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View Full Version : 4/20/09 - Bird-like electric car to make Palo Alto debut... - paloaltoonline.com


Matthijs
04-23-2009, 06:48 AM
http://www.paloaltoonline.com/news/show_story.php?id=12043

Purring softly through downtown San Francisco, the sleek Aptera 2e looks like a white dolphin, a wingless bird, or the latest Pixar brainchild.

Its two front wheels protrude from the nose like hawk claws, while the lone rear wheel spins beneath the 2e's narrow, horizontal tail as it winds its way through alleyways, past pointing fingers and quizzical faces.

The Aptera, an all-electric two-seater capable of driving 100 miles between recharges, is turning heads as much for its avian appearance as for its energy efficiency. While Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger and actor Leonardo DiCaprio famously purchased the better-known (and higher priced) Tesla electric car, the Aptera is quickly but quietly amassing its own list of celebrity backers. Actors Robin Williams and Tom Hanks have already expressed interest in getting an Aptera, according to the company, as has the iconic NBA-er, Shaquille O'Neal of the Phoenix Suns. (Aptera officials believe the colossal Shaq may be interested in buying one for a friend or a family member, however.)

Though the Aptera 2e won't be released until this fall, locals will have a chance for a sneak preview Wednesday, when Aptera officials bring the latest prototype to Stanford Shopping Center. But quite a few Bay Area residents have already gotten wind of the new vehicle. The company has received about 4,000 pre-orders from all parts California, said Marques McCammon, the company's chief marketing officer. The areas with the most pre-orders thus far have been San Diego County, where Aptera is based, Los Angeles, and the San Francisco-Silicon Valley area.

The car will only be available in California at first, said Paul Wilbur, the company's president and chief executive officer.

"California gets it," said Wilbur, who worked for Ford and Chrysler in Detroit before heading to Aptera's Vista, Calif., headquarters.

The 2e's bird-like appearance is not a coincidence, Wilbur said. The company tried to make the car "shaped like the wind" by blowing high-speed winds at the prototypes and tinkering with the models to make them more aerodynamic.

Company Founder Steve Fambro is a trained pilot who worked in San Diego's thriving biotech industry before he set his sights on designing an ultra-efficient car with "wingless flight" capabilities, Wilbur said.

"Its aerodynamic form is what makes the car so efficient," said Wilbur, who equated the car's energy-efficiency to getting about 200 miles per gallon.

The result is a car that weighs 1,700 pounds (about half that of the Chevrolet Volt), can accelerate from 0 to 60 mph in under 10 seconds and can reach 90 mph. And while the pre-order list includes several big names, the company is aiming its creation at the average driver. The Chevy Volt (set for release in 2010) aims for a $40,000 price tag and the Tesla goes for about $50,000 and up, but Wilbur said the Aptera 2e will cost between $25,000 and $40,000.

Wilbur said the company plans to release its hybrid (2h) and gasoline-fueled (2g) models in the middle of 2010. The 2g -- the least fuel efficient of the three -- would get about 100 miles per gallon, Wilbur said.

The Aptera 2e, meanwhile, is scheduled to debut in white later this fall. Other colors, including black, silver and red, would become available next year as production accelerates, McCammon said.

Drivers would be able to recharge the 2e by simply plugging it into a regular electric outlet with an extension cord. A display on the dashboard shows how much battery power is being used and how much power the car has left.

The Aptera 2e will be displayed at Stanford Shopping Center in Palo Alto from 5 to 8 p.m. Wednesday

A1phaGeek
04-30-2009, 12:33 PM
Green or silver would be nice

Zafur
04-30-2009, 01:10 PM
What, no pink? ;)

c0mp13x
04-30-2009, 04:18 PM
I really didn't think they would ever offer the Aptera in black because of the cabin temperature problem. But, I guess public demand (like the folks on this forum!) changes things and Aptera listens!

If Marques is saying it, I guess it will happen. Black sounds intriguing (and certainly more stealth than white), but better order that photovoltaic roof option to keep the cabin reasonable (or just run the climate control fans off the batteries as Karen suggested)...

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3538/3291621840_52507d6e5e_o.jpg

:thumbsup:

IanO
04-30-2009, 04:52 PM
"black Aptera"

All it needs is a scalloped trailing edge and yellow pinstripes and you can call it the Bat Pod. :)

catmando
05-02-2009, 01:07 AM
Red I like...black no way, not in Texas. And I'm wondering how many options they offer that could possibly raise the price $14,000. :scared0008:

John O
05-02-2009, 01:18 AM
Red I like...black no way, not in Texas. And I'm wondering how many options they offer that could possibly raise the price $14,000. :scared0008:

My bet is that the bulk of the big price range will be optional larger batteries. Stripped of options with the small battery at $25k, and fully loaded with options (maybe $1-2k) + a much bigger battery takes it to $40k.

catmando
05-02-2009, 01:37 AM
Well the hybrid is the way to go IMO, wonder what it will cost... Too bad Steve couldn't find a small diesel motor that would pass emissions tests. :(

I think Aptera should do everything in its power to keep the price and costs down with this economy we have now. I think it will take 2-3 years to recover. People just don't have money to spend on big-ticket items.

John Mammoth
05-04-2009, 02:19 PM
Its already been stated elsewhere I believe that the 25K model will be the gas-only version, Typ 2G. The solar roof, navigation, rear view camera, stereo and trim upgrades are the easy options. Its know that Aptera is actively looking/using/partnering with many different battery suppliers. As that is the biggest question mark in terms of $$ I bet that Aptera themselves can't say for sure what the final cost of the Typ 2e will be due to the still variable cost of the battery. Suppliers and price could change before November which could raise/lower the final price of the vehicle. Also lets not forget ongoing efforts to get as much of a tax credit as possible from the feds and the state of California. So you can expect, I would think, the Typ 2e to be no less than 30K. If the h uses the same battery pack then the extra software and ICE engine can easily push it to 35K or higher.

