VW will bring a "side by side" one liter car to the IAA in Germany

[Matthijs]

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.heise.de%2Fautos%2FVW-zeigt-Einliterauto-auf-der-IAA--%2Fartikel%2Fs%2F8358&sl=auto&tl=en&history_state0=

Then it will cost a fortune if you read what kind of materials they are planning to use:

These are aluminum and magnesium for the frame is used, the hubs are made of titanium, even the wheel bearings are ceramic balls manufactured. In contrast to many eco-Bastel cars, "writes the newspaper continued, the VW all the necessary requirements for crash safety requirements and with airbags, ABS and ESP wait.

[NeilBlanchard]

Hi,

So, they are going "head to head" with the Aptera? The main reason that the Aptera is designed the way it is: it was inspired by the VW 1L car -- the same goal of ultimate efficiency, but with side by side seats!

I would say that the other BIG difference between the current VW 1L car and the Aptera is the ease of entry. The canopy on the VW 1L is okay for agile people on sunny days, but it becomes tougher to deal with for some people any time, and for everyone in inclement weather.

This is similarly an issue for the Loremo, too. I think that using 2 or 3 door latches, that lets the door frame help stiffen/strengthen the chassis -- and allows the doors facilitate conventional entry and exit AND have a safe, crash worthy vehicle, is something that manufacturers should start doing.

[KarenRei]

Yeah, I'd never buy a canopy door vehicle. There are so many problems with them. Another one, for example: flip the car, and good luck getting out.

I think we're going to see a lot of my early criticisms of the 1L car in conversation with n_dawg come to pass. As they move from a concept to a production vehicle, and from hypermiling to normal driving, its performance is going to drop dramatically. And at the same time, it's going to be very expensive (barring whatever subsidy VW provides).

In terms of the performance drop, the fact that they're going from tandem to side-to-side will be an even bigger hit than I was expecting. At the time, I was just thinking of the things they'd have to do to up safety and comfort to be able to make into a mass-market vehicle.

That said, I wish them all the best. They'll still have an impressive vehicle on their hands when all is said and done. Just not one I'm likely to be interested in.

[Stroke]

That was actually a pretty good test run, 237 KM, about 150 mies with something over 60 mpg, years ago the Germans made a messishmit was very closely resembled this new product. The messishmit was a two cycle and the gasoline was already premixed in the gas pump. It probably got equivalent mileage. We havn't made much progress. Hopefully Aptera will do better.:love0030:

[evmavin]

That was actually a pretty good test run, 237 KM, about 150 mies with something over 60 mpg, years ago the Germans made a messishmit was very closely resembled this new product. The messishmit was a two cycle and the gasoline was already premixed in the gas pump. It probably got equivalent mileage. We havn't made much progress. Hopefully Aptera will do better.:love0030:


I know someone who has several of these..

[Holz]

Yeah, I'd never buy a canopy door vehicle. There are so many problems with them. Another one, for example: flip the car, and good luck getting out.

I suppose Aptera does not have a true canopy door, but still it might be a challenge getting out in a roll-over. No?

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2480/3836573548_2cb622d1d7_o.jpg

[NeilBlanchard]

Hi,

I think the Scarab doors on the Aptera would be relatively easy to deal with in a rollover -- gravity will open it if you get it unlatched. The canopy on the VW 1L would be pressed closed because the weight of the vehicle is resting on it.

[3WELECTRIC]

Might be a challenge getting out in a roll-over. No? Think a little, When there is a fire at your front door you go out hrough a window. The scarab style door is blocked, go out through the back, and shame on you for rolling your Aptera.

[KarenRei]

Yeah, I see nothing to block the doors on a flipped Aptera unless it's on its side (in which case, use the other door, or the back hatch).

[jstdadd]

My daughter put my 2-door '95 Eagle Talon (essentially the same as the Eclipse) into a drainage swale about 10' deep. The ditch had a concrete drain liner in the bottom, about 18" wide and 6" deep. The passenger door could not be opened because two wheels were in the concrete drain and its door was against the swale; the driver's door could not be opened because it was too far uphill, i.e., you couldn't push it open at 45deg angle. One of the kids inside went out a window (thank goodness the power windows operated) and pulled the door open for the other 3 to get out.

