Nissan Leaf as Aptera alternative? REALLY?

[butter]

4/20 per the Wired blog post (http://www.wired.com/autopia/2010/03/nissan-leaf-ev-price)

Nissan officially stated they will begin taking consumer reservations for the LEAF on April 20.

[evmavin]

Nissan officially stated they will begin taking consumer reservations for the LEAF on April 20.


Just watch what happens between now and then in term of EV announcements.

[LTLFTcomposite]

Nissan officially stated they will begin taking consumer reservations for the LEAF on April 20.

I could be proven wrong, but will go out on a limb that with Nissan, April 20th means April 20th, and December 2010 means December 2010.

The whole Toyota debacle has had me wondering if something like Aptera is worth risking your life in anyway. Do they even remotely have the resources to do the kind of testing that is required to produce a safe product as complex as car?

[evmavin]

I could be proven wrong, but will go out on a limb that with Nissan, April 20th means April 20th, and December 2010 means December 2010.

The whole Toyota debacle has had me wondering if something like Aptera is worth risking your life in anyway. Do they even remotely have the resources to do the kind of testing that is required to produce a safe product as complex as car?


I'd be more concerned about lead poisoning:)

[aptera1213]

Just watch what happens between now and then in term of EV announcements.


Yes...I expect there to be a rush of news and details for the others who hope to compete with the LEAF. And while the prices might not be lower than the LEAF (well the Th!nk City will have to be lower), I do expect the prices of the Ford Focus EV and Mits iMiEV and others to suddenly be less than we were expecting just 2 days ago.

The Leaf is said to be 32k
Just last week Fiat said the 500 EV would be 32k.
The Focus will have to be around the number, plus or minus a grand.
And the City will have to be a few grand less at least...around 27k with battery sound right.

So, with rebates as such, suddenly we could have a number of EV in the 20 to 25k range (20k in Cal and Georgia, 25k in other states). SWEET.

But bad news for Coda, Myers and other start up EVs. The big boys, while stalling a bit at first, have really jumped on EVs faster than the start ups thought they would.

Gavin

[SlowSRT4]

Just last week Fiat said the 500 EV would be 32k.
There's no way... Source?

[Matthijs]

There's no way... Source?
boss Sergio Marchionne said a production version of the Fiat 500 EV could cost as much as $32000 with the battery accounting for half that.
http://www.wired.com/autopia/2010/03/consumer-reports-plug-in-study/

[SlowSRT4]

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2010/03/consumer-reports-plug-in-study/
"Fiat and Chrysler CEO Sergio Marchionne said the concept would sell for about $32,000 if it went on the market, of which $16,000 covered the cost of the batteries."

Still, saying the concept version would sell for $32k is a lot different from "we are setting the price of the production version officially at $32k."

Those costs can, and probably will, drop by the time the car hits production. Especially considering the battery pack is half the cost of the entire vehicle.

[KarenRei]

The question is whether that is pre or post tax credit.

[aptera1213]

I'm betting pre...especially after the LEAF price :)

But really the 500 is an affordable car...I expect the base gas car to sell for 15K in the states. So 32K for the EV seems easy to do.

Take 15K car, pull out 2 or 3K in engine and exhaust and such, put in 10k or so in batteries and you still have 9K or so for all the electric bits...

Gavin

[SlowSRT4]

The question is whether that is pre or post tax credit.
Did you really need to ask that? If it was post tax credit that would make the Fiat 500 EV $40,000.

I think you are forgetting the Fiat 500 is actually a very inexpensive car. Not to mention small and lightweight (meaning less battery capacity is needed to hit a certain range, and a less powerful electric motor to hit a certain acceleration level).

[KarenRei]

Did you really need to ask that? If it was post tax credit that would make the Fiat 500 EV $40,000.

Like the Volt.

The Leaf has really rewritten people's expectations about EV pricing. But so far, it's the exception rather than the rule.

[palmer_md]

Like the Volt.
and the 2e.

[Matthijs]

"Fiat and Chrysler CEO Sergio Marchionne said the concept would sell for about $32,000 if it went on the market, of which $16,000 covered the cost of the batteries."