I'm actually a bit nervous about this. The addition of an ICE generator adds much more complexity to the vehicle. An electric drive train is itself very straight forward. The software and mechanical know how to get an ICE generator to kick in seemlessly is new territory. Chevy is having problems getting it just right and they've been tinkering around with it for over a year. In the latest round of test drives the media took in the Cruze-Volts none of the drivers were allowed to experience the ICE kicking in, GM just had them drive around in AER mode only. Makes you wonder. If GM can't get it right after 100 engineers have had a year with it, will our little wonderful upstart in So Cal be able to figure it out? I say yes, but will it take 6 months or 18?

kerbe
05-04-2009, 04:49 PM
Railroad locomotives have been using fuel-powered generators to drive electric motors for decades -- why should it be so difficult to do on a small scale? We're not talking about the generator directly powering the electric motor, though -- it's supposed to charge the batteries while they're being discharged. Are they doing it at a pair of "battery lobes" -- where one discharges while the other charges? Sounds like a software issue... But then, I'm not an engineer -- I believe that bees can fly!

n_dawg
05-08-2009, 12:44 PM
Of course, two banks of batteries will make it twice as heavy :\

On a simple level it's a matter of making a system that can 'charge' and 'discharge' the battery pack at the same time, without a big hit in longevity. Most of the current will just flow *through* the pack into the motor controller. I wonder if they're planning on putting a 'bypass' in to avoid that resistive loss…

Also, we figured that one out ;) (http://www.livescience.com/animals/060110_bee_fight.html).

kerbe
05-09-2009, 12:36 AM
Of course, two banks of batteries will make it twice as heavy :\

On a simple level it's a matter of making a system that can 'charge' and 'discharge' the battery pack at the same time, without a big hit in longevity. Most of the current will just flow *through* the pack into the motor controller. I wonder if they're planning on putting a 'bypass' in to avoid that resistive loss…



Actually, I was thinking one pack split into two "lobes," not two packs.

I wonder if the fuel-powered generator will be able to run in "charge only" mode -- say if one was spending the night somewhere that plug-in charging wasn't available. Could the generator run unattended until the batteries were charged? Or could it "top up" the batteries for an hour or so while you were stopped for dinner?

I know that Sterling-cycle generators are often used on yachts -- would such a multi-fuel-capable device be appropriate for use in an Aptera?

n_dawg
05-09-2009, 10:52 AM
I wonder if the fuel-powered generator will be able to run in "charge only" mode.

I don't see why you'd want that.

I know that Sterling-cycle generators are often used on yachts -- would such a multi-fuel-capable device be appropriate for use in an Aptera?

Probably not. Those generators are notoriously inefficient and bulky, neither of which is really appropriate for the Aptera.

kerbe
05-09-2009, 11:06 AM
I don't see why you'd want that.



Probably not. Those generators are notoriously inefficient and bulky, neither of which is really appropriate for the Aptera.

I think I explained why I'd want that... But on a personal level, my commute is nearly 60 miles each way, putting it beyond the range of a 2e. My designated parking area at the state capitol does not include access to an electrical outlet so the only option I'd have to recharge the vehicle during the day would be a 2h that could sit quietly running its generator so that I could drive home under electic power. I would think that running under one constant load -- charging -- would be a more efficient use of the generator than would running it under two loads (powering the vehicle under varying conditions AND recharging) while I drove home.

And about the inefficiency and bulk of sterling-cycle generators, the units I've seen have been rather compact and near-silent in operation. Plus ANY heat source can be utilized to help power the engine -- including waste heat from an electric motor, from braking, or even from an Li battery pack.

I'm just wondering if there are other viable options besides an internal combustion generator.

wpatters
05-09-2009, 11:47 AM
A 2 part battery system has interesting possibilities. A removable battery pack could be replaced with a small engine/generator/fuel source. This would allow the E and H models to be interchangeable.

Mazda is doing great things with the rotary engine. A small rotary might be used in this instance, just to save space.

I envision a latch on the Aptera and a special jack that would allow quick change from a commuter E to a cross country H.

Bill "still waiting for the G" Patterson

n_dawg
05-09-2009, 12:29 PM
Well, generally ICEs are most efficient at around 60% load, and I'm going to assume that Aptera will run there pretty much all the time.

Note that the most efficient Series hybrid approach is a so-called "charge sustaining" mode where it doesn't charge the battery at all, just maintains it at the current charge level. Charging will almost certainly be lower power than driving (you can charge in ~3 hours, but you wouldn't have a problem discharging in 1.5), so I assume that if you *only* charged you'd be running at a lower power, say 30%. In that case, (the case where Aptera does everything right) sitting there charging would actually be less efficient, not more.

You have another option – simply let the 2h do what it's designed to do and recharge while you're driving. That way you don't 'overcharge' at work and pay for expensive at-work-generator electricity instead of cheap at-home-wall-outlet electricity.

So really, if you're getting the Aptera 2h I wouldn't worry about range.

And about the inefficiency and bulk of sterling-cycle generators, the units I've seen have been rather compact and near-silent in operation. Plus ANY heat source can be utilized to help power the engine -- including waste heat from an electric motor, from braking, or even from an Li battery pack.

Silent != efficient. There are more ways to waste energy than sound.

Dean Kamen (the Segway guy) is working on a BEV (the DEKA Revolt) with a sterling range extender. However, it's mainly there to power the accessories, defrost, and heater. It's something like 10% efficient at making
electricity, compared to around 30% for a well-tuned generator.