What does Aptera gain from this abrupt silence?

[Kekoa#433]

This change in any kind of public announcements does actually make me worry. At the beginning of this year it looked like they made a really big push toward making sure to keep people in the loop or at least letting people know that things were still moving along.

Then all of a sudden they completely fall off the radar. Now I know they are still working on the Aptera but it seems very weird.

They made a huge PR push for the first half the year and now that they are getting the attention of people beyond the internets they decide that now is the time to have no PR.

What does Aptera gain from this abrupt silence after really making the effort to get everyone excited?:confused:

[c0mp13x]

What does Aptera gain from this abrupt silence after really making the effort to get everyone excited? :confused:
A focused work ethic on what is really important for the success of this vehicle... meeting (or at least coming close to) their self-imposed fall deadline to produce a vehicle that they have promised the world.

The exposure and excitement phase is about over, it's time to really get busy working out all the small details that will make this vehicle match or exceed the fit and finish level of a real production car.

Aptera has promised a lot... final chemistry batteries under the seats, more space in the rear, narrower front track, roll-down windows with a new side door profile, top-hinged rear hatch, improved front wheel pants and a whole new rear wheel housing... not to mention the tons of programming and coordination of all the electronics: the many touch-screen functions, GPS and stereo. All this, plus the upcoming Automotive X-Prize have the Aptera team scrambling to meet deadlines.

The timing is perfect and the world awaits. The collapse of GM and Chrysler have put alternatives like Aptera center stage. The 2e will not be the answer to everyone's needs, but if successful, it will give Aptera a unprecedented opportunity - a once in a century opportunity - to build a company at the forefront of a whole new automotive generation.

The EV field is littered with start-up companies that are mostly talk about pretty computer renderings. Aptera has actually produced multiple working prototypes... and is very busy figuring out its final version. Does that help explain the silence?

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3170/3326645389_d73d4e2fce.jpg

:thumbsup:

[aptera1213]

i don't 100% agree...

i admit they are focusing on getting the lastest model up and running. and getting the facilities up to stuff and all that...

but the PR department ain't doing none of that...the PR people don't design the car, don't work on building the car nor do they work on the general facilities...


they do PR...and they are slacking...

but i hope to get some news soon on the lastest build...

and maybe the myaptera site soon too

g

[Kekoa#433]

focused work ethic on what is really important for the success of this vehicle... meeting (or at least coming close to) their self-imposed fall deadline to produce a vehicle that they have promised the world.

You mean the second fall deadline.

The exposure and excitement phase is about over, it's time to really get busy working out all the small details that will make this vehicle match or exceed the fit and finish level of a real production car.

Aptera has promised a lot... final chemistry batteries under the seats, more space in the rear, narrower front track, roll-down windows with a new side door profile, top-hinged rear hatch, improved front wheel pants and a whole new rear wheel housing... not to mention the tons of programming and coordination of all the electronics: the many touch-screen functions, GPS and stereo. All this, plus the upcoming Automotive X-Prize have the Aptera team scrambling to meet deadlines.

Well I can understand that they probably have enough excitement and exposure for new possible investors and they need to work on the production car. Also I know that they have very many things to do before the new deadline. But even with all these deadlines to met all you need is one person to gather any new information and feed it to us investors. I'm sure any number of people on this forum would be very happy to put together a newsletter for Aptera if they could just get some information.

The timing is perfect and the world awaits. The collapse of GM and Chrysler have put alternatives like Aptera right in the forefront of what everyone is waiting for. The 2e will not be the answer to everyone's needs, but if successful, it will give Aptera a unprecedented opportunity - a once in a century opportunity - to build a company at the forefront of a whole new automotive generation.

The EV field is littered with start-up companies that are mostly talk about pretty computer renderings. Aptera has actually produced multiple working prototypes... and is very busy figuring out its final version. Does that help explain the silence?

I very much do believe that Aptera is in a good position to change the game (what with GM and Chrysler having issues) but does it really take that long to just put together an update of some kind. It doesn't have to be some huge statement to the world, but something for us who have waited patiently and want nothing more then for Aptera to succeed.

I thought the newsletters were great but those have dried up for some reason. Since they have got to be working on quite a few things with the deadline coming up they should be full of updates of some kind.

Sorry if I'm coming across as all kinds of negative but I sat by and watched them quietly pass through the first deadline and while I doubt they would do it again there is still a part of me that remembers being excited and then sad (and a little angry) that nothing happened.

[c0mp13x]

i don't 100% agree...

i admit they are focusing on getting the lastest model up and running. and getting the facilities up to stuff and all that...

but the PR department ain't doing none of that...the PR people don't design the car, don't work on building the car nor do they work on the general facilities...

they do PR...and they are slacking...

but i hope to get some news soon on the lastest build...

and maybe the myaptera site soon too

g
I hear what you're saying... but I'll have to defend the team (and pray for their success!).

When talking about a small engineering team of 50-100... if you think Marcus (the CMO) is just sitting around trying to figure out what to Twitter you guys or what cool gadget to add to the MyAptera site... you're fooling yourself.

He's got a master's in Mechanical Engineering and I'm sure very much involved with getting this vehicle to market. I have communicated with him.

Again, I'll say "talk is cheap" (Spark, Vector, et al...); "show me the money" (make me a real vehicle Aptera, I'll forgive you for the websites). Ha!

:thumbsup:

[aptera1213]

cool

i'm not staying up nights worrying about the next newsletter...but i like getting them...

i'm more worried that in the current economy i am not going to have the cash to buy one come november or december...and that would make me sad...

g

[Aptera#1434]

I thought the newsletters were going to be a monthly thing?

[greenguy]

The project of getting the Aptera out for Fall rollout is a huge hurdle.

I am prepared to be patient at just wait for a Newsletter when they have some new information to report.

