7/27/09 - Aptera Newsletter

[futura]

Still holding to launching "later this year"... good news.
Here:

http://www.aptera.com/newsletter072709/
http://www.aptera.com/newsletter072709/i/feature.jpg
A Sneak Peek of the Production Aptera 2e Interior (A Newsletter Exclusive)

By now many of you are familiar with the interior of our PP4 show vehicle, so here's a quick first look at what you can expect to see in the Aptera 2e production vehicle.

For starters, we should probably review the process that led us to make any changes in the first place. To enhance your overall driving experience, we conducted clinical research on all vehicle details, which uncovered a number of issues that could have been potential "dissatisfiers" in our original designs. Accordingly, we have been busy working to correct them ever since.

The first major issue was space. We tested men and women of every age and stature and found, in many cases, we were not offering enough room in the cabin. With that information, we enhanced the cabin using our Aptera formula -- safety, then aerodynamics, then lightweight. The new interior cabin is now roughly 10% larger by every measure.

The new 2 series also now has headroom and legroom comparable to, if not better than, the Mini and Chevy Volt. We widened the area at the hips to provide more space than the Smart EV and the Nissan Cube. Then to top it off, we increased our cargo capacity by more than 24 cubic feet, which is nearly two times the space available in the Honda Accord.

The next issue, interestingly enough, was perception of space. Many people, when surveyed, felt the cabin was dark and imposing, so we're introducing 'Eva,' your electronic travel companion. 'Eva' is the nickname we have given to the new body colored center console in the vehicle, and, yes, we were watching Wall-E when we came up with the name. What is more important, though, is the function and flare that Eva brings to the cabin.

For starters, the body color accents that frame Eva augment lightness into the cabin, dividing the interior into two distinctive zones. The result is an interior aesthetic that is consistent with the lightweight structure of the vehicle.

Inside, Eva houses the vehicle computing and infotainment systems. We'll elaborate on the computing system at a later date, but we can tell you that Eva likely has twice the computing power of any machine in your house. Beyond that, Eva is the home of your heating and A/C controls, vents and a little more storage space than we had before.

Follow the waterfall down and you come to the "large enough for a Big Gulp" cup holders and our new shift controller that has been repositioned to be more ergonomic. Just turn the jewel-like knob and you can select from three distinctive drive states (not including park, reverse and neutral) and even tune your....Nope, we will save that special feature for later.

Let's talk about the new seat construction that has adjustable headrests and seat frame mounted airbags. The seat foam has been reconstructed to be more full and comfortable, and it's now soy-based. On the surface of the seat we now have three material options. The base seat is composed of post-consumer plastics, and now there is an upgrade option for a leatherette (also made from post-consumer plastics) and a top-grade leather option. In any trim, the seats provide a nice frame for the newly redesigned, adjustable armrest and center console-mounted park brake, although we don't yet have picture of those. We have to hold your attention until we launch later this year.

[KarenRei]

Disappointing that they're offering leather seats (I'm sure that's a huge impact to the car's carbon footprint), but that explains another small chunk of the wide options range and is another thing I don't need to waste money on. ;)

Over 24 *more* cubic feet of cargo space? Holy *@!#(*&*. What's the goal, enough room back there to open a water park in the trunk? ;) Good to know I'll be able to transport a pair of indian elephants back there if I need to. ;)

I look forward to the final ground clearance spec. It'll affect what routes I'll be able to take on my Aptera trip. I have a feeling I'll be disappointed and get Prius-level clearance, esp. after the recent interior room increases, but oh well.

[KarenRei]

Wow, talk about burying the lede -- you should have quoted the Fambro interview:

Most drivers associate sports cars with driving fun, which usually means brisk acceleration, powerful braking and nimble, crisp handling. Not surprising to us, the same things that make a good sports car are generally found in a very efficient vehicle -- like the Aptera 2e.

For anybody who's taken a physics class, remember that Force = Mass x Acceleration (F = M x A). To find acceleration, divide force by mass, which means acceleration is proportional to the force needed to move the mass. More simply, acceleration is a matter of power to weight, and the Aptera 2e's power to weight ratio verges on sports car numbers, much better than most hybrid or economy cars, so it really scoots!

