Hey NMGFAN and EVMAVIN: Convince me to buy the DUO or the Th!nk

[aptera1213]

If the Aptera is not to be, I will be needing to make back up plans (well, not "needing", but I have decided I want to get a car this year..early 2011 would be ok too if needed).

So it is kinda between these two cars: The Duo and The Th!nk. (The LEAF is limited in where they are selling, the iMIEV is strangely silent of late and the Tesla S is a good bit off in the distance, time wise and price wise.)

Typing Duo is easier, so that has an edge right there ;)

It seems I can get a Duo this summer. If I push, I might be able to get a Th!nk this winter, though next spring is more likely.

So sell me on the Duo. Or sell me on the Th!nk.

Pros and Cons would be lovely. Along with an specs that are known at this time. Weight, size, etc etc.

THANKS

[aptera1213]

some added info:

i commute alone about 6 miles each way. i am on-call often, so i might make the trip more than once a day. but it appears that either car would fit my needs in size and in range.

i can get the duo this summer, so that is a plus. then again it is really not a huge plus as i won't drive it much in the summer. i prefer to ride my bicycle to work from may to october. my two scooters (one a 150cc 2 stroke and one a 500cc 4 stroke) get year round use and are what i ride when i get called in (faster, less sweaty) or when the temps drop below 60.

where i live we do get weather. it can get to 100 degrees in the summer (but not more than once or twice a year) and it can get down into single digits in the winter (but not often either). we do get snow, but it is almost always melted by noon.

i would be a beta tester for the Duo, which is a plus as i would feel like i'm helping to more the EV market forward. but having the bugs already worked out in the Th!nk is also attractive.

soooooo....which one?

[KarenRei]

I'm neither one of your targets, but I thought I'd throw out some stats for the Th!nk. If anyone else has better, more up-to-date ones, I'd appreciate them.

Type: Car (4-wheels, highway-speed)
Top speed: 72mph (http://green.autoblog.com/2009/03/12/think-city-coming-to-the-u-s-info-overload/)
0-50: 16 seconds for the euro spec (probably slightly better for the US version). Note that this is 0-*50*, not *60*. For comparison, the 0-60 of a Prius is about 10 seconds. I wouldn't be surprised if the US spec did 0-60 in 16 seconds instead of 0-50.
Battery pack: 25kWh li-ion
Range: The euro-spec version is ostensibly rated at 120 miles city driving, by European standards. Given its weight and aero, it probably takes about 275Wh/mi during 70mph freeway driving and ~200Wh/mi in city driving (it's fairly heavy, at 3073lbs). If we assume an 85% DoD, this would imply 107 miles city range and 77 miles freeway range. As always, take all range figures with a grain of salt and use your own judgment.
Seating: 2+2: Two full-sized seats up front, plus a fairly sizeable trunk with two jump seats
Features: Power locks, a 4kW electric heater, electric windows, electric mirrors, air conditioning, an electrically heated windscreen, stereo CD with MP3, USB, Bluetooth, and a navigation & multimedia system.
US Pricing: Unknown. In Holland, if you want to buy it without a lease, it's about $50k (http://green.autoblog.com/2009/03/30/think-city-might-cost-49-500-u-s-in-holland-withouth-leasin/). Despite a more powerful motor, I'd expect it to cost less in the US, since cars are usually cheaper over here -- I'd expect a no-lease version to go for more like $40k. Once battery prices come down (i.e., after several years of production), they're reportedly considering a $20k sale price and $80-90/mo (~$1k/year) lease (http://green.autoblog.com/2009/03/12/think-city-coming-to-the-u-s-info-overload/).
Warranty: 3 year factory warranty

[solardude]

one consideration is that the Duo, being 3 wheels, is considered a motorcycle in most states. This means the insurance is WAY less. As an owner of a ZAP truck, my experience is $160 a YEAR to insure.

[speculawyer]

Range: The euro-spec version is ostensibly rated at 120 miles city driving, by European standards. Given its weight and aero, it probably takes about 275Wh/mi during 70mph freeway driving and ~200Wh/mi in city driving (it's fairly heavy, at 3073lbs). If we assume an 85% DoD, this would imply 107 miles city range and 77 miles freeway range. As always, take all range figures with a grain of salt and use your own judgment.
That's not true. I looked into this because that number seemed ridiculous . . and it turned out to be wrong. The 3073lbs figure is only when you fill it with the maximum people/cargo load of 600+ pounds. The car itself is 2300 to 2500 pounds.