Still, saying the concept version would sell for $32k is a lot different from "we are setting the price of the production version officially at $32k."

Those costs can, and probably will, drop by the time the car hits production. Especially considering the battery pack is half the cost of the entire vehicle.

I can not find your quote in the above piece. The quote from the article states that a production version could cost as much as $32k. The production version. But who knows tomorrow they can see something else.

[SlowSRT4]

Like the Volt.

The Leaf has really rewritten people's expectations about EV pricing. But so far, it's the exception rather than the rule.
Volt price is not 40k, Volt price is not even set yet.

I contest that the Leaf hasn't rewritten expectations. I don't believe that the Leaf has cut the cost of an EV in half or something. It is just one of the first out of the gate.

Does anyone here really believe that the Fiat 500 EV, the Focus EV, etc. won't also be 32k? I'm curious what makes you think that the Leaf's price is somehow untouchable? I know they cheaped out on the battery cooling and battery durability, but still.

[KarenRei]

Volt price is not 40k, Volt price is not even set yet.

GM has been saying a $40k (pre-credit) ballpark figure over and over and over again.

[aptera1213]

Starting with the base (SV) trim, buyers can expect an abundance of standard features. The SV comes with all of the expected features of a modern car plus an advanced navigation system with Internet / smart phone connectivity which allows the vehicle to be remotely pre-heated and pre-cooled. The advanced navigation system also allows the owner to control car charging features. In addition, the SV comes equipped with Bluetooth connectivity, push button start, satellite radio, stability control, six airbags and a buyer-reassuring three-year roadside assistance plan.

Stepping up to the SL trim, at a price premium of only $940 (MSRP), Nissan adds a few more touches including fog lights, automatic headlights, a rear-view monitor and a solar panel spoiler. The spoiler will not charge the vehicle's main batteries, but it can be used to trickle charge an accessory battery.

Wow...this will be a nicely equipped car. The "masses" don't have to fear about all EVs being stripped down cars.

I will 100% be putting down a deposit come 4-20.

That said, I can't wait for some stripped down EVs to come to market. I would love to see what Nissan can do if they want to go really light and aero in an EV.

I still plan to give this LEAF to the wife or daughter in 2 years and get a 500EV. But it will be a great little commuter for me for 2 years, and then a great little about town car for either my wife or eldest.

Gavin

[SlowSRT4]

The Fiat 500 won't be stripped down. It will have everything you just quoted and more (it has Microsoft Sync [different name though]), and has seven airbags instead of six. If you were referring to the Th!nk or something else, ignore this comment. :biggrin:

Of course Ford Focus EV will have all of that plus a lot more. It has Microsoft Sync plus Ford MyTouch, which seems to be very highly regarded.

Volt will obviously have all of the same stuff as well. And pricing isn't final on that, so speculation on the price is pointless.

The only time you don't get such features is with a start-up like maybe Th!nk or Myers. Some of you seem to be comparing the Leaf to only vehicles from start-ups, in which case obviously it blows them away. But what you should be doing is comparing it to its actual competition (Focus EV, Volt, Fiat 500 EV).

Know the car inside and out. Compare every aspect with the competition, read the reviews (don't have to agree with them, but read them anyway), don't feel hurried into buying right away, and then make an informed purchase decision. That's my advice anyway. :sign0002:

[evmavin]

The Fiat 500 won't be stripped down. It will have everything you just quoted and more (it has Microsoft Sync [different name though]), and has seven airbags instead of six. If you were referring to the Th!nk or something else, ignore this comment. :biggrin:

Of course Ford Focus EV will have all of that plus a lot more. It has Microsoft Sync plus Ford MyTouch, which seems to be very highly regarded.

Volt will obviously have all of the same stuff as well. And pricing isn't final on that, so speculation on the price is pointless.

The only time you don't get such features is with a start-up like maybe Th!nk or Myers. Some of you seem to be comparing the Leaf to only vehicles from start-ups, in which case obviously it blows them away. But what you should be doing is comparing it to its actual competition (Focus EV, Volt, Fiat 500 EV).

