would be using a version of Android since Google is an investor now instead of Streetdeck? Also would be cool if my Aptera was tied to my google or outlook calendar and email or text to remind me to charge my vehicle if I had an appointment that was like 50miles away or something.

[speculawyer]

I was wondering if the onboard computer would be using a version of Android since Google is an investor now instead of Streetdeck? Also would be cool if my Aptera was tied to my google or outlook calendar and email or text to remind me to charge my vehicle if I had an appointment that was like 50miles away or something.
Well, it was probably too late to do such a big design change.

[LQUAN]

Folks, the mobile computer used by StreetDeck is not as powerful as your desktops, not even laptops. Quadcore? you wish. At best you get 900MHz RISK or ARM processors running on MS Windows Mobile.

I have seen Lexus with Google map with live weather and traffic info. I wonder if you have to pay a monthly charge for this service on your vehicle?

[KarenRei]

Folks, the mobile computer used by StreetDeck is not as powerful as your desktops, not even laptops. Quadcore? you wish. At best you get 900MHz RISK or ARM processors running on MS Windows Mobile.

I have seen Lexus with Google map with live weather and traffic info. I wonder if you have to pay a monthly charge for this service on your vehicle?

Server, LQUAN, server! :happy0025: This is a client-server application. I'll repeat that to run my route simulator, the *client* only needs to be able to run Google Maps. A quad-core *server* with the heightmap data on solid state drives should be able to *serve* hundreds of thousands of simulations per day. The server is not in the vehicle; it's thousands of miles away! :)

Example of the distinction: Google has server farms whose computers are so powerful that they use enough power to run a small city, but even the most underpowered web client can use google. Google's server farms are what's doing all the heavy lifting when you use it to search the net, not your browser.

If you're wondering whether I could make an offline version, one that doesn't require net access... um, maybe? I've heard of something called "ogmaps", which is designed to let you take Google Maps offline. I have no idea how well it works or whether it allows the full suite of API features or not (or whether it's even in violation of Google's terms of service or not). If it did work, and there was interest in developing this, the biggest constraint would be disk space. The state of California alone, even in my compressed heightmap format, takes up around 4 gigs. And add to that all of the Google Maps imagery data, which is probably notably more. If my somewhat dated computer can run several simulations at a time, I think even an underpowered mobile processor should be able to run one simulation at a time, but you're going to need a fair amount of disk space.

The alternative to ogmaps would be to basically reimplement Google Maps. I have access to the relevant data they use -- there's more than enough available at the USGS seamless server -- but that's way more in depth than I'd like to get without a salary ;)

[KarenRei]

I was wondering if the onboard computer would be using a version of Android since Google is an investor now instead of Streetdeck? Also would be cool if my Aptera was tied to my google or outlook calendar and email or text to remind me to charge my vehicle if I had an appointment that was like 50miles away or something.

Well, all I can say is that it looks like it's able to run Google Maps at the very least. That sure appears to be a Google Maps overlay.

[kyledouglas]

I cannot believe Aptera is choosing to make the Solar Assisted Climate Control standard, whilst omitting the onboard computer system.

[kyledouglas]

http://www.meydad.com/wp-content/gallery/aptera/aptera-dashboard.jpg

They are using Apples Home Folder icon.

Its the iCar!

[Matthijs]

Karen maybe you can setup your simulator as a service that can be used. I would be willing to pay for such a service because it looks very powerful to me. :)

[iwannaptera]

The gigs of map data and the needed computation power are all on the server side. All the client needs to be able to do is run Google Maps. [...snip...] If demand becomes too great (i.e., 10k+ simulations per day), then I'd consider the program to be a wild success and worth adding some dedicated servers. ;) A $800 homebuilt quad-core 2.5GHz system with the heightmap data saved on solid state drives should easily be able to handle hundreds of thousands of simulations per day.

If you are generating 10k+ simulation requests per day from iPhone users and charging $5.99 for the iphone app (seems to be an average price), then you will probably have made around $60,000 which is enough to finance the trip, the car, and the extra servers. Add a nominal ($5/year) subscription to the service and you have a real (viable as an ongoing concern) side business!

