Make A stand and back-up Steve, Chris, Tim and Co

[Matthijs]

They already know that all of us would much rather get the vehicle now than in 2011. I see a lot of anger and indignation, but I don't see many people actually making a stand and saying "I won't buy your vehicle unless Fambro is onboard" / "I'm pulling my reservation". And that's what matters for the board.

Reading this quote I agree we must do something to let Steve and Co see that we back them up. No discussion just make a stand now! If we make ourselves heard maybe we can turn this around.

[aptera1213]

I would gladly put down a deposit with steve and Chris for a model like at the x prize

[Sapphire Dragon]

I stand for both the company and the car- what it started as. That said, it's compulsory that I stand for Steve & co.

[scottsim]

Would love to see the vision and the passion of Steve and Chris be reflected in a production EV, with or without the name, Aptera.

[DanD]

Reading this quote I agree we must do something to let Steve and Co see that we back them up. No discussion just make a stand now! If we make ourselves heard maybe we can turn this around.
It's too late. This decision had to be backed by a board of directors. Taking a stand is pointless. The only thing these people will understand is short term (~1-2 years) profit.

When you and I can own shares of this company, then pass legally binding shareholder resolutions, then we'll be able to take a stand. Until then, all we can do is vote with our dollars (by not spending them here, etc).

[Matthijs]

Well I know you are right, but if we can reach most of the 4000 (if there are still that many) depositors and create some public pressure by saying we will not buy from Aptera in it's current state maybe they will wake up. No sales no company. But I know it's leaning to unrealistic. I hope everything about this will be known to the public.

[esmith]

I have two suggestions.

One is to wait till the official company position is clear. Hopefully they'll issue a press release or something in the next couple of days.

The other, if things look bad, to create a statement that people can put into their emails when they cancel. There is a thread with a title "Your reservation could be worth more then you think"... and that really depends a lot on the reservation number. For example, my own reservation #h2691 is practically worthless. There were at most 100 new reservations after it. I screwed up by flip-flopping h->e->h and that's why my number is so high, but, even my original #h1400 something would've been almost worthless at this time. If things go as planned by Wilbur cabal, neither #h1400 nor #h2600 will see their vehicles for three more years. I have no problem cancelling just to send them a message if there's a chance that it will make a difference.

[DanD]

In an ideal world, the real customers of Aptera, the very ones that gave the startup credibility and made possible other forms of financing with their deposits, would have had a say in what direction to take - delay and re-design the Aptera ad nauseum to better accommodate the inane such as fast food windows and big-gulp cups, or accept the trade offs of a highly efficient vehicle like having to get out to eat or pick up a prescription. I know how I would have voted.

Instead, we had a marketing type conjure up a survey, then use it to justify an executive decision. If you seek an excuse to delay, change things, make it your own, leave your mark, whatever - a survey can be crafted to show exactly what you want. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

Paul Wilbur has made a decision very much like Rick Wagoner. They've both pissed in their customer's Corn Flakes. I was hoping to have a serving of Steve's Dream, not what Wilbur is dishing out.

[KarenRei]

I have two suggestions.

One is to wait till the official company position is clear. Hopefully they'll issue a press release or something in the next couple of days.

And hopefully the ousted members will be able to speak by then. I agree; I'd hold off until all info is out and any actions can be coordinated.

[Matthijs]

But what are we going to learn from a press release? Marques is probably spinning as good as he can to do some damage control. Just like Karen said, hopefully the ousted members will be able to speak up and tell us what really happened.

But I agree to hold off. I just hope we can coordinate something.

[LTLFTcomposite]

Maybe you guys should all form an "Owner's Group". Have a convention, maybe in San Diego. Seminars, break-out sessions, the works. Book it at a hotel; with the travel industry so depressed you could probably get a bargain. Invite Aptera, but if the don't accept don't let that stop you. If they won't come (and bring a car) make one out of cardboard. Invite some policy makers. Maybe Al Gore. But most importantly invite the media. A couple thousand loyal owners showing up to a convention for a product that doesn't even exist would be newsworthy.

