c0mp13x
02-22-2008, 02:56 PM
As we all sit patiently for new information from Aptera, some of you may have missed Steve Fambro's comments on a AutoblogGreen article back in October. Some interesting tidbits of info including confirmation that the windows will roll down (not just flip out, like the back of a mini-van).
Original article link at the bottom.
67. Hello All,
Lot's of good points brought up here that I'd like to personally address, and use later for the 'ask Aptera' portion of our website.
First, thanks to all of the Aptera supporters here! It's great for our team to see the positive comments. For the folks with questions, or even unfavorable comments, I'm listening, and I'd like to address your concerns.
The Website: Let me just say that more information is coming; data, pictures, specs, crash test info, please be patient..it's on its way. We've also changed the yet-to-be released website to be more navigable, while giving folks the option for the creative experience.
Aptera, the company: We're a small company, 15 full time employees. We've been very private with our contact information as, well, we just don't have the resources to receive unannounced visitors, or field numerous phone calls. We will, we just don't right now. We operate from a 15,000 ft^2 research center in Carlsbad, it's about 4 miles from the ocean. One of our first investors was/is Idealab of Pasadena, CA. http://www.idealab.com ...so we're here to stay.
Pre-orders: The best way for us to gage interest in the Aptera, and the ratio of all electric vs a range-extended electric was to allow customers to reserve their production slot and choose the configuration that best suited them. We're not raising money with pre-orders as some of our contemporaries have done, we're using the $500 deposit as a legitimate means of reserving your Aptera, but also as a vetting process to prevent an over-enthusiastic supporter from clicking the 'electric' or 'hybrid' button 1000 times and skewing the data. Having genuine pre-orders helps us better plan and gives us clearer focus with investors. The deposits are fully refundable at ANY time. They're held in escrow by 'authorize.net' ...we can't even touch them.
Vehicle: Well, the Aptera was designed from the ground up as an electric vehicle (and later as an extended range electric vehicle). After building the proof of concept Mk-0, (the vehicle that's shown in the youtube videos) we hired an automotive design firm to help us take the concept vehicle to manufacturing. That firm was 'eleven', http://www.designby11.com with Jason Hill and Nathan Armstrong. They were responsible for the design and styling, interior design and body engineering while we did the computational fluid dynamics on the body, designed the custom electronics, the suspension and drivetrain elements and composites. All of this stuff was developed in-house exclusively by Aptera for the Aptera typ-1. Structural elements, or anything that carries a load has gone through countless revisions of FEA to be both lightweight, as robust as needed, and manufacturable. The structure is mostly composite and is manufactured in such a way that has performance characteristics as good as autoclaved parts.
Windows: For expediency and several other reasons, we elected NOT to include roll-down windows on the first two typ-1/Mk-1 prototypes. There are two window roll-down strategies in competition here at Aptera, and the winning strategy will be implemented on subsequent prototypes. Again, the main reason was time and cost in the concept build. As an aside, all of the glass on the Aptera typ-1 prototype is laminated automotive safety glass, even the glass covering the solar cells on the roof! It was easier (though heavier) for the prototypes to have all laminated glass rather than some tempered and some laminated. Thankfully, the prototypes have air conditioning and a micro-climate flow control system that runs autonomously when the vehicle is parked or underway. In warm weather it keeps the cockpit close to ambient and uses a fraction of the power generated by the solar cells. It also drastically reduces the load of the air conditioner, thus we're able to use a smaller system.
Safety in design: Based on our wheel layout and our weight, the Aptera typ-1 is registered as a motorcyle. In fact, Aptera is a motorcycle manufacturer registered with DOT and CA DMV, which means, amongst other things, we issue VIN's. Our 'world identifier number' is '5WT', so all of our VIN's begin with '5WT', and we've issued two so far. Now, being a motorcycle manufacturer Aptera has a lot of flexibility in its approach to safety, and it's because so that we've made the decision a long time ago to make safety a core part of the design. As a small example, the typ-1 roof is designed to EXCEED rollover strength requirements spelled out in FMVSS 216 for passenger vehicles. The doors EXCEED the strength requirement spelled out in FMVSS 214, so on and so forth. We decided not just to meet many of the specs for passenger vehicles which are set above and beyond that of motorcycles, but we chose to exceed them whenever possible. Airbag-in seatbelt technology, a front subframe and firewall that redirect energy around the occupants are all just a few of the many parts of the safety systems on the typ-1, in addition to exceeding as much of the FMVSS as possible.