And acceleration isn't just about moving forward. Braking is essentially a matter of deceleration, and lateral acceleration speaks to handling. The smaller and lower the mass of the vehicle, the quicker it's slowed during braking and the more nimble it becomes when flicked side to side. So the strong, lightweight design of the Aptera composite chassis, combined with the dense battery weight sitting low in the vehicle's belly, means better braking and handling that will (and has) embarrassed a lot of other cars.

By the way, the Aptera 2e's aerodynamic shape doesn't just increase its range; it's a key to de-limiting high-speed performance. The top speeds of most performance cars are ultimately restricted by their inability to slip through the air, needing vast amounts of power to overcome the wall of air they're fighting. But the 2e doesn't fight; it slices - right through the air. And while Aptera NEVER condones unsafe driving on public roads, its low-drag-shape allows it to exceed 100 mph with only 23 HP and break 200 mph with just 150 HP. I can't confirm or deny that either of those has been done. All I can say is: this is a FUN vehicle to drive!

Which raises the question... am I unexpectedly buying a sports car? ;)

[Apt3448]

Any news is good news. I would have liked specifics on many more things (windows?), but hey... I was also wondering about the extra space. The cargo space increased once the batteries were out of the cargo area, and underneath the seats But the increase is quite dramatic. I hope that does not lead to a pregnant-belly look. My current Lincoln Town Car has enough cargo space for two bodies plus concrete for the shoes, but I so rarely have such transportation needs...

Anyone care to guess what extra feature you can tune? Regen?

And like Karen, I will be able to save some money by avoiding the leather.

"later this year" i like the sound of that!

And they always were big on the performance aspect, but also mentioned electronic limitation of speed at some point (which some of you may want to bypass, I presume?)

[KarenRei]

Just to do some math, in case anyone's curious -- 150hp at 200mph is a force of ~1,250 newtons. If all of that was aero drag, and under STP conditions, that'd mean a CdA of 0.24 square meters, which would correspond to a cross-sectional area of under 2,500 square inches. Of course, not all of it is aero drag. At 200 mph, ancillary and rolling losses should be pretty small. Drivetrain losses won't, though. Any losses that aren't aero means that the aero losses are even smaller, which means that the CdA is lower.

So, by his statement, Steve seems to have *maxed* the 2e's drag area at about that of a Twike. And probably lower by 25% or so after accounting for all other losses. By comparison, a Prius has a drag area of 0.58 (just below an Elise -- and, assumedly, a Roadster); a Civic, 0.65; and a Hummer H2, 2.46.

[KarenRei]

Anyone care to guess what extra feature you can tune? Regen?

Another thread quotes Steve as saying that they let you tune regen. Once again, Aptera gets brownie points for paying attention to the insatiable demands of its customer base. ;)

[futura]

Wow, talk about burying the lede -- you should have quoted the Fambro interview:...)
Yeah, my bad.
Cheers

[c0mp13x]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00579/In_Gear_579339a.jpg
Love this pic...

Geeze futura and Karen... no cartwheels and confetti?!

After such a dry spell of no news and a floundering automotive market, I'm just happy to see that Aptera is alive and still shooting for later this year!:happy0005:

As for leather... yeah, save your money and splurge for the soda-bottle leatherette.

Eva? I don't know if she's making the interior that "light and airy". Eva looks like she takes up more cabin space... but I'll reserve my final vote for the production vehicle.

If the tunable feature is regen... all this forum babble has been worth it. The Aptera will truly be a revolutionary vehicle. I think that is a game-changing feature for a EV. Imagine reaching down to the console while you slow in traffic to tweak regen... awesome!

:doublethumbs:

[Tamerlin]

The new 2 series also now has headroom and legroom comparable to, if not better than, the Mini and Chevy Volt.

Unfortunately I don't fit in a Mini. But I'll wait for the production model.

With the version they showed at Palo Alto in April I couldn't enter the vehicle without smashing my legs on the driving wheel.

[Aptera#1434]

Unfortunately I don't fit in a Mini. But I'll wait for the production model.