But all should not be to disappointed if there is another delay on the rollout even if it rolls into some time in 2010. Again remember there are many details to be resolved that may take a bit more time to iron out.:aptera: :love0002: :jumping0007:

[c0mp13x]

I thought the newsletters were going to be a monthly thing?
Com'on now... we all know the newsletters have always been on a strict, structured, "whenever we feel like it" basis! http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Laughing/lol-053.gif

[KarenRei]

Com'on now... we all know the newsletters have always been on a strict, structured, "whenever we feel like it" basis! http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Laughing/lol-053.gif

I suspect that we'll get a new newsletter as soon as they hit another big milestone -- rolldown windows, for example. I imagine, in accordance with the prophecy, that they'll also want to update us on how the prep for production is going.

[kerbe]

A focused work ethic on what is really important for the success of this vehicle... meeting (or at least coming close to) their self-imposed fall deadline to produce a vehicle that they have promised the world.

The exposure and excitement phase is about over, it's time to really get busy working out all the small details that will make this vehicle match or exceed the fit and finish level of a real production car.

Aptera has promised a lot... final chemistry batteries under the seats, more space in the rear, narrower front track, roll-down windows with a new side door profile, top-hinged rear hatch, improved front wheel pants and a whole new rear wheel housing... not to mention the tons of programming and coordination of all the electronics: the many touch-screen functions, GPS and stereo. All this, plus the upcoming Automotive X-Prize have the Aptera team scrambling to meet deadlines.

The timing is perfect and the world awaits. The collapse of GM and Chrysler have put alternatives like Aptera center stage. The 2e will not be the answer to everyone's needs, but if successful, it will give Aptera a unprecedented opportunity - a once in a century opportunity - to build a company at the forefront of a whole new automotive generation.

The EV field is littered with start-up companies that are mostly talk about pretty computer renderings. Aptera has actually produced multiple working prototypes... and is very busy figuring out its final version. Does that help explain the silence?

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3170/3326645389_d73d4e2fce.jpg

:thumbsup:

I thought your sentiments were very well expressed. Somewhere an English teacher is smiling...

[c0mp13x]

Kool!http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll248/Scrappage61/Smileys/1959_dancing_bannana.gif

[Pegasus]

i'm more worried that in the current economy i am not going to have the cash to buy one come november or december...and that would make me sad...

Well if you have the cash now, open up a 6-month CD and stash it away so you're not tempted to spend it, and you can earn some interest in the meantime. :)

[kerbe]

Kool!http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll248/Scrappage61/Smileys/1959_dancing_bannana.gif

...and, somewhere else, a banana is dancing...

[aptera1213]

Well if you have the cash now, open up a 6-month CD and stash it away so you're not tempted to spend it, and you can earn some interest in the meantime.


actually i was hoping to save up money between now and dec...but that is hard right now (2 kids in college, one getting married...etc etc)...

and the aptera is more a luxury than a "needed" item.

i live 6 miles from work. i haven't owned a car in over 4 years. i either ride my scooter or my bicycle to work.

mostly i wanted an aptera because they're hella cool and i want to support new start ups that help improve our world...

i still plan and hope to buy the aptera, but it may or may not be part of my near future...

[John Mammoth]

I too am worried about this lack of communication. Any news, even a quick email blast saying 'we hear you, we are working hard, the Aptera will be ready this fall' would assure many people. I think it is odd they went on the campaign trail to sell the vehicle only to go dark the last month or so. They absolutely have the time to put together an update and get it out to us. Its not like they have to spend hours at Kinkos. The lack of a newsletter only means that they don't want to put a newsletter. Why they don't is the question that we need answered. I hereby offer to put out any new information that Aptera will send me in a visual pleasing electronically delivered newsletter. I'll even do it for free.

Really though I still have faith that the lights are on in Vista and team Aptera is working quite diligently to deliver the future to us.

[OC-LA driver]

Seems to me they've expanded beyond the internet, blog, and EV buzz to mass media. I don't miss the newsletters when I see Atera instead beating the bushes to create exposure, whether to potential customers, to legislators, or to financiers. Sure we want Aptera to maintain our interest...but I think it's better for Aptera and ultimately better for me that they focus on broadening their product's appeal.

The 3-wheeled design makes them not a "real car" but a vehicle so unlike any other, I want people to get used to the idea. We've had a few years to wrap our heads around the unusual (bizarre?) design. The sooner the broader population...and lawmakers...see it as a real, intelligent, and viable vehicle, the better.

[KarenRei]

so unlike any other, I want people to get used to the idea.

There's a tiny little tadpole trike convertible driving around the streets of Iowa City. It's already started. :)

[G.M.]

While this is not a car on the road, it is my daily communter:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3403/3522756156_8a2abf0f0e_o.jpg

So I'm doing my part to get 3 wheeled transportation to be acceptable to the masses ;) .


G.M.

[speednut]

I'm with Karen on this, they are probably working nose to the grindstone and waiting for the next milestone to announce. If I was running the show, I wouldn't want to announce anything at this point until I'm sure its implementation is ready for production. No point in sending out a warm fuzzy newsletter with fluff (we're green, yada-yada-yada) and no production vehicle content. We're already the converted and we'll get updates when they are satisfied that it is ready for public consumption. :happy0025:

[IanO]

I'm hoping Aptera has all hands on deck getting their ducks in a row for a product rollout. (There are a zillion little details to manage.)

Anyone leftover at Aptera is probably flying around the country picking up Chrysler and GM production assets and personnel for pennies-on-the-dollar. This is a *great* time to be an automotive startup!

[jhm614]

I'm hoping Aptera has all hands on deck getting their ducks in a row for a product rollout. (There are a zillion little details to manage.)
!

Exactly. Plus I'll bet they are banging through lots of design iterations leading up to the "final" design they will use for the fall launch. No use reporting on those if the details are in flux.

[cburk]

Looks like they are shooting some new PR pics with hot chicks:) Maybe that's why there isn't any news. All the engineers are busy watching models jump up and down on top of the Aptera, lol. See the videos thread!

[SEGsby]

In my mind, Aptera gains respectability by not putting anything out there that isn't ready yet. I can live with "soft body dynamics" on car shells for a bit...

Hopefully pp7/pp8 will be out soon enough, to critique.

[danieloneil01]

The project of getting the Aptera out for Fall rollout is a huge hurdle.

I am prepared to be patient at just wait for a Newsletter when they have some new information to report.

