11/20/09 - Is the leaf taking over Aptera?

[Matthijs]

fN4aNcDwzlM
Link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fN4aNcDwzlM)

[Spank Daddy]

charging stations?!? WTF

[wattrone]

hello
charging station have to be installed at home, cant we use the damn outlet plug.

[eestorfan]

hello
charging station have to be installed at home, cant we use the damn outlet plug.

You sure can! If you use the 110/120v. outlet, it will just take longer to charge. Remember though, most people will just top it off so it won't take the eight hours as it would for a full charge. The first 1000 buyers in 2010 from the five states (CA, AZ, OR, WA, TN) will receive a 240v. charging station installed free!

[evmavin]

You sure can! If you use the 110/120v. outlet, it will just take longer to charge. Remember though, most people will just top it off so it won't take the eight hours as it would for a full charge. The first 1000 buyers in 2010 from the five states (CA, AZ, OR, WA, TN) will receive a 240v. charging station installed free!

The charging station will not give you any faster charging than using a 240 outlet. It's just a safety device and any skilled person could make it work without one.

[NeilBlanchard]

In the case of the Leaf, there are THREE charging speeds: 120v = ~16 hours, 240v = ~8hours, and the fast charge = 80% charge in under 30 minutes. 240v and "fast" are NOT the same.

[evmavin]

In the case of the Leaf, there are THREE charging speeds: 120v = ~16 hours, 240v = ~8hours, and the fast charge = 80% charge in under 30 minutes. 240v and "fast" are NOT the same.


Exactly, and the last requires a very large, expensive wall-mounted charger which is not the same as the "charging station" they are offering to the first 1000 customers which could be bypassed since it is most likely not a charger but a junction box, otherwise only expect to charge at proprietary charging stations. It makes more sense for the fast charge input to be DC and the 120/240 to be AC where at 120 you use a standard plug on one end and a "charging station" for the 240 connection.

[eestorfan]

In the case of the Leaf, there are THREE charging speeds: 120v = ~16 hours, 240v = ~8hours, and the fast charge = 80% charge in under 30 minutes. 240v and "fast" are NOT the same.

Full-charge time at 220V is four to eight hours, while the 110V is 16 to 18 hours. It all depends on how full the batteries are. Most people are going to just top them off.

[evmavin]

Eight hours at empty on 240 is not a very good rate unless the finish charge is really long. Even a 20A 240 charger should do 80% of a 0% 24 kwh pack in under four hours. Based on these numbers it would seem the leaf has a very low power charger for it's pack size. Since there appears to be a DC input one could modify a charger like the PFC-50 which would bring the pack from 0% to 100% in about 2 hours. If they are taking the pack to say 80% DOD then a charge to 80% FULL would take 1.2 hours approximately. That DC input could prove very valuable!

[solardude]

i posted a question to Nissan regarding actual range of the Leaf. i asked if one had to drive at an average speed of 19 mph to reach the 100 mile range (LA4). here is the response:

Thank you for taking the time to personally contact us about your
interest in the Nissan Electric Vehicle.

The Nissan LEAF will have a standard range of 100 miles on highway and
city driving with average speeds around 55-65 MPH. You will not need to
drive the car at 19 MPH to travel 100 miles.

[KarenRei]

i posted a question to Nissan regarding actual range of the Leaf. i asked if one had to drive at an average speed of 19 mph to reach the 100 mile range (LA4). here is the response:

Thank you for taking the time to personally contact us about your
interest in the Nissan Electric Vehicle.

The Nissan LEAF will have a standard range of 100 miles on highway and
city driving with average speeds around 55-65 MPH. You will not need to
drive the car at 19 MPH to travel 100 miles.

Interesting if true -- although those speeds are still only 2/3rds the aero drag of 75mph.

[kerbe]

I don't understand the "80%" charge. Can you not do a 100% charge at one of those stations?

[KarenRei]

They describe an 80% charge so that the numbers sound better. A 100% charge requires cell equalization and thus takes more than linearly longer.

[kerbe]

"cell equalization" -- sounds like a socialist plan for prison reform!