Crash testing: Aptera has been quietly working with CD-Adapco and ABAQUS for approximately the past six months conducting frontal offset crash test simulation. Using these incredibly powerful tools, this process will allow us to continue refine and test in software performing numerous 'crashes' on computer before we corroborate the data with a real test. It's a much faster, and less expensive process than using only 'physical models'. The typ-1 is performing beautifully in the process, and when it's appropriate we'll upload the associated video and pictures to the website. We begin our side-impact phase sometime in the next two months and have a high degree of confidence that we'll have similar results.
Powertrain/Energy: The typ-1 uses a commoditized, 'ruggedized' off-the-shelf 3-phase motor controller designed for vehicular applications, and a 3-phase motor made for us by a company here in southern California. The rear drive suspension, the drive reduction are all designed and made by Aptera. We're reasonably close in announcing which battery company we're partnering with, but for a variety of reasons it's not appropriate for us to discuss it at this time. Having said that, let me say this: The typ-1e (electric) anf the typ-1h (series plug in hybrid) have different battery needs and this *may* result in different battery chemistries and different manufacturers for the two models. The typ-1e is designed to use a 10 KWh pack, while the typ-1h uses a smaller pack. The cycles and DOD are different for both applications. We look forward to articulating the battery lifespan and warranty policy to the public well before we begin manufacturing the typ-1 next October. There was also some confusion concerning Diesel or Gasoline. Our first prototype, the Mk-0, was a parallel hybrid Diesel and achieved an average of 230 MPG at a steady state of 55 MPH. This was pure Diesel/mechanical drive with no electric assist. Testing in that vehicle was quite a *treat*, the heat, the noise....good times. Unfortunately, though Diesel is attractive for its Carnot efficiency and the increased enthalpy of Diesel fuel vs gasoline, it's impossible to get a small Diesel engine certified for emissions California. They contain lots of unburned hydrocarbons, Nox compounds, etc. Reflecting this difficulty, the typ-h uses a small, water-cooled EFI Gasoline engine with closed loop oxygen feedback and catalytic converter. It's very clean and quiet. Again, because the engine company(s) and Aptera are in discussion it's premature to mention them until an MOU is signed. This engine is coupled to a lightweight 12KW starter/generator.
Performance: The fuel mileage of a low drag, range-extended electric vehicle is difficult to describe with one number. For example, the typ-1h can drive 40 to 60 miles on electric power alone. Perhaps for such a trip, the engine may only be duty-cycled for a few seconds or minutes. As one reader in the article pointed out, this would produce a fantastic number, an incredible number that, though factually true, would have no useful context, i.e. it's just a point on a graph. But, an asymptotic decaying exponential is an accurate way to describe the fuel mileage of the typ-1h. For example driving say, 50 miles, one might calculate a MPG number that's 2 or 3 times higher, say, 1000 MPG. As battery energy is depleted, the frequency of the engine duty cycle is increased. More fuel is used. at 75 miles, the MPG might be closer to 400 MPG. Again, we're using battery energy mostly, but turning the engine on more and more. Just over 100 miles we're just over 300 MPG, and just beyond 120 miles, we're around 300 MPG. So why pick a number at 120 miles? Well, it's more than double of most available plug-in hybrid ranges that achieve over 100 MPG. It's three times the distance of the typical American daily commute. It's a meaningful distance that represents the driving needs of 99% of Americans on a daily basis. Sure, it's asymptotic, after 350-400 miles it eventually plummets to around 130 MPG at highway speeds where it will stay all day until you plug it back in and charge it up.
I genuinely appreciate the opportunity to clear up these things. We look forward answering more of your questions at the soon to be released 'ask Aptera' at http://www.aptera.com
Sincerely, Steve
Posted at 7:17PM on Oct 5th 2007 by steve_fambro
AutoblogGreen Interview (http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/10/02/interview-with-steve-fambro-from-aptera-motors/)
:D
Original article link at the bottom.
