Clay models going Wharp speed no where fast

[timotb]

You guys will forever be jerking off to pencil sketches and clay models so long as you insist on doing this vehicle in electric. The overall Aptera concept is great, but the technology for electric isn’t completely here yet, and wont be here for maybe 20-100 years. You can keep dreaming about it like inter-stellar, wharp speed travel on Star Trek or…. stick in an efficient diesel engine capable of doing 100mpg+ . The EPA’s need to accept it, just as they do big trucks puffing black smoke down my road.

Glad I didnt put money on this.

[G-Jet]

timotb...if you had any clue, you would know the aptera was NOT designed as a electric vehicle. It can take an ICE, be it gas or diesel, OR a e-motor. At least you got the "overall Aptera concept is great" part correct.

G

[Don]

Timot B. G Jet is absolutely right. Besides, why do you refer to 'wharp' speed? The correct spelling is warp. The only thing I know of that can actually achieve wharp speed are wales.

[timotb]

timotb...if you had any clue, you would know the aptera was NOT designed as a electric vehicle. It can take an ICE, be it gas or diesel, OR a e-motor. At least you got the "overall Aptera concept is great" part correct.

G


Yeah, I know it was not designed as an electric vehicle....but try and get buy one in diesel....for that matter try and buy one period.

As far as the spelling of wharp or warp....does it really matter? ...The concept is still fantasy.....the same as the Aptera currently is.

[palmer_md]

The Aptera is a great concept that is actually making it to production.

...The concept is still fantasy.....the same as the Aptera currently is.


I see you are one of the many who has lost their optomistic view of Aptera. They really have blown it over the past 6 months.

[SEGsby]

The spelling in this entire thread has me laughing... :sign0020:

First, "Tim" gets a point for the Aptera being a fantasy at this time. But that's basically rubbing forum members noses in an unfortunate situation that they have no control over. Thanks.

Secondly, almost no one is using clay for models anymore, it's all CAD/CAM, rapid prototyping & stereo lithography-- with some minor hand finishing.

And lastly, "Tim" is quite mistaken about electric propulsion and the current state of the technology. It's been quite usable for some time, and there are a number of EVs already on the road, in various forms. Some of them were built as far back as the 1890's! It's a proven technology, without question. Plus, a number of forum members here also already own electric vehicles, so I'm sure their personal experiences would directly counter your personal opinion on the matter. I've had my EV for nearly 4 years.

The facts are, electric propulsion's high efficiency is the key to long term sustainable transportation for humanity. And it's a far more realistic and obtainable goal than the pipe-dream of hydrogen (which is being pushed by the petroleum industry).

Oil only gets you lung disease, climate instability, war & economic slavery.

Are you somehow suggesting you have a better alternative?

:tongue0015:

[overpowered]

You guys will forever be jerking off to pencil sketches and clay models so long as you insist on doing this vehicle in electric. The overall Aptera concept is great, but the technology for electric isn’t completely here yet, and wont be here for maybe 20-100 years. You can keep dreaming about it like inter-stellar, wharp speed travel on Star Trek or…. stick in an efficient diesel engine capable of doing 100mpg+ . The EPA’s need to accept it, just as they do big trucks puffing black smoke down my road.

Glad I didnt put money on this.Wharp is a special kind of sand used for polishing. "Wharp speed" would be "sand speed", which doesn't make any sense.

The Aptera has had working prototypes for a few years now -- not drawings, not models, but actual cars that a human being can actually get in and drive down the road.

Your belief that electric is 20-100 years away shows extraordinary ignorance of the current state of electric vehicle development. There are already real production electric cars on the road. Check out the Tesla Roadster for one of the more extreme examples but there are a several usable electric cars available now (most a lot cheaper than the Tesla) and a lot more on the way.

What is it that makes you think that the technology isn't there for electrics?

You also seem to conveniently ignore the fact that Aptera is planned to be offered also as a series hybrid, sometimes called an range extended electric, which will allow it to have as much range and refuel as easily as any ICE based vehicle.

The Aptera does have a serious problem, but it has nothing to do with it being electric. It has to do with bad upper management making a lot of really bad decisions delaying production.

[PatQ562]

The ever popular question - "Is EV technology "there" yet?"

My quick response - certainly, in terms of having the ingredients to travel 100+ miles using reliable batteries, with greatly reduced energy cost, and virtually zero local emissions. Not yet, in terms of economic cost, but there's no obvious reason it couldn't be done with mass-production volume.

TECHNOLOGY:
The EV1 showed what can be done, using 10-15-year old technology. Despite my reports of numerous failures, the components were not under great strain, nothing ran hot, and so the problems were frustrating teething problems or "unforced errors", or the result of questionable design decisions. The car was a blast to drive and my daily driver for 3 years. The biggest weakness, the NiMH batteries, are now outclassed 200-300% by the newest lithium stuff, so the potential exists to have a car that should only need new tires and wiper blades during a normal service life. Driving the EV1 about 1000 miles a month only added about $25-$30 to my electric bill, so the equivalent cost was 2-3 cents per mile, or about 100 mpg equivalent at $3 a gallon (Electricity cost has not changed that much since then). The promise of Aptera was to double this efficiency - half the weight, half the drag, half the energy cost, half the battery cost, and with a full service life if the best battery claims can be believed.

ECONOMIC REALITY
The real value of such a car must be considered as a "second vehicle" for commuting or limited range motoring, hence LESS than a normal car. If someone could make them for $10K-$15K they would find a significant niche - much like the VW bug did in its day. This does not seem inherently impossible in the long run (consider that every gas car has a cheaply replaced alternator, with some few kilowatts of capacity, not THAT much smaller than the motor for an ultralight car). The batteries are still expensive but the materials are not inherently rare or expensive, it just awaits the miracles of mass production.

GETTING TO MARKET
There is a well-known bell-shaped curve of potential buyers for any technology - a thin tip of Early Adopters willing to pay a premium just to see if something works, swelling into a wave of Early Majority that recognize a new solution to a known problem, cresting into the Late Majority who buy something because everyone else has it, tailing off into Holdouts who just aren't interested for whatever reason. The challenge for startups is to "cross the chasm" between Early Adopters (enthusiasts and visionaries) and Early Majority, who demand economic value. Many startups get trapped in Early Adopter mode because their technology appeals to a few enthusiasts but will never meet the needs of the sensible majority. This is why it is necessary to be forward thinking in the selected technology (ie, AC motors, lithium batteries, new structural materials, ultimate efficiency, and a realistic package of style and amenities). Every successful product is the result of an ongoing stream of refinements and improvements, building on a given foundation. Building some sales with a low-tech solution, and then starting over with a whole new, more advanced design, puts you back to the beginning.

This was the allure of Aptera - a clear vision to be the most advanced car of its type, for ultimate appeal and long-term cost reduction. The "kit car" category can't cross the chasm where the real volume and profits are.

Pat Q

[speculawyer]

You guys will forever be jerking off to pencil sketches and clay models so long as you insist on doing this vehicle in electric. The overall Aptera concept is great, but the technology for electric isn’t completely here yet, and wont be here for maybe 20-100 years.
The technology is already here. It is simply a matter of economic cost. And between oil prices going up and battery prices coming down, it is nothing but a matter of time.