Weight
* Battery weight: 245 - 260 kg
* Kerb weight: 1038 kg ( 2283.6 lbs)
* Payload 2 seater: 165 kg
http://www.thinkev.com/THINK-City/Specifications/Technical-data

Curb weight (US English) or Kerb weight (UK/Commonwealth English) is the total weight of a vehicle with standard equipment, all necessary operating consumables (e.g. motor oil and coolant), a full tank of fuel, while not loaded with either passengers or cargo.[1][2]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curb_weight

Or their brochure:
Net wehicle weight 1113 kg (2448.6 lbs)
Total weight 1397 kg (3073.4 lbs) (which equals vehicle plus full load)
Load capacity 284 kg (624.8 lbs)
http://thinkev.com/content/view/full/278

Edit: It is actually probably even a little lower than that since those specs used the Zebra battery which has a lower energy density than the Li-Ion batteries that would be used in the US model.

[speculawyer]

I still think this is the best promo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMF2zn4IxLY&feature=player_embedded

It is made by Think fans from this social networking site:
http://electricaid.ning.com/

As far as I know, the Think City and the Tesla Roadster are the only two crash-tested, freeway-speed capable, electric cars that are rolling off assembly lines today.

Think was in bankruptcy for a while but came out with help from Indiana based Li-Ion battery maker Enerdel. The production was moved from Norway to the Valmet plant in Finland where it is made alongside the Porsche Boxster.

Like the Volt, it is a mystery as to how much they will cost in the USA due to currency differences, tax differences, etc.
The high number Karen quoted above includes a big 19% euro VAT (value-added-tax). If they can sell it for around $30K in the USA, the tax credit pushes it down to $22500.00 or so . . . which would be a great deal considering you would they pay zero for gasoline & oil changes for the rest of the car's lifetime.


With EVs, it all comes down to the price of oil (if you are not into it for environmental or other externality concerns.)

[aptera1213]

thanks everyone...

at 30k, and no aptera in sight, i would get a th!nk...

at 40k i would probably wait for the tesla s

still need to find out more about the Duo...but I gather the info isn't out there yet

[NmGfan]

Not much spec info available on the Duo yet other than that on Myers web site. It will likely be nearly as inexpensive to insure as my NmG (~$260/year) and here in CA always have access to HOV lanes. If you're not in CA, you can still get one anywhere in the continental US, no regional restrictions. The folks in Ohio have been driving their RWD NmG's in the snow, for three winters now, with no issues to remark on other than 'easy on the throttle' which applies no matter what your power source is. My energy consumption is about 147Wh/mi in a 6.8 mile mixed street/freeway commute and about 171Wh/mi on a mostly freeway (HOV lane at 65mph) 14 mile commute (opposite direction of daily flow). Of course I'm running on LA batteries and the Duo uses Li-ion; I don't know if the Duo is more or less aerodynamic than my NmG, or what its curb weight is (NmG is 1350lbs) either. As a Beta Tester, I bet you'll have access to the specs before anyone else, so YOU can fill the forum in on what Myers comes up with.

:happy0025:

[aptera1213]

thanks nmg....the duo is certainly still in the mix for me...

i like the responsibility of being a beta tester...i like that they have "wheels on the road."

i like cheap insurance ;)

if in the summer of 2010 i could have either the duo or the th!nk, i would probably grab the th!nk just because it seems more complete...that said, i can't grab a th!nk this summer...so the duo is clearly ahead at this point...

i still have some time and thinking to do...

and i haven't given up on the aptera yet either...but it gets harder each day to keep believing...

[evmavin]

The US Think will have higher performance on the motor specs. The Duo is a cool toy but there is no way In good faith I could recommend it to anyone unless they drop the price to way under $20K. This is based on what I know of the vehicle to date and its drive system, specs, etc. Don't forget, the Think will earn you at least a $7,500 rebate so even if it were $37K it will end up under $30K and you can't compare the components, safety, functionality, drive system, build quality and features. Let's not even talk about service and support or resale value. The Think has over 12 years of proven vehicle history as well. Please don't flame as I like the vehicle but I think that the Duo is WAY overpriced, even for a new EV and it will not prove as a contender in it's price range.