With the version they showed at Palo Alto in April I couldn't enter the vehicle without smashing my legs on the driving wheel.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Fambro told me that the steering wheel would be adjustable. The vehicle at the Palo Alto Show couldn't be adjusted and wasn't the final version.

[aptera1213]

Unfortunately I don't fit in a Mini. But I'll wait for the production model.

With the version they showed at Palo Alto in April I couldn't enter the vehicle without smashing my legs on the driving wheel.


what is your size??

i know two people who think the mini fits them better than almost any car...one is 6' 5" and the other 6' 7"....

[aptera1213]

Wow, talk about burying the lede -- you should have quoted the Fambro interview:



Which raises the question... am I unexpectedly buying a sports car? ;)


burying the lede....heck the lead should be that the "Aptera Lifestyle Shop Goes Live"


off to buy a shirt or two...


gah..edit...goes live july 31st...

good to get a newsletter ;)

[D Jetson]

Can't wait to see what :logo: goodies will be available

[jstdadd]

Does anyone have the link to the Aptera page for the newsletter? It hasn't come in my email (I think Cox has blacklisted Aptera as a spammer...) :-(

[Dolphyn]

It's at the top of this thread: http://www.aptera.com/newsletter072709/

Historically, Aptera newsletters have often taken several days to arrive by email. Nobody seems to know why, as far as I know.

[Dubito]

Does anyone have the link to the Aptera page for the newsletter? It hasn't come in my email (I think Cox has blacklisted Aptera as a spammer...) :-(

http://www.aptera.com/newsletter072709/

Aptera has yearly styling updates, just not the vehicles. Yet.

[speculawyer]

Wow, talk about burying the lede -- you should have quoted the Fambro interview:

Which raises the question... am I unexpectedly buying a sports car? ;)
I liked Fambro's column too (though nitpicking . . . 'de-limiting'?)

But no, you are not buying a sports car. But you can certainly make it into one by replacing the motor with a bigger one.

I suspect they have had the Aptera up to 150mph. But I doubt 200mph. Not that it can't be done but they've got more important things to be working on.

[speculawyer]

Historically, Aptera newsletters have often taken several days to arrive by email. Nobody seems to know why, as far as I know.
It is probably just a small single server that slowly contacts each and every receiving mail server associated with people on the mailing list. It just takes time and is probably doing such mail at a lower priority than their normal mail. E-mail version of 'bulk post'.

[KarenRei]

I liked Fambro's column too (though nitpicking . . . 'de-limiting'?)

But no, you are not buying a sports car. But you can certainly make it into one by replacing the motor with a bigger one.

I suspect they have had the Aptera up to 150mph. But I doubt 200mph. Not that it can't be done but they've got more important things to be working on.

I'm not so sure they haven't. But my suspicion is that without a multi-gear transmission, they'll have to choose between acceleration and top speed for the production version, and they'll reasonably pick acceleration.

[jstdadd]

I'm in for the leather seats. I hope I get a good range of colors.

I was gonna say something about getting wood with leather, but I won't. At least both are renewable.:tongue0006:

[KarenRei]

It is probably just a small single server that slowly contacts each and every receiving mail server associated with people on the mailing list. It just takes time and is probably doing such mail at a lower priority than their normal mail. E-mail version of 'bulk post'.

My suspicion is that their server is connected to the net by RFC 1149 (http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1149) or RFC 2549 (http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2549).

[speculawyer]

The next issue, interestingly enough, was perception of space. Many people, when surveyed, felt the cabin was dark and imposing, so we're introducing 'Eva,' your electronic travel companion. 'Eva' is the nickname we have given to the new body colored center console in the vehicle, and, yes, we were watching Wall-E when we came up with the name. What is more important, though, is the function and flare that Eva brings to the cabin.
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k153/speculawyer/EVAcircled.jpghttp://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k153/speculawyer/wall-e-eve.jpg


:happy0005:

[jstdadd]

I liked Fambro's column too (though nitpicking . . . 'de-limiting'?)

But no, you are not buying a sports car. But you can certainly make it into one by replacing the motor with a bigger one.

I suspect they have had the Aptera up to 150mph. But I doubt 200mph. Not that it can't be done but they've got more important things to be working on.

