Asking for customer feedback was silly for the Aptera

[Belseth]

I know it's normal business 101 but get serious. If you asked the average person what they wanted they'd say an SUV. That isn't what Aptera fans are after. At first glance I saw most of what the responders pointed out and none of it bothered me enough to not buy an Aptera. I only turned against the company when Steve Fambro and Chris Anthony were thrown out. They should have built the car they were planning to build the one everyone wanted with the original team and released it as planned. Basically they bet the farm on a government bailout. If they really wanted to make a car for everyone they should have started from scratch because the Aptera would never be that car. It's not for everyone maybe one in a hundred would fall in love with it as is. That's still a couple of million cars without going foreign. Bring back Steve Fambro and Chris Anthony and build the car you claimed you were building not some frankencar to try to coax soccermoms out of their SUVs. I love the car because it's different and a stunning design. It breaks my heart I'll never own one but I have zero interest in the current company. Write your Congressman and demand financing be withheld until the founders are restored and they build the car they promised. That's the only way you'll see the car you want on the road.

[KarenRei]

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[UltraRon]

I have rarely spoken, but I have read plenty.

Do you really think a car the roll-down windows is such a bad thing? Yes, they're late, but mostly, a startup company needs LOTS of money. To my knowledge, they had $43 million total. That just isn't enough - plain and simple. If and when they get more dollars, the car currently designed will be delivered and you'll thank them for all of the changes.

Just my 2 cents.

Ron

[aptera1213]

I never minded the idea of roll down windows. In fact I supported it IF it didn't change the look too much. I don't mind the latest renders, but I much prefer the pp6. And I have always said aptera needs to be out first and be affordable...and even if they are first and affordable they are and will be a niche car.

So if roll down windows cost you 2 years, then yes roll down windows are bad.

2 years is make or break for the aptera

I hope it didn't break them.

So yes hindsite is 20/20...but if the could have released the pp6 this year and a roll down model next year, the win...
if they release nothing this year (already decided) and nothing till late next year...well it might not be a death blow, but it will be that much tougher...

And if the focus group a few more changes and it pushes to 2011...bye bye

the way I see it, the pp6 can sell a couple of thousand a year
the roll down can sell 3 or 4...

But neither model is going to get beyond those numbers

so know your market, not your desires

[Cwn.Annwn]

ron, it's a lie that aptera wasn't working on roll-down windows when paul came in or that they weren't working on a narrower track or wider doors. that was all to be out there by the 2008 typ1 release. the new team came in and had to put their own touch on every part of the vehicle such as redesigning the doors for full roll down instead of split which is a lot weaker, because they thought people wouldnt be able to reach their fast food as easy. everything slowed way down and was put far behind

[chijayhawker]

Customer feedback on a concept car? Does that make sense? NOPE. Not at all. This was suppsed to EVENTUALLY become a mass-market vehicle, but at first it was targeted towards a specific market. And now the Detriot Idiots (you know who they are) have screwed-the-pooch on trying to make a concept car into a mass-market vehicle, and are disenfranchising the original target market.

[Sapphire Dragon]

Write your Congressman and demand financing be withheld until the founders are restored and they build the car they promised. That's the only way you'll see the car you want on the road.
Sounds like a good plan. Now all we would need is the numbers to do it...

Do you really think a car the roll-down windows is such a bad thing? Yes, they're late, but mostly, a startup company needs LOTS of money. To my knowledge, they had $43 million total. That just isn't enough - plain and simple. If and when they get more dollars, the car currently designed will be delivered and you'll thank them for all of the changes.
Yes, actually- they are a bad thing. The addition of roll down windows would force them to remove the reinforcing foam out of the sides- one of the things that made the Aptera very, very safe to drive in.

[futura]

I have rarely spoken, but I have read plenty.
Do you really think a car the roll-down windows is such a bad thing? Yes, they're late, but mostly, a startup company needs LOTS of money.