But all should not be to disappointed if there is another delay on the rollout even if it rolls into some time in 2010. Again remember there are many details to be resolved that may take a bit more time to iron out.:aptera: :love0002: :jumping0007:



2010???????? LOL, if they can't produce by their own timeline then they failed. And it could cost them dearly. Would you feel comfortable giving 40k to a company that can't produce when they say they will? The first time you take it in for service you'll be questioning it. I love the design of the vehicle (don't really care about what powers it) but I'm not sold or a fanboy of the company.

If they can't deliver then they need someone in charge that can run a company before their window closes. Because if a conventional electric vehicle comes out before them for the same price I guarantee Aptera will feel a huge hit in sales.

[Ricky Ray]

I hear crickets...but see little elfs in my minds eye working all year just to deliver on One Special Day a year :sign0020: ;o)

[Aptera#1434]

Silence is golden (to the general public), but for those of us on this forum with deposits, this amount of silence is ridiculous. A simple monthly newsletter by email isn't much to ask for. I believe the last newsletter was in March, '09.

[paddler13]

Jeez people. Either they deliver or they don't. Trying to pin them down to a specific date, just so you know you can, is ridiculous. Predicting some date in the future when a vehicle has to be delivered "or else" is beyond unrealistic. Which would you rather have, a not quite ready for prime time vehicle delivered on a date certain just to satisfy a calendar fetish or a vehicle delivered at the end of a long and thoughtful process that recognizes the reality of designing and manufacturing a truly unique vehicle even if that delivery date is later than they estimated?

Look, either they will produce a solid product or they won't but pushing for a specific date, rather than a specific level of quality and manufacturing stability, or demanding constant updates on things that are probably still in flux is a good way to hound them out of existence.

You're all on the cutting edge here and demanding it operate like a mature technology that can pump out product on demand is a bit much.

I'd love to have them stay silent, stay focused, and come out with a vehicle everyone can be proud to own.

Sometimes I think people want updates just so they can hash over every minute detail, draw lines in the sand about this or that possible feature or operational detail and then demand that their pet approach or design feature never change or damn it I'm canceling my order right now!

You want roll down windows you don't want roll down windows you want mirrors you want cameras you can't conceivably buy one without feature X you want to be able to coast to the farmer's market you want regen you can't possibly see buying one that has it because coasting is far superior and anyone who doesn't think so is an idiot and how dare they make it so damn wide but they better not narrow it or it will look silly and boy how come I can't get it in any color I want...etc. etc.

I'll say this much. It's entertaining as hell. [/rant]

[evmavin]

Jeez people. Either they deliver or they don't. Trying to pin them down to a specific date, just so you know you can, is ridiculous. Predicting some date in the future when a vehicle has to be delivered "or else" is beyond unrealistic. Which would you rather have, a not quite ready for prime time vehicle delivered on a date certain just to satisfy a calendar fetish or a vehicle delivered at the end of a long and thoughtful process that recognizes the reality of designing and manufacturing a truly unique vehicle even if that delivery date is later than they estimated?

Look, either they will produce a solid product or they won't but pushing for a specific date, rather than a specific level of quality and manufacturing stability, or demanding constant updates on things that are probably still in flux is a good way to hound them out of existence.

You're all on the cutting edge here and demanding it operate like a mature technology that can pump out product on demand is a bit much.

I'd love to have them stay silent, stay focused, and come out with a vehicle everyone can be proud to own.

Sometimes I think people want updates just so they can hash over every minute detail, draw lines in the sand about this or that possible feature or operational detail and then demand that their pet approach or design feature never change or damn it I'm canceling my order right now!

You want roll down windows you don't want roll down windows you want mirrors you want cameras you can't conceivably buy one without feature X you want to be able to coast to the farmer's market you want regen you can't possibly see buying one that has it because coasting is far superior and anyone who doesn't think so is an idiot and how dare they make it so damn wide but they better not narrow it or it will look silly and boy how come I can't get it in any color I want...etc. etc.

I'll say this much. It's entertaining as hell. [/rant]


Interesting perspective, did you consider the more basic concept of integrity and customer service, meaning when you say you are going to do something do it and if not state that you will no longer, either way is fine but don't just ignore your customers. I could care less if they update each detail monthly but ignoring basic communication promises is a bit silly and a poor business exercise in business communication and retention. Do that in a sales career and you might as well call it quits. It's all about perception, besides 20 minutes of writing a silly generic update will yield many benefits and not every customer is in the "I will buy no matter what" category. Who is pinning dates? Features? ETC?

[G.M.]

The original question:


What does Aptera gain from this abrupt silence?

Truthfully, nothing.

Do they gain anything? No. Is it the end of the world? No.

But it does seem to be potentially more harm than good. Though, again truthfully, it will likely not have much affect either way, good or bad.


The comment:

I'd love to have them stay silent, stay focused, and come out with a vehicle everyone can be proud to own.

is a bit of a strawman. Of course we all want them to "stay focused and come out with a vehicle everyone can be proud to own". But to think that putting out a once a month newsletter will suddenly make that impossible is not true. Staying silent is something you want from your little brother when you are driving cross country, not something you want for a car company.

Better would be: I'd love them to stay focused and come out with a vehicle everyone can be proud to own while still releasing a monthly newsletter.

G.M.

[paddler13]

emavin, yes actually, I did consider that. For an existing company with an existing product stream you'd be correct but Aptera is not such a company. I'm no fan of silence, preferring to be told "nothing new" rather than simply told nothing, but I give them a lot of slack considering what they are trying to do and their small workforce and priority on development of a final product and the production process itself.

They may indeed fail and go belly up with no warning and they may succeed beyond anyone's wildest dream. But everyone in here who reserved did so understanding that they were signing on to something so completely new that every aspect of both company and product is being designed from the ground up. That $500 gets you a place in line at the door but you're waiting just like the rest of us to see what happens and pounding on the door demanding attention strikes me as incredibly selfish. Having Aptera put all their energy into producing the vehicle you are waiting for and having room to adapt to changing circumstances in doing so is far preferable to having them coddle a bunch of demanding people.