If I were sitting in an Aptera at 150mph and the acceleration had more to give, you can bet your paycheck I would take it as far as it would go.:sign0020:

[jstdadd]

My suspicion is that their server is connected to the net by RFC 1149 (http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1149) or RFC 2549 (http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2549).

I think their email connection to the internet is via X.25 as a peripheral connection to an old ATM machine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:RegVarneyATM.jpg


...because I've toured the Diebold factory, and I think they had that capability.:sign0020:

[jstdadd]

Anybody want to speculate on what "...the new body-colored center console..." means in terms of body color?

[speculawyer]

Anybody want to speculate on what "...the new body-colored center console..." means in terms of body color?
The center console and car body are both white.

[Apt3448]

Anybody want to speculate on what "...the new body-colored center console..." means in terms of body color?

That one is easy, scroll back to the picture of EVE: body is white, even if some of the glowing stuff is blue. Same in the center console: the larger vertical parts are white, the instruments in it might be black/glowing blue. Sorry, but it seems the Aptera is going to be: :aptera: white.

[Don]

Leather seats, I am sure, will cost more. That is not the only downside though - in cold weather an unheated seat will freeze your tush. Heated seats not a good idea either, will more rapidly draw from the batteries. Don't count on those leather seats being cool in the summer either ! Cloth fabric is a much more sensible choice.

[BrianK]

I bet you a nickel the Aptera has not seen 150 mph, unless it was in a wind tunnel or being propelled in some way that did not involve a human in the cockpit.

I sure as hell wouldn't drive that wing-shaped vehicle at 150. ;) Most cars get very, very light around that speed.

Regardless, it's great to see progress is being made. Can't wait to see real pictures of the interior.

[Dubito]

Am I missing something? In the new newsletter picture both the old and new style interiors are blue. When I rode in the 2e at TED, the interior was gray, which looks nicer than the new style. When did they go to blue?

[Apt3448]

I bet you a nickel the Aptera has not seen 150 mph, unless it was in a wind tunnel or being propelled in some way that did not involve a human in the cockpit.

I sure as hell wouldn't drive that wing-shaped vehicle at 150. ;) Most cars get very, very light around that speed.


The aptera should not have upward lift, as it is effectively an inverted wing. Not like I would like to try that, mind you. But I had recently been wondering whatever happened to Neil Hannemann, of whom we have not heard since his much touted arrival. No mention anywhere on the Aptera web-site, only in an old newsletter. Being a race car driver, he might be the one actually pushing the last bit of juice out of an Aptera, before they slap the electronic limiter on it. You really don't want to get caught driving over 90 mph...

[Airgetlam]

I just assumed that was the artist's rendering of shadow, rather than an actual color, but you may have a point. I certainly don't know.

[BrianK]

Am I missing something? In the new newsletter picture both the old and new style interiors are blue. When I rode in the 2e at TED, the interior was gray, which looks nicer than the new style. When did they go to blue?
I believe the pic in the newsletter is a drawing (or a painting, rather), so the colors are [possibly] far from reality.

[Aptera#1434]

I believe the pic in the newsletter is a drawing (or a painting, rather), so the colors are [possibly] far from reality.

I'm sure you are right, Brian.

Otherwise, Aptera would be trying to replicate the GM 1960's blue interiors found in Chevys. I once had a Camaro with that color interior and replaced it with a black interior.

[OC-LA driver]

Somewhere, perhaps in a media interview, an Aptera rep stated Apteras will be white initially, with silver, black, and red available later as production ramps up. I think the reference to Eva being body-colored is that it would match the exterior color. This is the same nomenclature automobile manufacturers use when they offer black side mirrors on the cheapest trim level but body-color mirrors on middle and higher-end trim levels.

Also on the pre-production prototype that showed a ton of black (side mirrors, inside cover of front wheel shrouds)...I personally don't expect to see those in production. Black underbelly seems more likely.

[cracknut]

meh, everything in the newsletter about more space will add weight. America is already massively overweight. That sucks. If the car reaches 2000 lbs I'm not buying it on principle.