Know the car inside and out. Compare every aspect with the competition, read the reviews (don't have to agree with them, but read them anyway), don't feel hurried into buying right away, and then make an informed purchase decision. That's my advice anyway. :sign0002:


Think is not a startup, they have been in business almost 20 years as an EV company producing cars over 15. The Think is supposed to have Nav, airbags and all the extra features and it has one of the highest safety ratings. The Think also has a much larger pack than the Leaf.

[SlowSRT4]

Think is not a startup, they have been in business almost 20 years as an EV company producing cars over 15. The Think is supposed to have Nav, airbags and all the extra features and it has one of the highest safety ratings. The Think also has a much larger pack than the Leaf.
Well, all the more reason why I wouldn't simply buy a Leaf day one. I would fear that 9 months or a year later the Focus EV or something would come out and be better than the Leaf across the board, giving me a serious case of buyer's remorse.

I'm already kind of feeling that right now. I bought a Caliber in 2009 but I would have rather waited for the Fiat 500 if I had known. Wouldn't want to make that mistake twice. Waiting a year for a car is trivial when you consider how many years you will be using that car.

[evmavin]

Well, all the more reason why I wouldn't simply buy a Leaf day one. I would fear that 9 months or a year later the Focus EV or something would come out and be better than the Leaf across the board, giving me a serious case of buyer's remorse.

I'm already kind of feeling that right now. I bought a Caliber in 2009 but I would have rather waited for the Fiat 500 if I had known. Wouldn't want to make that mistake twice. Waiting a year for a car is trivial when you consider how many years you will be using that car.


There is always something better on the way, that's what leases are for. Also, there is a possibility the rebates may dry up. I only wish the Leaf lease was two years.

[aptera1213]

For me:

one. I know Nissan makes good cars. The LEAF will be a very good car. Will the Focus be better? Maybe, but probably marginally. I would be fine with either as my first EV. If the Focus came out in Dec at the same time as the LEAF, I might buy that instead. If Ford puts out lots of info and takes deposits for a Focus you can get in mid 2011, I might wait. But as stands now, I put down a deposit for a LEAF in 20 days.

two. I want to support EVs. I feel we have to show to the car companies that EVs can not only survive but thrive. Thus I think as many of us as possible should get an EV asap. Yes it must be safe and a good EV. We shouldn't just jump at any old EV. But the LEAF fits the bill of Good and Early and Safe.

three. there is no three.

Gavin

[SlowSRT4]

There is always something better on the way, that's what leases are for. Also, there is a possibility the rebates may dry up. I only wish the Leaf lease was two years.
You're referring to the CARB rebate right? I can completely understand getting in on that.

But the $7500 rebate, that one probably isn't going to run out is it?

[evmavin]

You're referring to the CARB rebate right? I can completely understand getting in on that.

But the $7500 rebate, that one probably isn't going to run out is it?


I believe it is limited to the first x vehicles of each MFG.

[aptera1213]

200,000

so you have a couple of years :)

Gavin

[evmavin]

200,000

so you have a couple of years :)

Gavin

per mfg or vehicle?

[aptera1213]

i think per mfg...but is Nissan making more than one EV in the next couple of years?

That Nissan tilting car would be the bomb.

Gavin

[evmavin]

Could change models, etc. Never know. I wonder what resale will be like? If only there was a shorter lease! It's not my first choice as I don't need such a big vehicle and the parking in that is going to be terrible.

[SEGsby]

You'll adapt. :)

[aptera1213]

Parking terrible? It's no Th!nk, but it is about the same size as an Accord. You never hear people complain about how hard it is to park an Accord.

Parking an Aptera would be way worse than parking a LEAF.

Gavin

actually smaller than the Accord:

Leaf..................Accord
175....length..... 194
69.7...Width....... 72
61......Height......58
106...Wheelbase...110

[SEGsby]

Due to the single pivot point in the rear, I should think it would be EASIER to parallel park an Aptera?

Not that I've done this, nor expect to, anytime soon... :(

[SlowSRT4]

Parking terrible? It's no Th!nk, but it is about the same size as an Accord. You never hear people complain about how hard it is to park an Accord.

Parking an Aptera would be way worse than parking a LEAF.