If nothing else it might be a fun party.

[Sapphire Dragon]

That seems like a nice idea, however, not everyone will be able to jump on a plane and speed over to CA for a demonstration. If all the thousands of Aptera fans were active on and/or checked this forum, then we wouldn't have a problem. But since most people aren't on here, and only a few are, getting the word out would be tough. Not to mention, even if we do get the word out, a lot of people may not go (that includes me, only because there's no way I could actually make it). Besides, as it's been said before, I think it's best to wait for an official update before taking any drastic action. I'll gladly voice my support for Steve here, that's nothing drastic. But hopping on the first flight out to CA isn't exactly the thing to be planning at the moment.

[mweston]

I sure hope the people making the sequel to Who Killed the Electric Car? haven't wrapped filming yet, because it would be great for the world to see how badly this went down.

[gistmarrs]

I think Steve and friends should open a shop right next to Aptera and start work on producing a car that will be available next year. Hopefully, all of the early tem members would jump ship and join him in his effort.

[sck_nogas]

Having been a founder of a company, and having the Board of Director's oust one of the other founders is something I've been through. There is a lot of emotion and distrust going on right now.

We don't know (since we haven't heard directly from the people involved) what happened. We don't know the current financial status of the company. We don't know the direction of the company as it stood before this. We don't know what was said or what ultimatums we voiced. We just don't know enough.

If Aptera (the company) develops and delivers a viable EV/Hybrid, then I will likely keep my reservation and purchase. If Aptera folds, then I get my reservation back. If Chris & Steve start another company to make another almost Aptera car, then the likelihood of a lawsuit against them from Aptera is high, considering that they would have a standard non-compete and intellectual property agreement with Aptera.

So, I'm waiting and will see what is said in the next few weeks about this, will the company be forthcoming, or close lipped. Will Steve and Chris do a tell all interview and reveal what their version of what was said in the meetings? Etc...

Remember what happened with Telsa... Martin was ousted, Elon kept control, words were said, but the cars came out. Was a transmission a good idea? Should Tesla have shipped a car with a high over-hang? We will never know, but we do know that they have shipped and are still shipping EVs today.

Scott

[esmith]

the likelihood of a lawsuit against them from Aptera is high, considering that they would have a standard non-compete and intellectual property agreement with Aptera.

Just the intellectual property. Non-compete agreements are invalid in California, except in some narrowly defined cases.

[10.5]

No discussion just make a stand now! If we make ourselves heard maybe we can turn this around.


Internet petition?
www.petitiononline.com

[KarenRei]

I doubt an internet petition has ever accomplished anything.

[Louv]

I think perhaps you've all been watching the Microsoft "I had an obvious idea, and then 2 days later Microsoft shipped it" Commercials a little too much.

Aptera doesn't make hiring and firing decisions based on the postings on ApteraForum.

If they do, then I want my deposit back.

[painfully hopeful]

I have 2 reservations- I would be happy to pledge to cancel 1 or both if we don't get some answers and responses to our wishes by a given date- and preferably less than a week away. If the folks I saw at the SD rollout (exception- founders, finance person, and head mfg guy) have taken over, the company is toast anyway- this may be the last chance to intervene and try to save them and also get what we want. If we get a hundred or more folks together, we can make it newsworthy. I'm just so tired of these corporate types messing with good things until they are screwed up- we have to show some muscle sometime...

[Rat]

Canceling reservations won't have any effect. The reduction in the size of the escrow account might be a slight disadvantage in raising private capital, but they can't use it for operations since it's in escrow, and it won't have any effect on whether they get the government loan, which is what they need. They aren't able to raise more private capital anyway, so it's not a factor in their thinking.