The Aptera is supposed to be the ultimate expression of efficiency. Why dilute the concept by trying to appeal to the masses? They're not going to buy it regardless.

[KarenRei]

If the car reaches 2000 lbs I'm not buying it on principle.

It legally cannot exceed 1,700 lbs.

[evmavin]

Disappointing that they're offering leather seats (I'm sure that's a huge impact to the car's carbon footprint), but that explains another small chunk of the wide options range and is another thing I don't need to waste money on. ;)

Over 24 *more* cubic feet of cargo space? Holy *@!#(*&*. What's the goal, enough room back there to open a water park in the trunk? ;) Good to know I'll be able to transport a pair of indian elephants back there if I need to. ;)

I look forward to the final ground clearance spec. It'll affect what routes I'll be able to take on my Aptera trip. I have a feeling I'll be disappointed and get Prius-level clearance, esp. after the recent interior room increases, but oh well.

Sounds like a profit center on the leather. I liked the dark interior as it looked very high quality, the light plastic looking accents on the new center console look cheap and if they lightened up the interior to please people who are used to huge cars that is a bit sad. Too many products on the market are going to cheap looking glossy plastics. I really hope there is not a green stripe across the dash and that the vehicle does not start to look like like a cross between a japanese cell phone and an Escalade. This dash is looking like the volt from the side.

[evmavin]

I thought the weight limit was raised to over 2K?

[KarenRei]

I thought the weight limit was raised to over 2K?

Not unless it was raised twice. The only raise I heard of was the CA raise from their limit of 1,500 to the federal limit of 1,700.

[evmavin]

My concern is the vehicle looses it shape, lines, clean look and starts to get too much glossy plastic bling. The car had plenty of space inside and not being large made it nice, perhaps this was to fit more batteries, and those who roll down the windows at the drive through.

[jstdadd]

I bet you a nickel the Aptera has not seen 150 mph, unless it was in a wind tunnel or being propelled in some way that did not involve a human in the cockpit.

I sure as hell wouldn't drive that wing-shaped vehicle at 150. ;) Most cars get very, very light around that speed.

Regardless, it's great to see progress is being made. Can't wait to see real pictures of the interior.

That is hardly a wing shape, other than the rear-most 3 feet. It is aerodynamic, but there is no lift there.

[saruchan]

Personally I find this news, all of it, to be fantastic. I was quite worried about the interior size. I am 6'3'' and find that most cars do not have enough head room for me. The last time I went shopping for a car, I had to forgo about half the cars I test drove. I remember in an interview, I think the first one for Popular Mechanics they said they could accommodate people up to 6'5" ...with seat modifications (whatever that means). I was very afraid that I would wait all this time just to find that the car was too uncomfortable for me to drive. Thank you for your input aptera1213 about the interior size of a Mini. The statement on the surface that the "headroom and legroom comparable to, if not better than, the Mini" on the surface did not inspire a whole lot of confidence either...I have never actually driven a Mini...but they look so...well,...mini.
:doublethumbs:

[BrianK]

That is hardly a wing shape, other than the rear-most 3 feet. It is aerodynamic, but there is no lift there.
The first year of the Audi TT doesn't look much like a wing either, but it flew well enough to kill several people who chose to drive it over ~120mph - due largely to the fact that at that speed, its shape generated enough lift to destabilize the back end.

I admit, I base my uneducated guess about lift on the look of the profile alone (well, that and the fact that many cars are unstable at high speeds, often related to some sort of aero behavior), but the back half of the Aptera sure looks like it generates lift to me. I could be convinced that the upward sloping belly generates a bit of a vacuum - maybe enough to cancel out the pressure drop caused by the downward sloping & unspoiled roof line - any aerodynamics experts in the house?

I'll make you a wager: if it's not skipping all over the road at 130+, I'll buy you two pizzas. You can test, I'll watch. ;)

[KarenRei]

Well, I can just say that either lift or downforce create drag, so it'd certainly be an Aptera goal to eliminate them.