I say, GO FOR IT.:jumping0007:

Your only real issue will be if someone tries to copy your code and undercut you. Software patents are expensive to get and provide limited protection, but you might wish to consider it. I know nothing of software patents, but could suggest someone if you are interested. I am not a lawyer. This is not legal advice etc. PM me. Regardless, it seems that any "big" player besides aptera itself would consider the market too niche to bother you.

[Tamerlin]

I cannot believe Aptera is choosing to make the Solar Assisted Climate Control standard, whilst omitting the onboard computer system.

Wow, I can't think of many things more useless than a vehicle with a computer system. You think people are getting killed by talking on cell phones while driving? Well then, let's give them a computer!

Nothing would make me request my deposit back quicker than having to pay for any kind of navigation system.

[kyledouglas]

Wow, I can't think of many things more useless than a vehicle with a computer system. You think people are getting killed by talking on cell phones while driving? Well then, let's give them a computer!

Nothing would make me request my deposit back quicker than having to pay for any kind of navigation system.


A computer system would be an extension of the cars intelligence. Not to mention, its not a conventional computer, and its voice activated, therefore, less distracting than a radio. Its important to know if your charge is sufficient for any given trip.

Not to mention, think of how many peoples lives are saved by services like OnStar.

[iwannaptera]

Not to mention, think of how many peoples lives are saved by services like OnStar.

Out of the 100s of thousands of vehicles on the road that have at one time or another had onstar service, I would guess that there have probably been less than 10 lives actually saved. I tried googling but only found onstar press releases.... Even in the commercials its usually "Hi OnStar I'm lost in a scary neighborhood, help me drive out of it" or "Hi Driver I see that you have just had a terrible accident and dispatched the police/ambulance (meanwhile passersby are doing the same thing)"

[KarenRei]

Assuming it still has the gesture interface, it's probably not exactly what you're thinking. You don't have to look at the screen when you do gestures. For example, if you want to skip to the next track in your music, you don't have to find the "next" button -- you just make the "next" gesture. Concerning maps, it's probably just like a Garmin or other GPS nav device. My parents have one of those and it's pretty neat to have -- more aide than distraction, esp. with voice.

[KarenRei]

Out of the 100s of thousands of vehicles on the road that have at one time or another had onstar service, I would guess that there have probably been less than 10 lives actually saved. I tried googling but only found onstar press releases.... Even in the commercials its usually "Hi OnStar I'm lost in a scary neighborhood, help me drive out of it" or "Hi Driver I see that you have just had a terrible accident and dispatched the police/ambulance (meanwhile passersby are doing the same thing)"

Great... now you've got me thinking of Jesus Christ Supercop, Ep 5 (http://ny.channel101.com/media2/show_12/show_12_epno_5/jesus_christ_supercop_5.mov) (2:00 to 2:30). ;)

[kyledouglas]

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autobloggreen.com/media/2009/02/aptera-2e-at-ted-12.jpg

0_o

[RainCaster]

Gesture Interface? I have seen many drivers who use such a scheme already. We certainly don't need a computer for that...

[kyledouglas]

(via an internet database that Aptera and its nav supplier will be maintaining. No word on if it will be crowd-sourced).


I guess I was right!

[n_dawg]

Looks like they're also using apple's iTunes and iPhoto icons…

Placeholders, for sure.

[grantb3]

Well this could be the kiss of death for Aptera. Worse than being 90" wide. Talk about a technological black hole. I hope they have enough cash for 50 firmware engineers. I just participated in a well-funded, internet-connected GPS beta program that took over a year and ended with the company hanging on by a thread. Give me a consumer nav any day. $2k for a manufacturer nav that will eventually be so outdated that it'll date the rest of the car.

The only worse news I can think of is that there might be a gas version.