[KarenRei]

Reservations are what get held up to potential investors to say, "look at the interest in our product"

[aptera1213]

yes, but rat is saying that aptera can't get any more private funds anyway...

though i'm not sure that makes me feel more confident ;)


them getting steve back would make me feel a bit better...which it looks like they might have...january will tell more...

them getting the govt loan will make me feel better, but it will be many months till that money comes in (tesla and fisker haven't seen theirs even though the loans were approved months ago)...

them getting myaptera up and running will make me feel better...

them getting a car in a customers hands will make me feel better...



heck, they could sell me that x-prize car today if they wanted...i'll even make a trip to the x-prize site and drive it off the lot :)



edit....them getting rid of their marketing people would make me feel better...that would save lots of money and they seem to be useless at best...

heck, hire a college senior for 11 bucks an hour...he can work the website and email and such and probably get college credit for intern work...and aptera would have much better communication than currently...

[KarenRei]

yes, but rat is saying that aptera can't get any more private funds anyway...

though i'm not sure that makes me feel more confident ;)

The DOE certainly will care about it too. And "no more private funds" would be a disaster. The DOE doesn't just throw money out the window; the process takes time.

edit....them getting rid of their marketing people would make me feel better...that would save lots of money and they seem to be useless at best...

Heck, is there *anyone* here who thinks Aptera's marketing operation has been handled well?

[lapwing]

Reading this quote I agree we must do something to let Steve and Co see that we back them up. No discussion just make a stand now! If we make ourselves heard maybe we can turn this around.

I think that we need to work on a support strategy!

I'm asking myself - What are our options to influence the outcome we want in a productive way - "We want an Aptera in our driveways"?

Perhaps if we define the key players, that might help us see a way forward. Lets call these key players Tier one.

Who has the legal "ownership of Aptera Motors Inc."
Who are the directors?
Whose money is at stake - the investors?
Who has the vision, and product leadership?
Who has the technical and engineering skills?

I think these individuals are worth influencing. E-mail, phone calls, personal one on ones.

Tier two, the people steering the company on a day to day basis, currently lacking vision, who blew through the seed money entrusted to them. Now suffering limited credibility, they mismanaged, missinformed marketed and lied or failed to communicate and generally failed to deliver an Aptera to your driveway.

These individuals need to get routed. :character0012:

What do you think?

You can tell I'm bummed can't you? Okay, I'll go and sit in the corner.:sick0010:

[KarenRei]

http://www.aptera.com/team.php

Board of Directors

* Bob Kavner, Chairman
Former chairman CitySearch, Ironport, Overture and Earthlink, in addition to being the former CEO of AT&Ts Multimedia Products & CFO- AT&T corporate
* Bill Gross, Board Member - Idealab founder
* Doug McPherson, Board Member - Idealab General Counsel
* Michael Johnson, Board Member - Esenjay Petroleum, Owner

Board of Advisors

* Don Beall - ex Chairman, Rockwell
* Steve McGowan, ex CFO, Sun Microsystems
* Skip Armstrong - ex Navy Admiral & Naval Aviator
* Bill Warner - ex VP-Sales, Silicon Graphics and other startups

Major Investors:

* Idealab
* Google.org
* Esenjay Investments
* The Simons Family
* Beall Family Trust

I'm not going to get involved unless January happens without action. If that happens, I'll help lead a riot. ;) Until then, I'll sit tight.

[aptera1213]

are steve and chris on the board??

"Steve remains a member of the board so he'll never really be ‘gone'," McCammon says. "But he has agreed to allow himself to be one of the reductions for the short term. And then he'll come back in the new year once we get the series ‘D' final round of funding closed and we can turn advanced concepts back on."


And then he'll come back in the new year once we get the series ‘D' final round of funding closed and we can turn advanced concepts back on.


not sure i like that part...that isn't coming back in january...that is coming back in summer...and that could easily also mean "not coming back at all."

[KarenRei]

are steve and chris on the board??

I'm just quoting the website. Of course, we know how often *that* gets updated...