[jstdadd]

If it were me, and it is not likely to be me, I would design the body to be aerodynamically neutral in terms of vertical lift. It may indeed skip all over the road at 130+. I would like to know, and I intend to ask any Aptera employee that will talk to me, what top speed they have tested it to. In any case, you have to model or test a shape to determine its lift, and I have done neither, so for certain I am speculating without hard evidence.

I've studied aerodynamics of wing design, lifting bodies, sailboat sail design for lift and even hot air balloons and inflated outdoor structures. Almost anything other than a sphere develops lift, and in fact it is possible to move air or another fluid around a sphere in a certain way and achieve 'some' lift. Sailboats are even able to travel faster than the wind that propels them.

Article: http://tinyurl.com/mmorly

The most unlikely structure I studied that had appreciable lift was the short, stubby wings of the Tomahawk Cruise Missile: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/bgm-109-pics.htm , and by looking at them you would swear that two of them couldn't possibly lift the missile, but they did and they do. The wings weren't even on the same level side-to-side, they folded on top of each other in storage, so one unfolds below the centerline and the other above. (For the inquisitive among us: no ailerons, so how did it turn?)

Then there was the Advanced Cruise Missile, http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/systems/acm-pics.htm ,that I could hardly believe would fly, but then it did. The pics don't show it well, but it has reverse swept wings. You have to get it moving pretty fast, but it will fly. The goofy nose even produces appreciable lift.

And I don't need two pizzas, one will do nicely. I still am carrying around all of last year's pizza, thank you. :p

If I can get my 2e to go above 130 without worrying about leaving the road, I will be happy to demonstrate if I can find a piece of road without law enforcement. I doubt Aptera will sell me one that will let me do that without tinkering, in any case.

[speculawyer]

By what I understand, they designed the body shape to have a slight negative lift. So the more speed you get, the more downward pressure there is. It is a light vehicle as is, so at high speed, they wanted it to have a bit more bite on the road.

[popnfresh]

Like everyone else, I was looking forward to the latest Aptera newsletter, and I have to say it was a major letdown.

The new information contained in the newsletter can be boiled down to the following:

- The 2e will have 10% more cabin room (presumably they mean 10% more than the original Type 1 prototype).

- the cupholders will fit a 7-11 Big Gulp.

- the car's interior design is called "Eva".

- the seats are more comfortable, made in part from soybeans, covered in leatherette and have airbags mounted in them.

- the shift controller has been redesigned and is "jewel-like".

- they're opening an online store where you can buy t-shirts and stuff.

- Aptera is a great place to work and everyone is a team player.

Everything else in the newsletter is old information.

We've had no newsletters since last November and we're supposedly less than 5 months away from delivery of the first 2e's and this is all they can tell us? It's a joke.

Here's what I was hoping to learn in this newsletter:

- specifications

- options--yes, they did say that leather seats would be an option. Is that all?

- cost

- where to buy

- where to get it serviced

- date deliveries will begin

With so little time remaining it seems reasonable that at least some of these should have been revealed.

[BrianK]

By what I understand, they designed the body shape to have a slight negative lift. So the more speed you get, the more downward pressure there is. It is a light vehicle as is, so at high speed, they wanted it to have a bit more bite on the road.
Well, that would certainly make sense. Am I going to owe another person on this board a pizza? :)

[jstdadd]

Well, that would certainly make sense. Am I going to owe another person on this board a pizza? :)

Give him the second one I didn't want (even though I have yet to earn even one!)

[BrianK]

Give him the second one I didn't want (even though I have yet to earn even one!)
hehe. I already owe one of evmavin (I think?) you would be #2... so to speak.

speculawyer gets none. ;)

[evmavin]

hehe. I already owe one of evmavin (I think?) you would be #2... so to speak.

speculawyer gets none. ;)


Yes- I will be driving my Aptera over to claim it and the Chianti while waiting. No purple seats though:) If I win enough I can buy everyone a slice.

[jsnable]

Just noticed 6 new tweets - no news, but the signs of life are encouraging! Looking forward to checking out the online store tomorrow...

Jay

[esmith]

Wow, talk about burying the lede -- you should have quoted the Fambro interview:

Most drivers associate sports cars with driving fun, which usually means brisk acceleration, powerful braking and nimble, crisp handling. Not surprising to us, the same things that make a good sports car are generally found in a very efficient vehicle -- like the Aptera 2e.