[SlowSRT4]

and you can't compare the components, safety, functionality, drive system, build quality and features. Let's not even talk about service and support or resale value. The Think has over 12 years of proven vehicle history as well.
If these things are important then the Tesla S would be the best choice, although that is a bit more money. But second to that I think the Volt has all those bases covered better than the Th!nk. Now I know many people on this forum dislike the presence of a range extender, but the Volt is still an electric car at heart. It is also hard to deny all the testing and technology that is being packed into the Volt.

If you want something right away, it seems like the Duo would be the quickest option, since you apparently were selected to test it.

If you are willing to wait, then why not get a nice Volt, Aptera, or Tesla S. Cool cars packed with the latest technology. No need to settle for the boxy Th!nk when you can get a much nicer car for perhaps almost the same amount of money. :thumbsup:

[KarenRei]

The 3073lbs figure is only when you fill it with the maximum people/cargo load of 600+ pounds. The car itself is 2300 to 2500 pounds.

Good catch, speculawyer. I just got the 3073 number from a news article, which was clearly quoting the wrong number.

That difference makes the claimed city range of 120 miles more plausible. Still a bit optimistic, I think, but definitely in the ballpark.

[NeilBlanchard]

Both the Tesla S and the Volt are far more expensive than the Th!nk. I also do not want a heavy, big car -- the Volt is 3900 pounds -- and it not an BEV. The Tesla S is about 2X as much as the Th!nk -- it is not in the same universe.

I wonder if the Th!nk will be using a supercapacitor? This can collect up to 48% of the power back through regenerative braking, and unloads the battery up to 56% of the time, which lets the battery stay 53% cooler. (http://www.innovations-report.com/html/reports/automotive/carnegie_mellon_customizing_electric_cars_cost_143 837.html This would greatly enhance it efficiency in city driving, giving more range, and the battery would last longer. The capacitor only has to be about 1/500th the capacity of the battery (~50Wh) to do this.

[SlowSRT4]

Both the Tesla S and the Volt are far more expensive than the Th!nk. I also do not want a heavy, big car -- the Volt is 3900 pounds -- and it not an BEV. The Tesla S is about 2X as much as the Th!nk -- it is not in the same universe.

I wonder if the Th!nk will be using a supercapacitor? This can collect up to 48% of the power back through regenerative braking, and unloads the battery up to 56% of the time, which lets the battery stay 53% cooler. (http://www.innovations-report.com/html/reports/automotive/carnegie_mellon_customizing_electric_cars_cost_143 837.html This would greatly enhance it efficiency in city driving, giving more range, and the battery would last longer. The capacitor only has to be about 1/500th the capacity of the battery (~50Wh) to do this.
"A battery electric vehicle, or BEV, is a type of electric vehicle (EV) that uses chemical energy stored in rechargeable battery packs.
As with other electric vehicles, BEVs use electric motors and motor controllers instead of internal combustion engines (ICEs) for propulsion."
"Hybrid vehicles with batteries that can be charged externally to displace some or all of their internal combustion engine power and gasoline fuel are called plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEV), and are BEVs during their charge-depleting mode."
-Wikipedia

How is the Volt not a BEV? By definition it is. In fact, aptera1213's daily travel is less than 40 miles. He could run the Volt on pure battery most of the time. :aptera:

If he doesn't have other cars I don't see why he wouldn't want a 3900 lbs Volt with plenty of room, advanced technology, comfort, and infinite range. Especially with its low drag and good power/handling. :character0026:

You're right about the Tesla S being in another universe. It costs $42.5k, is pure hotness, and is a friggin' sports car. :fighting0010:

[KarenRei]

Actually, the ~$50k figure is after the tax credit, not before. And that's for the smallest pack option. But yes, it is an impressive vehicle.