Gavin

actually smaller than the Accord:

Leaf..................Accord
175....length..... 194
69.7...Width....... 72
61......Height......58
106...Wheelbase...110
I already have trouble parking my Caliber sometimes. It isn't a huge vehicle but I still have to be careful about my clearance and if a couple cars are parked a little bit too far off to one side then I probably need to avoid that space.

But parking a Fiat 500 for example would be a piece of cake. The difference between that and a normal car is similar to the difference between the normal car and a larger truck. Each segment of vehicle you go up it gets more difficult to park.

Of course I wouldn't go with a smaller car just because of parking, but it is part of it. But as you said in some of your earlier posts, you always talked about how smaller cars are the perfect platform for electric because you can use less battery, have faster recharge times, better performance/efficiency, etc. That's basically how I feel right now. I'd rather not have to deal with long recharge times, lackluster acceleration/handling, and a very expensive battery replacement at 100k; just to "support" EVs. I'll wait and see how it plays out.

Fiat 500 EV still seems a lot more like the ideal EV I want. Small, light, good-looking, efficient, fun, practical, and easy to park. :sick0026:

[aptera1213]

My fav too...which is why I give the LEAF to the wife or eldest daughter when I can buy a 500ev.

That car will rock...silently. :)

The Fiat500ev will be perfect for me...Just hate to have to wait 2 years for it...and my experiences have told me that 2 years could be longer...though I think Fiat will be much more likely to make time frames than Aptera.

Gavin

[aptera1213]

Also....compare the Ford Focus 2012 EV coming in 2011...

Leaf..................Accord.........Focus
175....length..... 194.............178
69.7...Width....... 72.............67.9
61......Height......58..............58
106...Wheelbase...110..........104

So the FocusEv and LEAF will be very similar....

Fiat 500

139.4 long
64 wide
58.5 tall
91 wheelbase

nice for city driving :)

and currently 1907 pounds...now the EV will weigh more, but still a good weight...heck the gas 500 weights almost the same as the 2e.

Gavin

[SlowSRT4]

My fav too...which is why I give the LEAF to the wife or eldest daughter when I can buy a 500ev.

That car will rock...silently. :)

The Fiat500ev will be perfect for me...Just hate to have to wait 2 years for it...and my experiences have told me that 2 years could be longer...though I think Fiat will be much more likely to make time frames than Aptera.

Gavin
Well that's the good thing about the major automakers. They might not give a date as early as you'd like, or let on to their plans ahead of time. But once they set a date they stick to it.

They know every step of the process of producing a vehicle, and have it all down like clockwork. They have the experience of doing it so many times before. So when a date is set, you know they will make that date.

[evmavin]

I already have trouble parking my Caliber sometimes. It isn't a huge vehicle but I still have to be careful about my clearance and if a couple cars are parked a little bit too far off to one side then I probably need to avoid that space.

But parking a Fiat 500 for example would be a piece of cake. The difference between that and a normal car is similar to the difference between the normal car and a larger truck. Each segment of vehicle you go up it gets more difficult to park.

Of course I wouldn't go with a smaller car just because of parking, but it is part of it. But as you said in some of your earlier posts, you always talked about how smaller cars are the perfect platform for electric because you can use less battery, have faster recharge times, better performance/efficiency, etc. That's basically how I feel right now. I'd rather not have to deal with long recharge times, lackluster acceleration/handling, and a very expensive battery replacement at 100k; just to "support" EVs. I'll wait and see how it plays out.

Fiat 500 EV still seems a lot more like the ideal EV I want. Small, light, good-looking, efficient, fun, practical, and easy to park. :sick0026:



When I say "parking" I mean as in city parking like NYC and SF, where you need a MINI to find a spot and a Think is even shorter.

[SlowSRT4]

When I say "parking" I mean as in city parking like NYC and SF, where you need a MINI to find a spot and a Think is even shorter.
That too

__________MINI_______Th!nk________Fiat 500________Smart
length_____142.8______122.8________139.6__________ 106.1
width______66.5_______63.1_________64_____________ 61.4
height_____55.4_______60.9_________58.6___________ 60.7

[eestorfan]

Even though they said only "select markets" for 2010 of course you can just assume CA is one of those. Then you even have nice rebate programs like you mentioned on top of that. Darn you californians! :tongue0002:

The five states for 12/2010 are: AZ, CA, OR, WA, TN. The rest will have to wait until 2011. :)

[eestorfan]

I'm in. I will be putting down my $99 as soon as they open up the reservations.