Anyone who cancels a reservation over this will be mighty unhappy if after a long silence Aptera finally comes out with a great product. Let's give them the freedom to experiment on things that might not work out because in reality all we care about is the final product, not that they get they by doing it exactly the way we want them to.

[KarenRei]

Amen to that.

[G.M.]

I'm not pounding on the door. Nor demanding attention.

But if asking for a monthly newsletter causes the car to fail, or the company to go belly up, well that company would have failed anyways.

G.M.

And I can be patient, I really have no choice. But it just seems silly not to send a newsletter or even just an email.

"Working hard. Car looks great. We know you will love it. Thanks for believing in us and sticking with us, we know you will be crazy about the new changes and improvements we are working into our latest version. I bet you would love to see it...And you will be able to soon. Keep an eye out for newletters and more emails and, heck, follow us on twitter. :) Aptera."

[D Jetson]

"Working hard. Car looks great. We know you will love it. Thanks for believing in us and sticking with us, we know you will be crazy about the new changes and improvements we are working into our latest version. I bet you would love to see it...And you will be able to soon. Keep an eye out for newletters and more emails and, heck, follow us on twitter. :) Aptera."[/QUOTE]


Hey G.M. thanks for passing along the update. I knew we'd get one sooner or later :jumping0001:

[evmavin]

emavin, yes actually, I did consider that. For an existing company with an existing product stream you'd be correct but Aptera is not such a company. I'm no fan of silence, preferring to be told "nothing new" rather than simply told nothing, but I give them a lot of slack considering what they are trying to do and their small workforce and priority on development of a final product and the production process itself.

They may indeed fail and go belly up with no warning and they may succeed beyond anyone's wildest dream. But everyone in here who reserved did so understanding that they were signing on to something so completely new that every aspect of both company and product is being designed from the ground up. That $500 gets you a place in line at the door but you're waiting just like the rest of us to see what happens and pounding on the door demanding attention strikes me as incredibly selfish. Having Aptera put all their energy into producing the vehicle you are waiting for and having room to adapt to changing circumstances in doing so is far preferable to having them coddle a bunch of demanding people.

Anyone who cancels a reservation over this will be mighty unhappy if after a long silence Aptera finally comes out with a great product. Let's give them the freedom to experiment on things that might not work out because in reality all we care about is the final product, not that they get they by doing it exactly the way we want them to.



I don't think anyone is demanding anything, who is looking to be coddled? can you name some? The newer a company the more they "should" do to look professional and instill confidence, I'm speaking of sound business practices. This is all about perception and good marketing, it's so easy, so simple and so effective and the best tool to boost public perception and retention. Any professional person in marketing knows that this is the best and most cost effective way to boost sales and retain potential customers. Of course this is pointless for those who will buy one under any circumstances yet that is not going to make Aptera a viable company. If a company does not have time for the "basics" of marketing then they are in big financial trouble or very inexperienced. The newer the company the higher the level of promotion. You clearly missed my point by clumping me with the Aptera "nuts" with identities that are attached to the vehicle. If they said there would be newsletters monthly then send them. I know what they would say and I could care less but false promises are not good for image building. There is more talk about competitors' offerings then Aptera now.

[JimmyDreams]

cus·tom·er
Pronunciation:
\ˈkəs-tə-mər\
Function:
noun
Etymology:
Middle English custumer, from custume
Date:
15th century

1 : one that purchases a commodity or service

No one on this forum meets that description. And by definition, Aptera hasn't sold anything to anyone.

We can make suggestions, express our hopes, and voice our displeasure over PERCEIVED injustices, but in the end, Aptera will do whatever they see as in their best interest.

I myself am content to wait and see what they do. Their silence bothers me none.

[evmavin]

cus·tom·er
Pronunciation:
\ˈkəs-tə-mər\
Function:
noun
Etymology:
Middle English custumer, from custume
Date:
15th century

1 : one that purchases a commodity or service

No one on this forum meets that description. And by definition, Aptera hasn't sold anything to anyone.

We can make suggestions, express our hopes, and voice our displeasure over PERCEIVED injustices, but in the end, Aptera will do whatever they see as in their best interest.

I myself am content to wait and see what they do. Their silence bothers me none.


Nor me. But poor marketing applied to a good product is disappointing. The word is better applied as "prospect" not customer.

[JimmyDreams]

Nor me. But poor marketing applied to a good product is disappointing. The word is better applied as "prospect" not customer.

I'll agree, EVMAVIN, but further still, what good product are they marketing poorly? I don't see anything yet TO market!

I don't know....talking about marketing when the product isn't yet completed is putting the cart before the horse. JMHO.

[evmavin]

I'll agree, EVMAVIN, but further still, what good product are they marketing poorly? I don't see anything yet TO market!

I don't know....talking about marketing when the product isn't yet completed is putting the cart before the horse. JMHO.


That's just good marketing, if it were not they would have remained hidden and then shown the product when finished. This is why engineers are not good at marketing, generally speaking of course..

[palmer_md]

I'll agree, EVMAVIN, but further still, what good product are they marketing poorly? I don't see anything yet TO market!

I don't know....talking about marketing when the product isn't yet completed is putting the cart before the horse. JMHO.


Aptera should be "marketing" their company since they dont yet have a product. Its never a bad idea to make your company look good.

[Don]

The very fact that Aptera requested reservations, the very fact that Aptera later urged a lock-in, says in no uncertaun terms that it was they who wished to initiate a contact with a customer base. Therefore, they do owe at least some timely acknowledgements to those people who have placed a great amount of faith and trust in them. As one here said, pr folks have nothing to do but serve as conduits for that happening. Maybe all the pr people have left. Maybe Aptera has decided to back out and not inform anyone. Or maybe none of the above. So much of what has been expressed on this forum is hypothetical and in the realm of could be.

Now, it has taken me only a few brief minutes to type this and that with one finger at a time. Look how much information could be dispensed by someone proficient in typing, say, someone at Aptera. I doubt that all this time has gone by with nothing to report. If engineers are working on solutions, there should be enough information to convey to their supporters. That would be a heck of a lot better than to engage in speculation about unknown aspects of the company - put the suspicions to rest.