The thing I find most disturbing is Fambro's absence. Look what a cluster*** his vision turned into when he was close by to defend it. The PP6 was an efficiency manifesto wrapped in a safety shell. It was never a car for the masses IMHO but an important marker for low energy transport (and beautiful to me).
If PW and friends are from design by focus-group class, and don't have Fambro, Anthony et al (those with the 'vision thing') to corral them what's next?
Do they get DOE funding and look at the $75-$100M as seed money for the 4-wheel version; the one really for the 'masses'. The one that will have their own precious imprint on it?
More than roll-down windows, this is what concerns me. I see no reason for Fambro to be out of the loop for the months leading up to production. Without him I'm afraid the PP6 will be PW'd into the Coda or Ford Focus EV.

[virtualeric]

Bring back Steve Fambro and Chris Anthony and build the car you claimed you were building not some frankencar to try to coax soccermoms out of their SUVs.

Now THAT is the most prosaic argument I've heard.

Sometimes I can't help but feel they listened to the wal-mart crowd when it came to customer feedback. After all, the blog photo shows a guy trying to get in like someone from wal-mart would--even after they were told how to get in. Wal-mart is a metaphor for the demographic that isn't going to buy a futuristic car...I shop at wal-mart.

Let me be clear...overweight, fast-food-snarfing, slurpy guzzling humans and people who can barely get in and out of a normal are NOT the ones you want to listen to when you're building the most efficient car on the planet.

Precise demographics should be attached to that customer data they recieved -- where is that?

[AlfredWAB]

ron, it's a lie that aptera wasn't working on roll-down windows when paul came in or that they weren't working on a narrower track or wider doors. that was all to be out there by the 2008 typ1 release. the new team came in and had to put their own touch on every part of the vehicle such as redesigning the doors for full roll down instead of split which is a lot weaker, because they thought people wouldnt be able to reach their fast food as easy. everything slowed way down and was put far behind

I liked the car before the roll-down windows. Was never an issue with me.
At this point I'm looking at the FVT E-Varo. They are working with a lot less money. Since I'm going to have to wait until at least June, may as well wait a little longer and see what happens with the X-Prize Competition. I think Aptera missed it's window of opportunity.

[esmith]

It is never a bad idea to ask for customer feedback. The focus group just has to be picked correctly. Even if they are not shooting for Camry-like market acceptance, there's a difference between selling 500 cars and selling 10,000 cars.

[esmith]

ron, it's a lie that aptera wasn't working on roll-down windows when paul came in or that they weren't working on a narrower track or wider doors. that was all to be out there by the 2008 typ1 release. the new team came in and had to put their own touch on every part of the vehicle such as redesigning the doors for full roll down instead of split which is a lot weaker, because they thought people wouldnt be able to reach their fast food as easy. everything slowed way down and was put far behind

Prototypes shown at April events did not have roll-down windows or narrower track. Or even tilting wheel, if I remember correctly (I got to sit in the car and my knees were almost touching the steering wheel).

[DonC]

I have rarely spoken, but I have read plenty.

Do you really think a car the roll-down windows is such a bad thing? Yes, they're late, but mostly, a startup company needs LOTS of money. To my knowledge, they had $43 million total. That just isn't enough - plain and simple. If and when they get more dollars, the car currently designed will be delivered and you'll thank them for all of the changes.

Your point about the money is exactly correct, IMHO. You need at least $150M to get just about any car out. However, on the windows, I'd rather have a stronger body than roll down windows, so yeah, I do think the roll down windows are bad.

[evmavin]

Now THAT is the most prosaic argument I've heard.

Sometimes I can't help but feel they listened to the wal-mart crowd when it came to customer feedback. After all, the blog photo shows a guy trying to get in like someone from wal-mart would--even after they were told how to get in. Wal-mart is a metaphor for the demographic that isn't going to buy a futuristic car...I shop at wal-mart.

Let me be clear...overweight, fast-food-snarfing, slurpy guzzling humans and people who can barely get in and out of a normal are NOT the ones you want to listen to when you're building the most efficient car on the planet.

Precise demographics should be attached to that customer data they recieved -- where is that?


Agreed, in my past career I did extensive customer testing and usability labs for a fortune 50 and understanding how to target and process your research and apply it correctly is key to proper product development. In some ways that 2e changes were "dumbed up". I think the problems at Aptera are more cultural and political mixed with people who are not qualified for the task.