[Don]

Been away for a while and really not up to speed here, but, with all the talk going on about the status of Aptera, I am wondering how secure are all the deposits which have thusfar been rendered. Was it not Steve Fambro who made the promise to refung any or all ? Now that Steve and company are apparently no longer on the scene, does the promise still hold good? Looks to me as if a concerted effort has been made to see that this fledgling company doesn't have a chance to even set foot on a highway anywhere. What will the next move be? Bankruptcy? Seems to me that all the deposit investors stand a good chance to never see any of their bucks again in that event. Is it already too late to even retrieve what earnest customers have invested? In my opinion, this whole fiasco has a very unpleasant stench.

[Ardie3301]

I really don't think that a handful of deposit-holders will make any difference. Maybe if we banded together to number upwards of 500 or more, than maybe.

You see, the 2e's design has *already* been changed. They moved forward with the design that has front wheel drive, roll-down windows, a couple of cup holders, no more Streetdeck, and a 25% larger battery pack.

To go *backward* to an earlier design would take even longer. Sure, they have that design lying about in a computer archive somewhere, but the suppliers have been feverishly working on the "new" 2e.

- - -

I see the layoffs / Draconian Purge as a sign that they are running out of money. "What happened to that $24 million they had?" They may have never had it all at once - just ongoing infusions from Google / Essenjay / etc., and they changed their minds and shut off the tap.

What did they see that made them turn off the money? They aren't talking, but my guess is that they saw all the changes that were done to the 2e, and their costs. Its quite possible that it will take a HUGE price tag increase in the 2e to get them to the Return on Investment ratio they saw in the PowerPoint presentations a year ago. So, with the vehicle's price tag previously "$25,000 - 40,000," its probably more like "$39,999, plus options," which is goiing to go over like a lead balloon to those who are watching Aptera so closely.

That, and the fact that its gonna hit the showrooms at the same time as the other big automakers debut their own electric car. And they know that one of the big advantages of the 2e was their price differential over, say, the Chevy Volt. At $40K, its gone. And customers will get a Volt through the eBay dealer network before buying an Aptera.

So they pulled the plug (not so yuk, yuk). At that point, the board had some very difficult choices to make to keep the dream alive, and their only choice was to do some ruthless chopping. They will now have to go into hibernation/coma until the Federal Treasury throws a ton of money at Aptera to pick up where they left off and (hopefully) start building -something-.

-- Ardie
Its gonna be a loooong wait, I think ...

[popnfresh]

I think a lot of people have already had their deposits refunded. By itself, this won't have a huge financial impact on Aptera, seeing as money market interest rates are abysmal anyway. But it does send them a clear message that their supporters and potential customers have lost patience. I'm positive that causes them major concern. It has to.

For myself, I sent Aptera an email 2 weeks ago requesting a refund of my $500 deposit. Last week they replied, saying that the check would arrive in 7-10 days. Had the deposit been on a 2e, I think I might have held out a little longer. But I was waiting for the 2h hybrid, and in my opinion the likelihood of Aptera ever delivering a 2h is almost zero. $500 is not a tremendous amount of money. On the other hand, I saw no reason to let them keep sitting on it.

[Belseth]

I've been dying to get my hands on an Aptera but after reading about what happened I'll say without question you couldn't give me one. I'm sick to death of creators being thrown off their own projects over greed. I had the same sort of thing happen to me last summer after working night and day for 4 years so I wouldn't be caught dead in one. I hope they start a new car company because I'd like to buy one of their products but Aptera is dead to me. Paul Wilbur is just counting on bilking money out of the government to line his pockets and has no real interest in the car. Hiring him was the death of the company and a dream. It reeks of what happened to Tucker when the Detroit guys showed up. I hope people form an official boycott of the company. I'm planning to write my Congressman and ask that the money be denied. The car is worthy of the money but the company no longer is worthy. I'd recommend to everyone to write to their Congressmen and insist the money be withheld until Steve Fambro and Chris Anthony are re-instated! At present it's a bad investment for the nation and encourages defrauding the government for personal gain.