OK, nuff said. My two cents.

[kerbe]

The very fact that Aptera requested reservations, the very fact that Aptera later urged a lock-in, says in no uncertaun terms that it was they who wished to initiate a contact with a customer base. Therefore, they do owe at least some timely acknowledgements to those people who have placed a great amount of faith and trust in them. As one here said, pr folks have nothing to do but serve as conduits for that happening. Maybe all the pr people have left. Maybe Aptera has decided to back out and not inform anyone. Or maybe none of the above. So much of what has been expressed on this forum is hypothetical and in the realm of could be.

Now, it has taken me only a few brief minutes to type this and that with one finger at a time. Look how much information could be dispensed by someone proficient in typing, say, someone at Aptera. I doubt that all this time has gone by with nothing to report. If engineers are working on solutions, there should be enough information to convey to their supporters. That would be a heck of a lot better than to engage in speculation about unknown aspects of the company - put the suspicions to rest.

OK, nuff said. My two cents.

You make good points, but I think too many participants in this forum believe that it is run by Aptera -- or that someone at Aptera is reading/monitoring it.

[JimmyDreams]

You make good points, but I think too many participants in this forum believe that it is run by Aptera -- or that someone at Aptera is reading/monitoring it.

We have numerous confirmations that people at Aptera do indeed read this forum.

"Tell karen we said HI" is a good one.... :)

[greenguy]

I bet the locked-in folks are getting a bit nervous from what I read.....

JMHO:rolleye0003: :thumbsup:

[APTERA 2356]

I'm locked in ,I am not nervous and I have no doubt that Aptera will deliver.

My only fear is that I will loose my job before it gets delivered and I'll have to opt out

[Holz]

I'm locked in ,I am not nervous and I have no doubt that Aptera will deliver.

My only fear is that I will loose my job before it gets delivered and I'll have to opt out
Maybe we should set up an auction site for those on the waiting list who do end up finding themselves in a bind!

[APTERA 2356]

If that were to happen I'd act as someones proxy to get all my money back or maybe turn a small profit.

I'm sure someone would pay an extra $500 to get their Aptera earlier.

[imlucid]

I'm sure someone would pay an extra $500 to get their Aptera earlier.

You got that right!

[organik]

Happily waiting for my 2e, no matter how long it takes. I just want Aptera to get it right the first time...since they (IMO) are the beginning of the new American auto industry.

[iwannaptera]

You got that right!

One has to be careful about how the deal is structured. I don't want to start another long digression, but there are many considerations:

Aptera has stated that the reservation holder will need to be the one who purchases and registers the vehicle in California.

If you wish to jump in line by purchasing a 2e or 2h through someone with a lower res number, keep in mind that you would probably have to pay sales tax and fees twice. Once to pay the reservation holder's sales tax and registration fees (title and licence), and once to pay your own sales tax and fees when you purchase from the res. holder. Of course you can pay these double fees in one transaction, but it would still be double fees.

It has been discussed before that there may be legal, easy ways around this. The easiest in my mind is the 3-way transaction that Karen came up with:

I have a res number you want and can no longer afford the car.
You and and I and a partner of mine (spouse or brother or friend etc) purchase the 2e or 2h as co-owners and register it.
You buy me and my partner out. The total value of each buyout at 1/3 of the purchase price (+ a convenience fee of 1000 of course :character0012: ) is less than the IRS minimum for taxable "gifting" which is 13000 for 2009.

If you want a 45K (or anything over 36K) tricked out 2h, it would have to be a 4 way transaction with either you or I getting another partner. You can buy out your extra partner or mine it doesn't matter.

Sounds complicated, but as long as you have a spouse, partner, or family member or trusted friend, it is really pretty simple and legal.

Other people have come up with more complicated methods involving fake addresses and other sketchy details. Pay no attention to the anarchists.:happy0025:

EDIT: Looks like married couples can "gift split" so if you are married it would simplify the transaction. You and I co-buy the car. You and your spouse each gift 1/3rd of the purchase price (+ convenience fee) back to me. The limit for married couples gifts to a single person is 26K/year (13K*2).

[evmavin]

If two people have legit reservations and want to switch, I don't see why Aptera would care, it is not the same as buying out of state. If you don't have a reservation then that is an issue though.

[OC-LA driver]

3-way as described won't get you an exemption from double sales tax on the reservation holder's portion, imho. Details follow if interested.

You didn't mention the first "gift", which is the cash buyer giving the reservation holder the cash with which to buy his 1/3 (or paying for the whole car and listing the reservation holder as a 1/3 owner). The second "gift" is the reservation holder giving his 1/3 interest in the car back to you. But in fact neither is a gift, because the IRS should apply a step transaction rule to examine the whole series of transactions, and conclude that these are not bona fide gifts, but an exchange for value i.e. a sale.

Hence I think the state would consider you to be buying back the reservation holder's 1/3 interest and impose state sales tax thereon.

It's possible you could do all this and no one would notice it's not really a gift. Just saying I don't think it would withstand scrutiny. Worth a shot perhaps though CA could use the money!

If the state miraculously agrees that since one party paid for the whole car the name changes are irrelevant (which I doubt), then maybe there's only one sales tax. But you've misled Aptera. Not sure Aptera cares so long as the reservation holder is among the original buyers, as someone else here noted. Probably helps them to show a 100% sales conversion rate and zero dropouts...moves all the dropouts to later in the queue (and gives them a head's up as to the shortening queue).

[iwannaptera]

3-way as described won't get you an exemption from double sales tax on the reservation holder's portion, imho. Details follow if interested.

You didn't mention the first "gift", which is the cash buyer giving the reservation holder the cash with which to buy his 1/3 (or paying for the whole car and listing the reservation holder as a 1/3 owner).


In my proposed scheme the res holder would essentially front the money by actually paying for 1/3 of the vehicle. So your first "gift" doesn't exist.

The second "gift" is the reservation holder giving his 1/3 interest in the car back to you.

In my scheme this would occur. The res holder would additionally get a 13K max cash "gift."