So...you don't have to flip over completely to not be able to get out of a car - get it 45deg or so, and you might not be able to get the doors open.

[Stroke]

That was actually a pretty good test run, 237 KM, about 150 mies with something over 60 mpg, years ago the Germans made a messishmit was very closely resembled this new product. The messishmit was a two cycle and the gasoline was already premixed in the gas pump. It probably got equivalent mileage. We havn't made much progress. Hopefully Aptera will do better.:love0030:
Can be found on youtube The Tiger could do 90MPH and mileage was 100 to 125 MPG. NO hybrids then! I wonder if the Aptera team has studied this car.

[Matthijs]

Ok here it is! Well the rumours were pretty off. It's not side by side. Autobloggreen (http://green.autoblog.com/2009/09/13/frankfurt-preview-volkswagen-1-liter-concept-158-mpg-u-s-ta/) reports.

http://www.autoweek.nl/images/800/3/6d894e821eb30fa22062d81aa1b21183.jpghttp://www.autoweek.nl/images/800/e/f6d5c9e85a2264b250f71181c0b7abfe.jpghttp://www.autoweek.nl/images/800/3/0b5f3dd089dc1089d252de0344ea4a33.jpghttp://www.autoweek.nl/images/800/6/9e4f047fb66a0569895817893496a0d6.jpg

C02 emissions of 39 grams per kilometre. 3,80 meters long. Less then 1102 lbs. 50 liters of trunk space. No rearview mirrors but camera's. But it is still a study. More details on the IAA on September 17 2009 press days.

[KarenRei]

158 mpg, and it's still not US06/FTP cycle. This is at best NEDC, so it's at best ~120mpg diesel. Which equates to CO2 emissions of about 105mpg gasoline (which matches up with the reported CO2 emissions). Tandem two seater, tiny trunk (50l = under 2 cubic feet), only 38hp, and still made of expensive carbon fiber. And still just a concept, meaning its stats could drop further -- if they ever actually take it to production.

Sad to see my predictions about it were spot-on. I wish them luck, and the more the merrier, but it's no Aptera.

[futura]

I kinda like this as a concept. I think VW knows this shape is something car buyers are going to have to get used to if efficiency ever becomes important.
The canopy type in/out is lame.
Plus, if they're not going to make it side-by-side I'd rather have a Carver or Persu or whatever they're calling it now. In August, I saw a Carver in Eindhoven, NL, cornering through an intersection and it looked really fun.

[jhm614]

I wish VW had commercialized that GX3 concept trike : http://www.automobilemag.com/auto_shows/2006_detroit/0601_2006_volkswagen_gx3/index.html It looked like a hoot.

[NeilBlanchard]

Hi,

More details are out on the VW:

Volkswagen's 170 mpg car | Frankfurt Auto Show 2009 - CNET Reviews (http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13745_7-10353004-10310244.html)


http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/i/bto/20090915/VW_L1_01_610x457.JPG

In 2002, Volkswagen designed a concept car that could go 100 kilometers on 1 liter of fuel, equivalent to about 235 mpg. This year, Volkswagen shows off the second generation of the 1 liter concept, the L1, with the intention of production by 2013. Using an extremely light and aerodynamic body and a diesel-electric parallel hybrid power train, the new L1 falls short of its fuel efficiency goal, requiring 1.38 liters of diesel to cover 100 kilometers, or 170 mpg. Still, not bad.

http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/i/bto/20090915/VW_L1_03_270x202.JPG
The L1's cabin uses virtual rearview mirrors and instruments.
(Credit: CNET)

Volkswagen designers looked at glider design to evolve the L1 concept, resulting in a narrow body with two seats in tandem, the single passenger consigned to a rear seat. Access to the L1 is through a hinged canopy, which should inspire Top Gun fantasies for the driver. Furthering those fantasies are the camera-based rearview OLEDs, offering a 180 degree view behind the car. In keeping with the high-tech cabin, the speedometer and other instruments are all virtual. Although we didn't see a stereo in the cabin, there are volume controls on the steering wheel.