67. Hello All,
Lot's of good points brought up here that I'd like to personally address, and use later for the 'ask Aptera' portion of our website.
First, thanks to all of the Aptera supporters here! It's great for our team to see the positive comments. For the folks with questions, or even unfavorable comments, I'm listening, and I'd like to address your concerns.
The Website: Let me just say that more information is coming; data, pictures, specs, crash test info, please be patient..it's on its way. We've also changed the yet-to-be released website to be more navigable, while giving folks the option for the creative experience.
Aptera, the company: We're a small company, 15 full time employees. We've been very private with our contact information as, well, we just don't have the resources to receive unannounced visitors, or field numerous phone calls. We will, we just don't right now. We operate from a 15,000 ft^2 research center in Carlsbad, it's about 4 miles from the ocean. One of our first investors was/is Idealab of Pasadena, CA. http://www.idealab.com ...so we're here to stay.
Pre-orders: The best way for us to gage interest in the Aptera, and the ratio of all electric vs a range-extended electric was to allow customers to reserve their production slot and choose the configuration that best suited them. We're not raising money with pre-orders as some of our contemporaries have done, we're using the $500 deposit as a legitimate means of reserving your Aptera, but also as a vetting process to prevent an over-enthusiastic supporter from clicking the 'electric' or 'hybrid' button 1000 times and skewing the data. Having genuine pre-orders helps us better plan and gives us clearer focus with investors. The deposits are fully refundable at ANY time. They're held in escrow by 'authorize.net' ...we can't even touch them.
Vehicle: Well, the Aptera was designed from the ground up as an electric vehicle (and later as an extended range electric vehicle). After building the proof of concept Mk-0, (the vehicle that's shown in the youtube videos) we hired an automotive design firm to help us take the concept vehicle to manufacturing. That firm was 'eleven', http://www.designby11.com with Jason Hill and Nathan Armstrong. They were responsible for the design and styling, interior design and body engineering while we did the computational fluid dynamics on the body, designed the custom electronics, the suspension and drivetrain elements and composites. All of this stuff was developed in-house exclusively by Aptera for the Aptera typ-1. Structural elements, or anything that carries a load has gone through countless revisions of FEA to be both lightweight, as robust as needed, and manufacturable. The structure is mostly composite and is manufactured in such a way that has performance characteristics as good as autoclaved parts.
Windows: For expediency and several other reasons, we elected NOT to include roll-down windows on the first two typ-1/Mk-1 prototypes. There are two window roll-down strategies in competition here at Aptera, and the winning strategy will be implemented on subsequent prototypes. Again, the main reason was time and cost in the concept build. As an aside, all of the glass on the Aptera typ-1 prototype is laminated automotive safety glass, even the glass covering the solar cells on the roof! It was easier (though heavier) for the prototypes to have all laminated glass rather than some tempered and some laminated. Thankfully, the prototypes have air conditioning and a micro-climate flow control system that runs autonomously when the vehicle is parked or underway. In warm weather it keeps the cockpit close to ambient and uses a fraction of the power generated by the solar cells. It also drastically reduces the load of the air conditioner, thus we're able to use a smaller system.
Safety in design: Based on our wheel layout and our weight, the Aptera typ-1 is registered as a motorcyle. In fact, Aptera is a motorcycle manufacturer registered with DOT and CA DMV, which means, amongst other things, we issue VIN's. Our 'world identifier number' is '5WT', so all of our VIN's begin with '5WT', and we've issued two so far. Now, being a motorcycle manufacturer Aptera has a lot of flexibility in its approach to safety, and it's because so that we've made the decision a long time ago to make safety a core part of the design. As a small example, the typ-1 roof is designed to EXCEED rollover strength requirements spelled out in FMVSS 216 for passenger vehicles. The doors EXCEED the strength requirement spelled out in FMVSS 214, so on and so forth. We decided not just to meet many of the specs for passenger vehicles which are set above and beyond that of motorcycles, but we chose to exceed them whenever possible. Airbag-in seatbelt technology, a front subframe and firewall that redirect energy around the occupants are all just a few of the many parts of the safety systems on the typ-1, in addition to exceeding as much of the FMVSS as possible.