But in fact neither is a gift, because the IRS should apply a step transaction rule to examine the whole series of transactions, and conclude that these are not bona fide gifts, but an exchange for value i.e. a sale.

Yes, now that you mention it. That is the crux of the problem. If my proposed scheme were valid, I could go down to best buy and they could "gift" me a flat screen TV, and I could "gift" them 1.5K, and there wouldn't be any sales tax owed. Obviously that is ridiculous.

Back to the drawing board.....

[iwannaptera]

If two people have legit reservations and want to switch, I don't see why Aptera would care, it is not the same as buying out of state. If you don't have a reservation then that is an issue though.

Interesting idea. I like the swtich idea.

[hill]

i don't 100% agree...

i admit they are focusing on getting the lastest model up and running. and getting the facilities up to stuff and all that...

but the PR department ain't doing none of that...the PR people don't design the car, don't work on building the car nor do they work on the general facilities...


they do PR...and they are slacking...

but i hope to get some news soon on the lastest build...

and maybe the myaptera site soon too

g

Having seen WONDERFULL web pages of non existent EV's isn't any better. Take these folks:

http://www.phoenixmotorcars.com/

How long have they been promising to produce for the general population?

[aptera1213]

not sure why you would compare the two...i actually believe aptera will make a car and have it out by jan 2010.

i think aptera can make a car and have a website and have updates...

but i don't think it's ok that aptera slack on the PR front just because some other companies do PR and don't have a car to sell...i see them as totally different things...

which is why i have a deposit with aptera and not phoenix


gawd, i hope you aren't saying aptera is just like phoenix...that would break my heart...

[Richard A]

Not knowing is usually worse than bad news, because it opens the door for rumor and speculation - which are often negative. This isn't a PR slogan, just common sense or Business 101 for those w/o common sense.
#170

[paddler13]

Aptera is going to make a car too? :confused: :aptera:

[NeilBlanchard]

Hi,

Yes, Aptera is planning to make a 4-wheeled 4 (or 5?) seater; named either "Project X" and later referred to as "Palomar". All we "know" about it is that it will be recognizable as an Aptera.

[rayfellow]

I've been thinking about Aptera's no news approach. I think it's a mistake. Mostly because the economy is in the toilet, money is hard to come by, and they are at a critical stage of ramping up for production. The Aptera staff has - to date - been so forthcoming with information, the changes in the various prototypes tested, and showing the vehicle to the public.

Now - silence. It's a shame, since they went to all the trouble to include us in the process and their philosophy of the vehicle. It can only make one wonder if they are not happy or positive about the production ramp up process.

Personally, I love telling anybody interested the Aptera story... I wish I knew how it's going now... pass it along.

Bottom line - why not tell us how it's going.. the good, bad and ugly. We know the Aptera team is smart. Keep us in to loop. We are your future sales staff.

[ev_nv]

Rayfellow,

I agree. The silence just creates more concerns about delays. The longer the Aptera team holds off on the first release of their vehicle the more capital they burn up before they can start generating real revenue.

Also, if they start discussing their future product plans they will discourage customer from actually buying their first product once it's out the door. The company has much to gain by being the first all-electric for sale in the US, if they can get their product out this year.

Any more silence and delay will definitely cause them to lose their custom-base, even if with reserved list. If, by the time the 2e (or whatever the model number is) is released, if there are viable 4-wheel all-electrics with freeway-speed and 100 mpc performance available, Aptera will definitely lose their thunder and customers.

[Ardie3301]

I was hoping that Aptera's silence was because they were preparing for another public event, and I was hoping/expecting to see them at the Father's Day car show on Rodeo Drive in Beverly Hills.

Here's a blub from Autoblog.com about it:
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/06/21/fathers-day-90210-style-the-2009-rodeo-drive-concours-deleg/

The theme this year was to be alternative fuel vehicles on display. There was the U of M's solared powered car, a BMW Mini-E, a Tesla, several Smarts, a Detroit Electric, but the jewel of the show after the Delahaye, in my eyes anyway) was the Gilda. Not a peep about the Aptera.

Why? I have no idea. Anyway, it was a fun way to spend Father's Day.

-- Ardie

[scottsim]

I admit to being a pest, but thought we could use a boost...nothing specific here, but at least they are still "at home"....S


We are in the process of producing vehicles that will go through internal and external evaluation for fit, finish, performance and durability. Volume production and delivery will begin in the 4th quarter of this year for the Aptera 2e. We will provide a build schedule closer to the production launch of the 2e.

Thank you for your reservation and continued support with Aptera!

Best Regards,

ray segismar | aptera
carlsbad, ca 92010


www.aptera.com

This electronic mail is intended to be received and read only by certain individuals. It may contain information that is confidential, attorney-client privileged or protected from disclosure by law. If it has been misdirected, or if you suspect you have received this in error, please notify me by replying and then delete both the message and reply. Thank you.

No employee or agent of Aptera Motors, Inc. ("Aptera") is authorized to conclude any legally binding agreement by email. Agreements with Aptera must be confirmed in writing in a definitive agreement signed by a duly authorized representative of Aptera or through a purchase orders issued by Aptera. Any specifications, requirements, or unit or sales volume numbers provided to suppliers are estimates only and are not commitments by Aptera.

From: Scott Simkover [mailto:simkover@pacbell.net]
Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 8:15 PM
To: family
Subject: Reservation questions

You have received a contact form submission from simkover@pacbell.net. The message is below:

Keeping the Faith...but... Need to know more about the Apteras likelyhood of making it to market...Many on the forum have been raising doubts...It would be a REALLY good time to show that you are still on track...Thanks, Scott

[1E 1721]

I got the same email.. I politely suggested that they should send this info to reservation holders.

[scottsim]

also this...least I can get an Aptera hat...my Tesla hat gets a lot of use....


We are having our Aptera store online coming soon, so stay tuned…

Thank you for your interest in Aptera!

Best Regards,

ray segismar | aptera
carlsbad, ca 92010


www.aptera.com

This electronic mail is intended to be received and read only by certain individuals. It may contain information that is confidential, attorney-client privileged or protected from disclosure by law. If it has been misdirected, or if you suspect you have received this in error, please notify me by replying and then delete both the message and reply. Thank you.