Oh, and I hear that doctors are now going to be selling cigarettes...
:sad0126:

[KarenRei]

Well this could be the kiss of death for Aptera. Worse than being 90" wide. Talk about a technological black hole. I hope they have enough cash for 50 firmware engineers. I just participated in a well-funded, internet-connected GPS beta program that took over a year and ended with the company hanging on by a thread. Give me a consumer nav any day. $2k for a manufacturer nav that will eventually be so outdated that it'll date the rest of the car.

The only worse news I can think of is that there might be a gas version.

Oh, and I hear that doctors are now going to be selling cigarettes...
:sad0126:

What do you mean? Aptera isn't making this nav system; a company called "Automaptics" (sp?) is.

[Ceazar77]

I keep trying to hear it ... but Automaptics (http://www.automaptics.com) keeps sounding like automatix to me.

The more I look over their site, the more it looks like Automaptics makes sence:


AutoMaptics sees the opportunity in providing a suite of services to vertical markets becoming a dominant vehicle for delivering real-time local content to consumers via applications and presentations that are tailored to each vertical market. We truly believe that our success is measured based on the revenue which our solutions generate and as such our Business model is based on true partnership of sharing revenue with our partners across the board.

We leverage the evolution of new broadband technologies and the demand for always-on connection. This will allow AutoMaptics to gather and present local content to anyone, anywhere, anytime using a broad array of client platforms including PC’s, laptops, PDA’s, Cell Phones and other mobile and embedded devices in automobiles, planes, conference rooms, hotel lobbies, etc.

We are delighted when we find and forge relationships with business partners who are kindred spirits. We are committed to building and retaining strong strategic alliances who are best-in-breed in their own industries and who share with us the passion of enabling local merchants and points of interest to showcase themselves online. For more information regarding how to become a partner with Automaptics please contact us.

[kyledouglas]

Quote from http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FhglCTWMDQ&eurl=http://www.apteraforum.com/showthread.php?p=27114&feature=player_embedded
Have you picked a carrier for the...
Yes, and that carrier happens to be downloadable for your iPhone.

Whoa, talk about a slap in the face to Google!

The Aptera's onboard computer will use a wifi connection to
wirelessly connect to the Aptera App in the iPhone to supply the Aptera with a data connection.

GPS navigation, CD/MP3/DVD player

This means that maps will not be wirelessly downloaded, they will be on DVD.

Truly exciting stuff. :jumping0001:

[Matthijs]

According to this picture it's not "Automaptics" but "Automatiks".

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/4900/15224414.jpg

And this is their site: http://www.automatiks.com/ No info at all. Does anyone know more about this company?

[KarenRei]

Yes, that's been noted.
No, we don't know anything else.

[Matthijs]

hmm it seems i missed this thread Link (http://apteraforum.com/showthread.php?t=2297)

[Monev]

If I recall correctly the Aptera has built in wifi. I'd like to see Aptera relase and app for the iPhone that allows me to check the status of my car where ever I am. I'd like to know how much energy it has and if it's plugged in how much time it will take to fully charge. Maybe a way to regulate the climate control so it's not always on, but if i know I have to drive somewhere I can turn it on 15 minutes in advance.

[n_dawg]

The Aptera's onboard computer will use a wifi connection to
wirelessly connect to the Aptera App in the iPhone to supply the Aptera with a data connection.

Being an iPhone developer myself, I sincerely doubt that AT&T would allow that. Also, why would you want to tie it to a product that some people won't have the option of getting or won't want? I think he was trying to say that it will be functionally similar to an iPhone.


This means that maps will not be wirelessly downloaded, they will be on DVD.

And how did you come to this conclusion? Just because it has a DVD drive doesn't mean the maps will be on DVD. If they're gonna do that now-adays hey might as well put them on 8-tracks.

[thimel]

If I recall correctly the Aptera has built in wifi. I'd like to see Aptera relase and app for the iPhone that allows me to check the status of my car where ever I am. I'd like to know how much energy it has and if it's plugged in how much time it will take to fully charge. Maybe a way to regulate the climate control so it's not always on, but if i know I have to drive somewhere I can turn it on 15 minutes in advance.