Crash testing: Aptera has been quietly working with CD-Adapco and ABAQUS for approximately the past six months conducting frontal offset crash test simulation. Using these incredibly powerful tools, this process will allow us to continue refine and test in software performing numerous 'crashes' on computer before we corroborate the data with a real test. It's a much faster, and less expensive process than using only 'physical models'. The typ-1 is performing beautifully in the process, and when it's appropriate we'll upload the associated video and pictures to the website. We begin our side-impact phase sometime in the next two months and have a high degree of confidence that we'll have similar results.
Powertrain/Energy: The typ-1 uses a commoditized, 'ruggedized' off-the-shelf 3-phase motor controller designed for vehicular applications, and a 3-phase motor made for us by a company here in southern California. The rear drive suspension, the drive reduction are all designed and made by Aptera. We're reasonably close in announcing which battery company we're partnering with, but for a variety of reasons it's not appropriate for us to discuss it at this time. Having said that, let me say this: The typ-1e (electric) anf the typ-1h (series plug in hybrid) have different battery needs and this *may* result in different battery chemistries and different manufacturers for the two models. The typ-1e is designed to use a 10 KWh pack, while the typ-1h uses a smaller pack. The cycles and DOD are different for both applications. We look forward to articulating the battery lifespan and warranty policy to the public well before we begin manufacturing the typ-1 next October. There was also some confusion concerning Diesel or Gasoline. Our first prototype, the Mk-0, was a parallel hybrid Diesel and achieved an average of 230 MPG at a steady state of 55 MPH. This was pure Diesel/mechanical drive with no electric assist. Testing in that vehicle was quite a *treat*, the heat, the noise....good times. Unfortunately, though Diesel is attractive for its Carnot efficiency and the increased enthalpy of Diesel fuel vs gasoline, it's impossible to get a small Diesel engine certified for emissions California. They contain lots of unburned hydrocarbons, Nox compounds, etc. Reflecting this difficulty, the typ-h uses a small, water-cooled EFI Gasoline engine with closed loop oxygen feedback and catalytic converter. It's very clean and quiet. Again, because the engine company(s) and Aptera are in discussion it's premature to mention them until an MOU is signed. This engine is coupled to a lightweight 12KW starter/generator.
Performance: The fuel mileage of a low drag, range-extended electric vehicle is difficult to describe with one number. For example, the typ-1h can drive 40 to 60 miles on electric power alone. Perhaps for such a trip, the engine may only be duty-cycled for a few seconds or minutes. As one reader in the article pointed out, this would produce a fantastic number, an incredible number that, though factually true, would have no useful context, i.e. it's just a point on a graph. But, an asymptotic decaying exponential is an accurate way to describe the fuel mileage of the typ-1h. For example driving say, 50 miles, one might calculate a MPG number that's 2 or 3 times higher, say, 1000 MPG. As battery energy is depleted, the frequency of the engine duty cycle is increased. More fuel is used. at 75 miles, the MPG might be closer to 400 MPG. Again, we're using battery energy mostly, but turning the engine on more and more. Just over 100 miles we're just over 300 MPG, and just beyond 120 miles, we're around 300 MPG. So why pick a number at 120 miles? Well, it's more than double of most available plug-in hybrid ranges that achieve over 100 MPG. It's three times the distance of the typical American daily commute. It's a meaningful distance that represents the driving needs of 99% of Americans on a daily basis. Sure, it's asymptotic, after 350-400 miles it eventually plummets to around 130 MPG at highway speeds where it will stay all day until you plug it back in and charge it up.
I genuinely appreciate the opportunity to clear up these things. We look forward answering more of your questions at the soon to be released 'ask Aptera' at http://www.aptera.com
Sincerely, Steve
Posted at 7:17PM on Oct 5th 2007 by steve_fambro
AutoblogGreen Interview (http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/10/02/interview-with-steve-fambro-from-aptera-motors/)
:D