However much the cabin might inspire feelings of piloting a fighter jet, the performance will make the driver envy scooter riders. The L1 takes 14.3 seconds to get to 62 mph. However, the top speed is a reasonable 99 mph. To power the L1, Volkswagen developed a new .8-liter version of its TDI engine with only two cylinders. The driver can select between Eco and Sport modes: in the former, the engine produces 27 horsepower, while in Sport it peaks at 39 horsepower. Being a diesel, its torque is much higher, hitting 74 pound-feet at 1,900rpm.

Where Volkswagen gets really clever is incorporating a hybrid system into its seven-speed Direct Shift Gearbox (DSG). The DSG transmission uses two computer-controlled clutches to provide automated shifting with manual transmission performance. A 13 horsepower electric motor situated between propeller shaft and transmission supplies additional power to the car. The motor is powered by electricity from a lithium ion battery pack in the front of the car. As a hybrid, it has a start-stop system, shutting down the engine when stopped in traffic. With its 10 liter fuel tank, Volkswagen estimates a range of 416 miles.

[SEGsby]

Kinda sad to see VW once again, backing off of introducing a 3-wheeled vehicle. The GX3 was soooo close to production, too. Oh well. For those that didn't know, the original 1L was a very graceful looking trike:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:1-Liter-VW_%28525150348%29.jpg

It is interesting VW kept the narrow cross section with the 4-wheeled version, but I actually prefer the original design. The more rounded jet-fighter styling, and superior efficiency you automatically get from less wheels, make far more sense for the type of restrictive passenger seating and limited cargo space imposed on it's users. The vehicle would have been cheaper as a 3 wheeler, too.

I guess Lawyers are still more powerful than the Recession, the Laws of Physics, or Common Sense.

[KarenRei]

It wasn't a three wheeler. The two rear wheels were close together.

[palmer_md]

It wasn't a three wheeler. The two rear wheels were close together.

I think he was referring to this....
http://www.vwvortex.com/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi?archive=8&num=1647

[KarenRei]

I think he was referring to this....
http://www.vwvortex.com/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi?archive=8&num=1647

No, he wrote, "For those that didn't know, the original 1L was a very graceful looking trike". It wasn't a trike. It just looked that way.

[SEGsby]

I stand corrected, the 1L's got a compressed track in back, and is not a trike. Its more like the old Honda Insight. My apologies. VW's done a number of 3 Wheeled prototypes, and I confused them. The GX3 is one. Anyone remember this prototype, the VW "Scooter", from 1989?

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/julian.higgs/images/fleftf.jpg
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/julian.higgs/scooter.html

But this illustration I found, looks way better to me than the overly angular 2nd prototype: http://www.tw34k.com/images/rmcb5/vw1l_4.jpg
I wonder why they overly crisped all the edges in the latest 1L version? I like the sleekness of this one (even with the side-view mirrors), but one would think there would be more drag generated from all the flat edges in their current prototype?

[SEGsby]

Grr, that's weird. The image link is gone.. Here's a smaller version of the curvy L1 styling... Sorry for the small size. :(

http://images.thecarconnection.com/sml/preview-vw8217s-235mpg-project_100219352_s.jpg

I like this one better.

[Matthijs]

Yeah that one looks nice. But from what I remember that only is an artist impression based on rumours from a while back and not a design by VW.

[byplug]

Aptera has it right. Side by side seating is the way to go.
I think the VW should be electric, wider, with conventional doors and windows, maybe like this:
http://byplug.com/vw_wider.jpg

[KarenRei]

Well, there's something to be said for tandem, in that it means a lower cross section, which can be a big boon for aerodynamic drag. But in addition to not having your passengers next to each other, there's a whole slew of other disadvantages -- less stability, way less trunk space, more climate control challenges, etc. And tandem seating, for some reason, usually seems to get paired with canopy doors, which I'm not fond of (they tend weaken the roof, they trap you if you flip, they let rain get in your vehicle, etc). So it really depends on what you're looking for.

Honestly, I think the L1 has way too little trunk space to be practical unless you generally only drive solo. I mean, 1.7 cubic feet of trunk space can hold, what, two bags of groceries? You'd have to use the rear seat for storage. And that rear seat doesn't look all too big itself.

[magnru]

Claims 170mpg. Worlds most fuel efficient car? http://www.carpictures.com/vehicle/09IDI362100497.html