From Josh's interview of Aptera folks at the TED conference in Long Beach:

OK, most impressive of all is to a gadget geek like me is the companion iPhone app. It's actually just a moble app (web-based), not a native iphone downloadable app. From your smartphone you can see the car's location, it's charge state, you can adjust its charge time, change several varaibles for the car (they didn't show me many). You can see the range given the charge level, with the concentric rings as described above. You can pre-cool or pre-heat the car from your phone, etc. Very very cool. If you're about to drive home while at work, you could check it's charge level and range, make sure you will make it, pre-cool the car, even enter a destination or waypoint... all from your iPhone before you even go to the garage.


Here is the link to Josh's thread: http://www.apteraforum.com/showthread.php?p=26233&highlight=smart+phone+charge#post26233

So they have plans to do things like you want. They plan to do it via the cell phone network, not with WiFi.

[jstdadd]

I for one am not interested in paying $45 or more per month for a computer networking service for a computer in a vehicle that I will have less than $45 net fuel cost per month. It just seems silly to me. I'll go home to surf the web.

Now, if I could use my Sprint phone as a network access device, then I don't have any additional costs. Suddenly all the techno-stuff at least doesn't cost me a 'per month' additional charge.

[jkyu99]

or like my kindle. one purchase price up front. unlimited evdo connections for the life of the kindle, lets me surf the internet without monthly fees.

[jstdadd]

or like my kindle. one purchase price up front. unlimited evdo connections for the life of the kindle, lets me surf the internet without monthly fees.

As long as the 'purchase price' ('subscription price?') would be reasonable, I think that would be an excellent model. We can hope!

[Matthijs]

It seems the ThInk City is going to have the same telematic system as the Aptera. From a blog (http://blog.storybridge.org/2008/09/think-mobility-as-service.html) in September 2008:

Last week I met Dipender Saluja of automatiks (http://www.automatiks.com/) a Silicon Valley startup who are innovating in vehicle navigation and in-car computing. Saluja had with
him two Think models - the new Think Open convertible prototype, and the current model Think City.

I found a youtube video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4kkzBliWH4) (with really the scariest music I ever heard) with the system running in it already. No system was available or installed in the one I drove some time back. Dipender Saluja is CEO of automatiks and is involved with Think Global. Here are some screenshots from Silverfish Design Studio (http://www.svish.com/2008/03/think-city/) who did some UI design for Think to fit the automatiks system. One screenshot shows the possibility to do remote charging.

How does Think know about the battery condition? The car is internet enabled. As well as Think factories being able to keep tabs on it, so can you - battery charge levels can be checked remotely, and you can send Google maps to the cars on-board computer to be used in its navigation system.
Nice feature for Aptera as well to have info for maintenance.

http://www.svish.com/wp-content/gallery/think/03.jpgEdit: Lol they took the screenshots offsite the day after this post. Google Cache (http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache%3Awww.svish.com%2F2008%2F03%2Fthink -city%2F&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a)http://www.svish.com/wp-content/gallery/think/09.jpg

[SEGsby]

Aptera could sell a customized SDK for developers, too. This would be another way to make money from the vehicle, and have others expand the software potential of the onboard computer.

Hmm... Where are those t-shirts and caps? :logo:

[jstdadd]

Aptera could sell a customized SDK for developers, too. This would be another way to make money from the vehicle, and have others expand the software potential of the onboard computer.

Hmm... Where are those t-shirts and caps? :logo:


At the San Diego event, Marques McCammon, within easy reach of Fambro and Wilbur, said the Aptera Shop would be open 'within a month'.

So I, being my normal, sarcastic and irrespectful self, yelled out: "So, June, Right?", which was met with ugly stares and silence. I crack myself up.:character0029:

So, we'll see...

[Matthijs]

Peapod will use iPhone as nav system, green driving advisor, and - huh? - a key (http://www.autobloggreen.com/2009/04/17/peapod-will-use-iphone-as-nav-system-key-and-green-driving-advi/)

Other companies are also getting into the market place with alternatives to your standard TomTom.