[NeilBlanchard]

If you want to never put gas in the Volt's tank, and drive it as a BEV, then that is your choice. But, it is not carrying a 1.4L ICE, a gas tank and cooling system for it, etc., for frivolous reasons. The Volt is a plug-in serial hybrid; not a BEV.

Karen has already addressed the viability of comparing a Tesla S and the Th!nk City. You can probably buy 2 Th!nk City cars for less than the cost of the least expensive Tesla S, since the City will get the same refunds.

And I hope my question about the Th!nk possibly using a supercapacitor or not -- is not missed.

[10.5]

DIY?

http://ecomodder.com/blog/cheap-diy-electric-car/

[evmavin]

If these things are important then the Tesla S would be the best choice, although that is a bit more money. But second to that I think the Volt has all those bases covered better than the Th!nk. Now I know many people on this forum dislike the presence of a range extender, but the Volt is still an electric car at heart. It is also hard to deny all the testing and technology that is being packed into the Volt.

If you want something right away, it seems like the Duo would be the quickest option, since you apparently were selected to test it.

If you are willing to wait, then why not get a nice Volt, Aptera, or Tesla S. Cool cars packed with the latest technology. No need to settle for the boxy Th!nk when you can get a much nicer car for perhaps almost the same amount of money. :thumbsup:


The model S and the Volt are not a comparison to the Duo and Think, the point of these cars is there functionality as city cars. The Think was designed to be a city car, hence the name Think City. And if it has a motor it's not an EV, it has a electric drive system but it is not an EV it is a hybrid. It is electrically driven but not a full electric car. Should be an interesting debate for the diamond lane. If it has a gas tank it is a hybrid powered vehicle.

[aptera1213]

th!nk just got 16.9 million from the government...i hope that helps them speed up the plant set up and job hiring...

if the aptera isn't to be, i might be leaning toward the th!nk...a very nice little city car...and i can fit it and my two scooters on my side of the garage :)

the tesla is beautiful, but a couple of years off...and costs a bit more...

and i don't need that many seats for my commute...

of course in a couple of years it could be my wife's car...so that we have one bigger car in the family...

the duo still is in the running as i can get it soonest....but i need more info...

as for the concern that the duo is more a toy than the rest...well that doesn't bother me as i have two scooters and two bikes as my "cars" right now...i'm use to toys...heck, i like toys...

the th!nk does appear to be a bit more advanced than the duo

i'm not really sure why, but i have no real interest in the volt...

i kinda want small and no gas ever if possible...

as my commuter car i think i can get away with a pure EV...so why add the complexity of the gas and exhaust?

[evmavin]

th!nk just got 16.9 million from the government...i hope that helps them speed up the plant set up and job hiring...

if the aptera isn't to be, i might be leaning toward the th!nk...a very nice little city car...and i can fit it and my two scooters on my side of the garage :)

the tesla is beautiful, but a couple of years off...and costs a bit more...

and i don't need that many seats for my commute...

of course in a couple of years it could be my wife's car...so that we have one bigger car in the family...

the duo still is in the running as i can get it soonest....but i need more info...

as for the concern that the duo is more a toy than the rest...well that doesn't bother me as i have two scooters and two bikes as my "cars" right now...i'm use to toys...heck, i like toys...

the th!nk does appear to be a bit more advanced than the duo

i'm not really sure why, but i have no real interest in the volt...

i kinda want small and no gas ever if possible...

as my commuter car i think i can get away with a pure EV...so why add the complexity of the gas and exhaust?

I also believe Kleiner Perkins still has a huge stake in Think, they are one of the gold standards in the VC industry. The Think is not a bit more advanced than the Duo it is much more frankly, and based on the specs it is still using a DC pump motor with perhaps a Zilla controller which would be the single most advanced and valuable item on board. I believe most of these vehicles will be displaced by small cars like the Think and big manufacturer micro and small vehicles if the demand exists. Just because it's available now does not make it a wise choice:) I'm going to wait even though I have always have had at least one EV and now have none presently. PS- The Think battery compartment seems to have remained the same design for 10 years and it is a very large square box underneath so I would suspect battery upgrades would be simple, I have done it in my garage by myself with a 550lb Nicad Pack.

[SlowSRT4]

I'll probably have a pre-order down on the Duo myself, because that is the only EV available in my area unfortunately.