No employee or agent of Aptera Motors, Inc. ("Aptera") is authorized to conclude any legally binding agreement by email. Agreements with Aptera must be confirmed in writing in a definitive agreement signed by a duly authorized representative of Aptera or through a purchase orders issued by Aptera. Any specifications, requirements, or unit or sales volume numbers provided to suppliers are estimates only and are not commitments by Aptera.

From: Scott Simkover [mailto:simkover@pacbell.net]
Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 2:26 AM
To: customer service
Subject: General customer service

You have received a contact form submission from simkover@pacbell.net. The message is below:

Hats?...T-shirts?...easier to sell than cars!...S

[Matthijs]

It seems the Aptera Twitter channel is still active:

sorry we've been so quiet here lately! We're working hard toward the Aptera 2e release in the 4th quarter of this year.

That's from 2 days ago. Latest post 14 hours ago.

[ApteraH@3535]

And they will return to the show-and-drives eventually

rcvd 23 June:
Hi,

We will continue with our touring events in Orange County and Los Angeles, details are still pending at this time. We will announce to the deposit holders once we have more information and details for our next event.

We are in the process of producing vehicles that will go through internal and external evaluation for fit, finish, performance and durability. Volume production and delivery will begin in the 4th quarter of this year for the Aptera 2e.

We will provide more detailed information in regards to the Aptera 2h following the production launch of the Aptera 2e in the 4th quarter of this year.

Thank you for your interest in Aptera!

Best Regards,

ray segismar | aptera
carlsbad, ca 92010

[RainCaster]

I agree with others here- silence does not do well for Aptera. Silence can be a dramatic thing for Steve Jobs and all his minions of fruit-fan-boys who all anxiously wait for the next trinket of technology to spew forth from on high

Doesn't work well here at all. Autos are way too expensive, and Aptera has no street cred yet. Tell us about it, keep us informed and we will become your fans. Continued silence makes me think the Aptera has gone to visit Elvis and Jacko...

[evmavin]

I don't think roll down windows is a milestone at this point, it would seem that a healthy economy, government incentives, or more funding would be a milestone at this point based on the present mood, and whose milestones you are speaking about. If all was going as planned I think it would not be so quiet, but that may end up being a function of the street price going forward.

[aptera1213]

my hope is that they are using this silent time to get their 50...no, 49 state program set up (forget alaska, too big, too cold for electric cars for now)...

the only way aptera will both survive and "thrive" is 3 fold.

1) make a good car...but this alone won't work...many mediocre cars thrive, many great cars died or never got off the drawing board...

so next...

2) get your car out first...if aptera takes too long and mits and nissan and others already have electric cars out, well it will be tough for aptera to be anything other than niche and basically for the people who want a "jetsons" car. but if they get a good car out first they have a "chance" to do well and be a leader

3) get the car out to all 49 states (hawaii would be perfect for the aptera...you couldn't run through the battery if you tried)
and do it the minute you start filling orders. basically in nov or dec or jan you roll out the first pre-orders. "Today we are not only rolling out our first cars to the people who have been supporting us from day one, but we are also taking new pre-orders from all 48 contiguous states, plus Hawaii."

if aptera is thought of as a California only car, it will stay niche. if they don't roll out to the other states till mits and nissan and others are already rolling in those states, aptera will stay niche...

now there is nothing wrong with niche per say, but it all depends on if aptera wants to be small and do ok (selling one to five thousand cars a year), or if they really want to play with the big boys and become a larger player (10, 20 or more thousand cars a year)...

[KarenRei]

my hope is that they are using this silent time to get their 50...no, 49 state program set up (forget alaska, too big, too cold for electric cars for now)...

I don't think AKEVA (the Alaska Electric Vehicles Association) would be happy with you for that stance. ;)

And actually, the climate and population density along the southern coast isn't actually that bad. No worse than Montana.

[paddler13]

It would actually be quite easy to run through the battery in Hawaii, especially on the Big Island. In fact, I ran Karen's simulator on a trip up to Haleakala from sea level on Maui and ran out of battery just before the top. But yes, of all the States Hawaii is probably the best proving ground for electric vehicles. Alas, as in all things, we will be forgotten about by mainlanders and only the very rich, like the guy who imported his Tesla to Honolulu, will get their hands on EVs this decade.

[KarenRei]

Eh, they'll come. First off, though, I think Hawaii really needs to make a bigger effort to get off burning oil to generate electricity.

[APTERA 2356]

Hey paddler,
I now live in California but also own a home in Puna on the big island. I hopefully will be retired in a few years and will be moving to Hawaii for retirement . when I move to Puna full time the Aptera gets shipped to the island. So you will see Aptera in hawaii eventually. with Hawaii's intrest in renewable energy production it's a natural (except for HELCO rates) I guess I will need a PV system

[paddler13]

Karen, Hawaii is most definitely doing that and much faster than anyone on the mainland. Wind farms are going it or are already operational, an algae test facility is in the works as well as increased grid-tie PV and a test 2.7MW wave facility scheduled for the north shore of Maui. I'm not sure about the other islands but the state has already committed to 70% renewables by 2030 and is putting real pressure on utilities to comply. I've already been involved in one meeting in the last couple of months with the utility here on Maui where they made it clear they were under the gun to change their ways and were actively soliciting input from all interested parties. The PUC is seriously considering a Feed in Tariff though whether it will get through on the first attempt is up in the air.

Aptera 2356 if you're going to Puna there are already a lot of renewables since a lot of that area is not served by utility power anyway (having an active volcano makes installing infrastructure iffy in remote areas). So there are both battery based and grid tie systems already in place on the Hilo side. There is an excellent PV company in Hilo.

[KarenRei]

Karen, Hawaii is most definitely doing that and much faster than anyone on the mainland.

Except in rare circumstances, the mainland doesn't burn oil for electricity. Last I checked, something like 70% of Hawaii's power came from burning oil.

That said, you are right that Hawaii does seem to be having a big push for cleaning up their grid. It's a shame that geothermal is such a sensitive issue in Hawaii. It may take some EGS techniques, but there's no shortage of water (at the very least seawater) in close proximity to some tremendous heat resources. EGS could turn Hawaii into another Iceland.