Sorry Jhm, but Texas isn't one of the first markets. Only those in the five states, AZ, CA, OR, WA, TN can get one in 2010, unless Nissan has changed what they said earlier.

[eestorfan]

The article says their goal is 25,000 reservations by December. I don't think they have any idea what is headed their way... they could see that many the first day.

There will only be 5,000 vehicles sold in 2010...1,000 in each of the five states. So after the first 5000 reservations, everyone else will have to wait until 2011.
Also, Neil forgot about the first 1,000 (saw it changed to 950) people in each of those five states will receive a FREE 240v charging station including installation. The rest will have to pay and use the rebate/credit. AND in each of those five states, before 12/2010, over 1,000 charging stations will be installed with 50 of them being 'fast' charging ones.

[jhm614]

Sorry Jhm, but Texas isn't one of the first markets. Only those in the five states, AZ, CA, OR, WA, TN can get one in 2010, unless Nissan has changed what they said earlier.

Texas is not one of the first markets, but it doesn't look like they are limiting reservations to the December launch areas. (Maybe they are using the open reservations to determine needed 2011 demand?) Either way, I'm plunking down my $ as soon as I can. Hey, I would have put down earnest money on an Aptera if they would have let me.

[Matthijs]

I also read this on the Nissan website:

Exclusive Offer

The Nissan LEAF™ is the sole vehicle available through The EV Project, led by EV infrastructure provider eTec. As part of this program, eTec will be providing free home charging stations and installation for up to 4,700 Nissan LEAF™ owners6.

[SEGsby]

FREE HOME CHARGERS!?!?!?! OMMFG!

Nissan is playing to win this...

[Spies]

Just got this email from Nissan:

"the time is coming. your priority reservation instructions are now scheduled to be sent to you by e-mail between 1pm - 6pm (EDT) on 4/20/10, so keep a lookout for that next e-mail. it will include an exclusive link enabling you to start the reservation process in your own market, then, with a fully refundable $99 reservation fee, you'll be on the list for a new Nissan LEAF - not to mention be that much closer to enjoying all the benefits of driving emissions-free."

Looks like I will soon have deposits down on two, albeit very different, electric vehicles. I wonder which one I will get first and if Nissan will tell me where I am in line.

The quote from Nissan above was an image in the e-mail. I used ocr to convert it to text but I see I missed a couple of typos from the process. Should be fixed now.

[evmavin]

Just got this email from Nissan:

"the time is coming. your priority reservation instructions are now scheduled to be sent to you by e-mail between 1pm - 6pm (EDT) on 4/20/10, so keep a lookout for that next e-mail. it will include an exclusive link enabling you to start the reservation process in your own market, then, with a fully refundable $99 reservation fee, you'll be on the list for a new Nissan LEAF - not to menton be that much closer to enjoying all the beneits of driving emissions-free."

Looks like I will soon have deposits down on two, albeit very different, electric vehicles. I wonder which one I will get first and if Nissan will tell me where I am in line.

The quote from Nissan above was an image in the e-mail. I used ocr to convert it to text but I see I missed a couple of typos from the process. Should be fixed now.


What is the other? If it is an Aptera then you will be driving a Leaf before you will even know the exact price of your Aptera.

[Spies]

What is the other? If it is an Aptera then you will be driving a Leaf before you will even know the exact price of your Aptera.
:D

The "other" is an Aptera 2e. I just updated my signature to include that information.

[javan]

We also received the Nissan Leaf e-mail. My wife will be putting down a deposit as soon as the link becomes available. So we will also have deposits down on the same two vehicles. We will then see what happens. Jim

[SlowSRT4]

I also got my LEAF email.