I'm just saying that because you live in California and are considering waiting maybe a year or two, you have potentially a large selection of EVs to choose from.

But if you don't want to wait an unspecified period of time and are OK with 3-wheelers or so-called "toys", then I think you should plan on a Duo or Arcimoto. If you want a family car, get the Volt.

If you want the Th!nk, you could just as easily get an Aptera, Ford Focus BEV, LEAF, Fiat 500 Electric, or any number of other cars by the time the Th!nk rolls out.

[evmavin]

I'll probably have a pre-order down on the Duo myself, because that is the only EV available in my area unfortunately.

I'm just saying that because you live in California and are considering waiting maybe a year or two, you have potentially a large selection of EVs to choose from.

But if you don't want to wait an unspecified period of time and are OK with 3-wheelers or so-called "toys", then I think you should plan on a Duo or Arcimoto. If you want a family car, get the Volt.

If you want the Th!nk, you could just as easily get an Aptera, Ford Focus BEV, LEAF, Fiat 500 Electric, or any number of other cars by the time the Th!nk rolls out.


You are not limited by your state, and I bet the Think beats Aptera for most in delivery and if it is coming I will cancel my 2e and wait for Aptera to be a proven company with a refined product, the Think is refined and just needs to be delivered at a price that makes sense. That makes one killer city car and good for decent freeway trips then I will wait for the big makers to roll out products. They have them now, I have seen two that have not been seen by the public. Also, keep and eye out for wild cards this year like the Nissan was. This year may be very interesting!

[SlowSRT4]

I also believe Kleiner Perkins still has a huge stake in Think, they are one of the gold standards in the VC industry. The Think is not a bit more advanced than the Duo it is much more frankly, and based on the specs it is still using a DC pump motor with perhaps a Zilla controller which would be the single most advanced and valuable item on board. I believe most of these vehicles will be displaced by small cars like the Think and big manufacturer micro and small vehicles if the demand exists. Just because it's available now does not make it a wise choice:) I'm going to wait even though I have always have had at least one EV and now have none presently. PS- The Think battery compartment seems to have remained the same design for 10 years and it is a very large square box underneath so I would suspect battery upgrades would be simple, I have done it in my garage by myself with a 550lb Nicad Pack.
What is so horrible about DC that any vehicle using it cannot even be considered, even for somebody who uses scooters to commute? You are clearly biased towards the Th!nk for whatever reason.

The Tango uses DC and it is one of the more respected EVs out there, not to mention the fastest. For that matter, have we heard any horror stories about Tango's or NMG's breaking down constantly?

"Controller:
Zilla Z2K motor controller, providing up to 2,000 Amps at 350 Volts (600 kW).
Designed and built by Otmar Ebenhoech at Café Electric LLC in Corvalis, OR.

Motors:
2 Advanced DC FB1-4001 9" motors, one driving each rear wheel with over 1,000 ft-lb of combined torque at low rpms. 8,000 rpm redline. "
-Tango website
:aptera:

My grandpa has a DC golf cart that he has been using consistently for 8 years without a single problem. Only having to replace the lead-acid batteries occasionally.

[SlowSRT4]

You are not limited by your state, and I bet the Think beats Aptera for most in delivery and if it is coming I will cancel my 2e and wait for Aptera to be a proven company with a refined product, the Think is refined and just needs to be delivered at a price that makes sense. That makes one killer city car and good for decent freeway trips then I will wait for the big makers to roll out products. They have them now, I have seen two that have not been seen by the public. Also, keep and eye out for wild cards this year like the Nissan was. This year may be very interesting!
I am not limited by my state? It sure seems like it. Th!nk in Michigan, anytime soon? I highly doubt it. The only EV that I can get in MI in a specified time table is the Duo. Even the Volt won't be available in MI until later. Considering the Volt is made right by my house and I won't even be able to get a crack at that before California, I doubt the Th!nk will miraculously just swoop in out of nowhere. :animal0017:

[evmavin]

What is so horrible about DC that any vehicle using it cannot even be considered, even for somebody who uses scooters to commute? You are clearly biased towards the Th!nk for whatever reason.