[paddler13]

The mainland may not burn oil but it sure burns fossil fuels. Yes, the majority of Hawaii's power comes from burning diesel fuel. Moving energy from island to island is no small feat as the island are separated by 12,000 foot deep canyons filled with ocean with pretty vicious currents. It's why people don't sail between islands unless they have to. So with the tremendous heat being limited to the Big Island it leave Kauai and Oahu, and probably Maui, out of the loop for that technology.

I think we're going to see some combination of liquefied salts (if the technology proves out), wave energy (ditto), PV, Wind and bio-fuels with, hopefully, bio-fuel being only a small percentage.

[KarenRei]

Moving energy from island to island is no small feat as the island are separated by 12,000 foot deep canyons filled with ocean with pretty vicious currents

Hello, energy! ;)

Why dip your turbines into the air when you could dip into that? :) I suppose the challenge would be in anchoring the turbines in place.

So with the tremendous heat being limited to the Big Island it leave Kauai and Oahu, and probably Maui, out of the loop for that technology.

Meh, I wouldn't think it'd be any harder to build than some of these:

http://wpcontent.answers.com/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ab/HVDC_Europe.svg/350px-HVDC_Europe.svg.png

(Red=Existing; Green=Under construction; Blue=Proposed)

It'd be really great if they could build that Iceland interconnect -- linking its geothermal and hydroelectric power with that of mainland Europe. Especially if their pilot EGS project pays off. The UK has a fair bit of coal power, and Iceland could replace it.

[paddler13]

There is a proposed underwater intertie between a potential wind farm on Lanai, which needs only a relatively small amount of energy, and Oahu but then people propose all sorts of things that never get off the drawing board. Plus one aspect of our energy independence movement here is that we also want energy security and the weakness of depending on power from somewhere else delivered by a pretty vulnerable undersea cable is one of security and the long down time if the cable is damaged and must be repaired or replaced. Better to have each island provide its own power in a manner most appropriate to that island. That way the Big Island could utilize thermal systems while Maui could use the mix suggested for here, etc.

The wave project about to go in on the north shore will be taking advantage of the ocean's energy, no need to get out into the really powerful currents if they aren't necessary, too much to overcome to make it work. A series of wave energy generators along the coast would do just fine.

Maui needs a total generation capacity of around 200-250 MW to provide all the energy we are currently using and more provide enough for reasonable growth.

[KarenRei]

I'm strongly opposed to the concept of every (blank) having to fend for itself. It promotes inefficiency to a major degree and slows down the pace of advancement. Instead, I'm a big supporter of redundancy.

Wave's still really pricey. I hope it'll come down, but who knows.

[paddler13]

We would love to be redundant but the particulars of this island group make it problematic and more costly than any benefit we'd see. It might be a benefit to Oahu, with about 80% of the state's population and an already creaky and unreliable grid system but for the rest of us the economics just aren't there.

The redundancy will have to be internal to every island with each island making sure it isn't relying on only one power generation type for energy needs.

One of the things most non-Hawaiians don't seem to realize is that this state is comprised of islands with very different cultures, it's always been that way even in pre-contact days. Without air travel we'd be quite isolated from each other and people who live on one island generally aren't comfortable with the idea of living on another. I know none of the other islands appeal to me as much as Maui does but I also know people who wouldn't live anywhere but Honolulu. Go figure.

There are many different potential technologies that use wave energy to generate power. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

[turbo wing]

A focused work ethic on what is really important for the success of this vehicle... meeting (or at least coming close to) their self-imposed fall deadline to produce a vehicle that they have promised the world.

The exposure and excitement phase is about over, it's time to really get busy working out all the small details that will make this vehicle match or exceed the fit and finish level of a real production car.

Aptera has promised a lot... final chemistry batteries under the seats, more space in the rear, narrower front track, roll-down windows with a new side door profile, top-hinged rear hatch, improved front wheel pants and a whole new rear wheel housing... not to mention the tons of programming and coordination of all the electronics: the many touch-screen functions, GPS and stereo. All this, plus the upcoming Automotive X-Prize have the Aptera team scrambling to meet deadlines.

The timing is perfect and the world awaits. The collapse of GM and Chrysler have put alternatives like Aptera center stage. The 2e will not be the answer to everyone's needs, but if successful, it will give Aptera a unprecedented opportunity - a once in a century opportunity - to build a company at the forefront of a whole new automotive generation.

The EV field is littered with start-up companies that are mostly talk about pretty computer renderings. Aptera has actually produced multiple working prototypes... and is very busy figuring out its final version. Does that help explain the silence?




I disagree, I was under the impression that the office staff (who would be responsible for news letters) and the shop guys who work on the car have there own responsibilities, there is no reason for Aptera going quiet, all the other teams have the same work load and still manage to get company up dates out

[danieloneil01]

Well we have a poster that has an insider. And hopefully we get ex-employees that can give us a scoop as to what the hell is going on over there.

[KarenRei]

Getting laid off doesn't free you from an NDA. Of course, they might be willing to speak anonymously.

[mikekinney]

I think we know why Aptera has been so silent as of late. They did not want to tip their hand as to the major changes within the company. They are probably working on a press release now that puts a positive spin on their "re-organization".

[turbo wing]

I think we know why Aptera has been so silent as of late. They did not want to tip their hand as to the major changes within the company. They are probably working on a press release now that puts a positive spin on their "re-organization".


That's a nice thought but most likely they are running into troubles and can't admit it, If they were going to release good news I'm sure there would be some hint of this by now

[Richard A]

I haven't received anything from Aptera for months, and the web site doesn't appear to have been updated for months plus. If anyone is getting solid info, what is it and how do we all get tapped into real information?
Richard 2e #170.

[Matthijs]

I haven't received anything from Aptera for months, and the web site doesn't appear to have been updated for months plus. If anyone is getting solid info, what is it and how do we all get tapped into real information?
Richard 2e #170.

It's a good idea to read this thread: http://apteraforum.com/showthread.php?p=39763