For anybody who's taken a physics class, remember that Force = Mass x Acceleration (F = M x A). To find acceleration, divide force by mass, which means acceleration is proportional to the force needed to move the mass. More simply, acceleration is a matter of power to weight, and the Aptera 2e's power to weight ratio verges on sports car numbers, much better than most hybrid or economy cars, so it really scoots!

And acceleration isn't just about moving forward. Braking is essentially a matter of deceleration, and lateral acceleration speaks to handling. The smaller and lower the mass of the vehicle, the quicker it's slowed during braking and the more nimble it becomes when flicked side to side. So the strong, lightweight design of the Aptera composite chassis, combined with the dense battery weight sitting low in the vehicle's belly, means better braking and handling that will (and has) embarrassed a lot of other cars.

By the way, the Aptera 2e's aerodynamic shape doesn't just increase its range; it's a key to de-limiting high-speed performance. The top speeds of most performance cars are ultimately restricted by their inability to slip through the air, needing vast amounts of power to overcome the wall of air they're fighting. But the 2e doesn't fight; it slices - right through the air. And while Aptera NEVER condones unsafe driving on public roads, its low-drag-shape allows it to exceed 100 mph with only 23 HP and break 200 mph with just 150 HP. I can't confirm or deny that either of those has been done. All I can say is: this is a FUN vehicle to drive!

Which raises the question... am I unexpectedly buying a sports car? ;)

200 mph with 150 hp ... they must have done some serious improvements to aerodynamics, this implies drag that's 20-30% lower than was measured/estimated for previous prototypes.

I'm curious about this though: "power to weight ratio verges on sports car numbers, much better than most hybrid or economy cars". What is their peak horsepower now? Azure Dynamics AC24 motor generates up to 55 hp. 55 hp / 1700 lb ratio does not verge on sports car numbers (e.g. Toyota Yaris has the ratio of 106 hp / 2300 lb). To justify this claim, they need peak horsepower of ~100 hp.

[evmavin]

200 mph with 150 hp ... they must have done some serious improvements to aerodynamics, this implies drag that's 20-30% lower than was measured/estimated for previous prototypes.

I'm curious about this though: "power to weight ratio verges on sports car numbers, much better than most hybrid or economy cars". What is their peak horsepower now? Azure Dynamics AC24 motor generates up to 55 hp. 55 hp / 1700 lb ratio does not verge on sports car numbers (e.g. Toyota Yaris has the ratio of 106 hp / 2300 lb). To justify this claim, they need peak horsepower of ~100 hp.


Nor does 100/1700.

[esmith]

Nor does 100/1700.

100/1700 kinda does. Ford Mustang V6 is arguably a sports car (not a very fast one, admittedly) and it is 210/3400. Mazda Miata is 167/2500.

Combined with his other statement, this one implies that their current design is capable of going in excess of 150 mph, if you remove the limiter. (And also if it's geared for it - maybe it has a single-gear transmission and you only get a fraction of available power once you rev above 100 mph!)

Maybe they have two separate AC24 motors driving each wheel?

[evmavin]

100/1700 kinda does. Ford Mustang V6 is arguably a sports car (not a very fast one, admittedly) and it is 210/3400. Mazda Miata is 167/2500.

Combined with his other statement, this one implies that their current design is capable of going in excess of 150 mph, if you remove the limiter. (And also if it's geared for it - maybe it has a single-gear transmission and you only get a fraction of available power once you rev above 100 mph!)

Maybe they have two separate AC24 motors driving each wheel?

As long as the Aptera is a sub 7 car I will be very pleased but there is no reason it should not be and can still be efficient.

[esmith]

It can't be a sub 7 car with a single AC24 motor, either. Especially if it's a single-gear. If were geared to hit the horsepower peak around 60 mph, you'd be closer to 16.

[evmavin]

It can't be a sub 7 car with a single AC24 motor, either. Especially if it's a single-gear. If were geared to hit the horsepower peak around 60 mph, you'd be closer to 16.