But I think some of you guys need to pay attention to the terms, there won't be much availability initially, dealers can raise price, and only one per household:

When sales commences in December 2010, limited quantities available in select markets/states thru online reservation system. Increased avail. in Spring 2011 with full market rollout thru 2012. At start of sale, one order per household address until avail. increases.

[1]After fed tax value subj to taxpayer's eligibility to offset maximum $7,500 in fed tax credits. Must incur fed. tax liability to receive max. benefits. Consult your tax professional.

[2]Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price. Dealer sets price.

[javan]

Hey, all I need is one! As a consumer, if the dealer markups are too high, I will wait. I'm unsure what the Nissan criteria for where they will release the first cars actually are, but I'm willing to put down $99 just to see if they meet my needs. Still wishing I had a pp6 already, Jim

[Spies]

I also got my LEAF email.

But I think some of you guys need to pay attention to the terms, there won't be much availability initially, dealers can raise price, and only one per household:
Still will not stop me and my partner from both putting down deposits especially since deposits are only $99. I figure it will increase our odds of being offered one. :)

However if Nissan does not keep its dealers on a short leash when it comes to LEAF pricing they will lose my business. I will not pay over sticker for a car. :p

[Mesuge]

Nikki, the host of EVcast is scheduled for a demo ride soon, so you might collect some ideas on which aspects to focus primarily in this "review". Matthijs has got direct contact on her, perhaps he would be interested in this as well.

The lease-time would be probably limited so to fix up some sort of inproptu range measurement session won't be possible. But, I'd like to know some more tech info, especially about the batt. system or any info we can milk from this event:

- any range testing data from Japan?
- is there some sort of heating element present for the pack and if so when it's turning on?
- what is the safe low-hi batt. cycling pattern 20-90% DoD or less/more ?
- why they don't come as open about the testing as the Volt programme, different closed/asian mentality?
(or is it nowhere done on the serious scale as by GM?)
- aux. loads question (how big kW is the air condition unit, powermodule/emotor cooling, etc.)?
!(any chance measuring these loads on the fly via dedicated dash/lcd tab - showing effect on range as Aptera can do?)
- eta for production start bound for continental LHD market - immediately? (UK factory)

Pls. chip in some more questions, but most likely the PR people from Nissan wouldn't know it anyway..

[Matthijs]

I would like to get this questions to Nikki surely. But I think they will not be giving out much more info than they did on the USA Tour. If more questions are being gathered I will contact Nikki about it.

[Mesuge]

I think Nikki has got the smarts and potential to push these people to spill some beans (juicy info), on some occasions it's those various bits and pieces of info, which can emerge later into basic picture..

[evmavin]

Still will not stop me and my partner from both putting down deposits especially since deposits are only $99. I figure it will increase our odds of being offered one. :)

However if Nissan does not keep its dealers on a short leash when it comes to LEAF pricing they will lose my business. I will not pay over sticker for a car. :p


If dealers go anything over MSRP on this launch I walk. Dealers should be lucky to get the PR and early exposure and adding margin to these vehicles on a pre-order is going to prove a big mistake for dealerships that wish to establish themselves as EV friendly. EV buyers and in this case are early adopters are not the typical car buyer but they will establish a reputation for "EV friendly" dealers. Mini tried to pull this on me and I went to another market and saved $5000, what a joke. I will never, ever buy a thing from that dealer and they lost two sales in their short sided approach. I don't think this is business as usual and I hope Nissan realizes this and selects key dealers on the initial launch. Talk about pushing people into ICE vehicles with EV gouging!

[futura]

If dealers go anything over MSRP on this launch I walk. Dealers should be lucky to get the PR and early exposure and adding margin to these vehicles on a pre-order is going to prove a big mistake for dealerships that wish to establish themselves as EV friendly. EV buyers and in this case are early adopters are not the typical car buyer but they will establish a reputation for "EV friendly" dealers. Mini tried to pull this on me and I went to another market and saved $5000, what a joke. I will never, ever buy a thing from that dealer and they lost two sales in their short sided approach. I don't think this is business as usual and I hope Nissan realizes this and selects key dealers on the initial launch. Talk about pushing people into ICE vehicles with EV gouging! Yeah, Mini lost my business also for the same reason. I was also one of the first to get selected for the MiniEV in SoCal. I passed when the dealer wouldn't agree to let me drive it first.
Well, it is the car business after all. Didn't seem to hurt Prius sales any. It really comes down to where sales "creativity" ends and gouging begins. Lots of ways to game the system. Imagine if Nissan's supply to a dealer is far far below demand. They might get creative with the delivery date; call you up "Hey evmavin! I see you're on the waiting list for our Leaf. I can move you up 2 months for $10". Obviously, your $$ may vary but for $10 over MSRP I'd do it. Do I hear $100, $1000? It's just a number... until it's gouging.
Cheers.