Why are people stuck on the AC24 when every spec says it is not, torque, nominal pack voltage, etc, etc. That is unless Aptera has been misleading about their specs. In addition having a single gear has nothing to do with it not being a sub second vehicle. I have owned, built and driven several EV's that are far below that number with single gear drives that will go over 90MPH with AC motors in the same size range as the AC24 and with a much higher curb weight. If Aptera wanted to they could have a sub 7 car that will still have the quoted range provided you don't have your foot to the floor all the time.

If they used the ACP system the Aptera would most likely be one of fastest production EVs available and I could see one being modified by someone with the cash. I don't think you could even get the traction needed with a limited slip to fully utilize the power available, if so it would walk over a Tesla not to mention charge incredibly fast.

[evmavin]

100/1700 kinda does. Ford Mustang V6 is arguably a sports car (not a very fast one, admittedly) and it is 210/3400. Mazda Miata is 167/2500.

Combined with his other statement, this one implies that their current design is capable of going in excess of 150 mph, if you remove the limiter. (And also if it's geared for it - maybe it has a single-gear transmission and you only get a fraction of available power once you rev above 100 mph!)

Maybe they have two separate AC24 motors driving each wheel? (never going to happen as it makes no sense to to this)

[jhm614]

200 mph with 150 hp ... they must have done some serious improvements to aerodynamics, this implies drag that's 20-30% lower than was measured/estimated for previous prototypes.

I'm curious about this though: "power to weight ratio verges on sports car numbers, much better than most hybrid or economy cars". What is their peak horsepower now? Azure Dynamics AC24 motor generates up to 55 hp. 55 hp / 1700 lb ratio does not verge on sports car numbers (e.g. Toyota Yaris has the ratio of 106 hp / 2300 lb). To justify this claim, they need peak horsepower of ~100 hp.

The new Ferrari 458 hits 202 mph with 562 hp and it's power to weight is 562 / 3042. It only gets 17 mpg though but it does come in colors other than white :)

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/07/28/officially-official-ferrari-announces-the-458-italia/

[KarenRei]

(never going to happen as it makes no sense to to this)

Agreed .

[OC-LA driver]

Going back to the perception that the interior was dark and imposing, I wonder to what extent the A-pillar (between windshield and door) is blocking the view and contributes to a sense of being closed-in.

Our Honda Odyssey minivan has fat A-pillars thanks to airbags, and with its slight backwards lean, it sometimes conceals pedestrians or turn indicators that one would think should be large enough to show around the pillar...but don't.

The Aptera seems to have a similar width pillar, but with its severe slant to the rear, and its apparent slant towards the center of the vehicle (hitting the roof just outside the occupant's shoulder I believe), I wonder if it's "in your face" and also pretty wide in horizontal cross-section.

Does anyone who had a test sit, or especially a test ride, have a recollection or comment?

Also how many of those who found it "dark and imposing" are currently driving compacts or subcompacts? Or does it just seem closed-in if you're used to a mid-sized car, full-sized car, or SUV?

[Dubito]

Going back to the perception that the interior was dark and imposing, I wonder to what extent the A-pillar (between windshield and door) is blocking the view and contributes to a sense of being closed-in.

Our Honda Odyssey minivan has fat A-pillars thanks to airbags, and with its slight backwards lean, it sometimes conceals pedestrians or turn indicators that one would think should be large enough to show around the pillar...but don't.

The Aptera seems to have a similar width pillar, but with its severe slant to the rear, and its apparent slant towards the center of the vehicle (hitting the roof just outside the occupant's shoulder I believe), I wonder if it's "in your face" and also pretty wide in horizontal cross-section.

Does anyone who had a test sit, or especially a test ride, have a recollection or comment?

Also how many of those who found it "dark and imposing" are currently driving compacts or subcompacts? Or does it just seem closed-in if you're used to a mid-sized car, full-sized car, or SUV?

When I rode in the prototype Aptera at TED in February. I didn't find the interior either dark or imposing. I thought it nicely trimmed with good visibility. The A-pillar is not thin, but it wasn't bothersome the way I feel about the new VW Bug. As for dark, the interior is not as dark as my black on black bimmer, seemed airy and clean to me.