[LTLFTcomposite]

Yeah, Mini lost my business also for the same reason. I was also one of the first to get selected for the MiniEV in SoCal. I passed when the dealer wouldn't agree to let me drive it first.
Well, it is the car business after all. Didn't seem to hurt Prius sales any. It really comes down to where sales "creativity" ends and gouging begins. Lots of ways to game the system. Imagine if Nissan's supply to a dealer is far far below demand. They might get creative with the delivery date; call you up "Hey evmavin! I see you're on the waiting list for our Leaf. I can move you up 2 months for $10". Obviously, your $$ may vary but for $10 over MSRP I'd do it. Do I hear $100, $1000? It's just a number... until it's gouging.
Cheers.

If Nissan winds up selling them as fast as they can make them and the waiting list is as long as your arm you have to think other mfrs will take noticen and fast. Of course that still leaves the questions of a) how quickly they could respond with a competitive offering and b) can they do so profitably.

[mycomya]

If dealers go anything over MSRP on this launch I walk... I don't think this is business as usual and I hope Nissan realizes this and selects key dealers on the initial launch. Talk about pushing people into ICE vehicles with EV gouging!

I asked the local Nissan dealer (who is part of the early initial launch) about markups, expecting one of some kind (given what seems like exceptional demand). The dealer said he's getting about 7 calls a day from people asking about the Leaf. I was just hoping the markup wouldn't be too much. He was very clear to say that the LEAF would be sold at MSRP, however, with no exceptions. No markups, period.

So that put the issue to rest for me, and this policy is probably maintained throughout the US dealerships; I surmise it is set at the top by Nissan execs.

I'm getting as excited about the Leaf as I was about the Aptera early on. It is going to be so nice to breeze past gas stations quietly, zero-emissions.

I feel no regret about dropping the Aptera reservation!!

[evmavin]

I asked the local Nissan dealer (who is part of the early initial launch) about markups, expecting one of some kind (given what seems like exceptional demand). The dealer said he's getting about 7 calls a day from people asking about the Leaf. I was just hoping the markup wouldn't be too much. He was very clear to say that the LEAF would be sold at MSRP, however, with no exceptions. No markups, period.

So that put the issue to rest for me, and this policy is probably maintained throughout the US dealerships; I surmise it is set at the top by Nissan execs.

I'm getting as excited about the Leaf as I was about the Aptera early on. It is going to be so nice to breeze past gas stations quietly, zero-emissions.

I feel no regret about dropping the Aptera reservation!!


That's good news, I hope it applies for all. Now they just need to explain why 100 miles is really 70:)

[eestorfan]

That's good news, I hope it applies for all. Now they just need to explain why 100 miles is really 70:)

The way I understand it, the LA4 test is a 17 mile loop with mostly city driving and a little bit of hwy (56mph). So if you use the LEAF just around your city, you would get 100 miles. But if you do a lot of hwy driving say at 65 or higher, then depending on how much of that is hwy vs. city, you would get somewhere between 70-80 miles on a charge.

[aptera1213]

Maybe they can do it like gas cars...

100 miles per charge city / 70 miles per charge hwy...

people tend to understand city and highways driving is different...we are just use to highway miles being higher...but with EVs people just have to get use to it being opposite.

Gavin

[chijayhawker]

Lots of changes on the Leaf reservation site. Redesign of the website. Good info, but still no direct link to the reservations system. Last I knew the link to the reservation system will be available in the e-mail they will be sending out today. So may not be on the public site for a while. Nice videos though.