The Tango uses DC and it is one of the more respected EVs out there, not to mention the fastest. For that matter, have we heard any horror stories about Tango's or NMG's breaking down constantly?

"Controller:
Zilla Z2K motor controller, providing up to 2,000 Amps at 350 Volts (600 kW).
Designed and built by Otmar Ebenhoech at Café Electric LLC in Corvalis, OR.

Motors:
2 Advanced DC FB1-4001 9" motors, one driving each rear wheel with over 1,000 ft-lb of combined torque at low rpms. 8,000 rpm redline. "
-Tango website
:aptera:

My grandpa has a DC golf cart that he has been using consistently for 8 years without a single problem. Only having to replace the lead-acid batteries occasionally.


Nothing wrong with DC, i have done many DC conversions but I'm not dropping $35K on a three wheeled EV with a ADC motor and no regen. It's about application and price. I would never do another conversion for myself unless it was sealed brushless DC or AC.

Please tell me what "most respected" means when you speak about the Tango? Performance? Sales? Industry contribution? I have driven several of them and they are cool but not worth $120K. They are far too overpriced and have no market past a handful of people. Any competent company can build a great EV for what they invested but the design and build technique is flawed in that it relies on weight to keep it upright which was fine with lead but adding lead makes no sense with lithium and they way it is built is far too costly. It's been years since the Tango was released, another cool "Toy". I"m speaking in terms of marketable vehicles with reasonable sales at reasonable prices. Volume, Volume. And I would rather have a tango with an ACP system as it would weigh so much less and have regen, but be on it's side often.

[SlowSRT4]

Nothing wrong with DC, i have done many DC conversions but I'm not dropping $35K on a three wheeled EV with a ADC motor and no regen. It's about application and price. I would never do another conversion for myself unless it was sealed brushless DC or AC.
Duo is only $22.5k
Arcimoto is likely $18k for lead-acid and $19.5k for li-ion.
:aptera:

[aptera1213]

If you want the Th!nk, you could just as easily get an Aptera, Ford Focus BEV, LEAF, Fiat 500 Electric, or any number of other cars by the time the Th!nk rolls out.


oh the aptera is still the one i want...i'm just not sure when or if it will ever come to be (actually i know a car like the aptera will be made one day, i just have some recent doubts it will be by aptera)...

that said, i dislike the ford focus...if ford made the fiesta into a BEV i would be very interested. i love the look of the fiat 500...if it was electric i would be insanely interested in that too...that said, the fiat 500 EV won't be in the states any time soon as far as i can tell

the leaf is ok, just not my first choice...if it is the only EV out and available i would get it...nissan makes good cars...i'm just not crazy about...but it looks to be a good, solid car

the th!nk interests me because it has years behind it, miles on the road and is getting a big push into the states...and the batteries are made here too...a small, fun commuter car is hard to beat if you are a city driver

but it might be a year or so before we see actual sales in the states...(the upside for you is it will be made in indiana, so it might sell in michigan very quickly...plus it is a car that has driven in norway winters, so it should be fine on Michigan roads)

all in all it is both a good and bad time to be wanting an electric car

good as for the first time ever lots of electric cars seem to be on the horizon
bad because that horizon appears to be constantly shifting...

i've lived without a car for 5 years...i could go a year or two more easily...but age 50 is just around the corner and i probably could use getting into a car when the weather is crap and ice is on the roads

also i want to push EV sales forward asap...which maybe means the duo if i like it...if i don't, i wait a bit and see what is happening with aptera...if aptera seems stuck in neutral like now, i check out the th!nk...if the th!nk doesn't fit my needs, i move to the next thing

it 's good to have options...it's bad that all the options right now are "wait...but maybe soon...but wait"

i hate waiting...i should listen to my Buddhist mother and take to heart her mantra of "be still"...sadly my usual mantra is "buy now and enjoy it sooner"


i will admit that the duo could be a bit of a risk in this way:

if EVs don't take off, then the Duo is a great find. a fun little electric...almost a kit car actually...it will get me about and be fun and get me off gas...

if EVs do take off and every car company has evs out on the road, suddenly the Duo makes a bit less sense (the above will still apply...it will still be fun and get me off of gas, but...) the major companies will likely make better cars with better warrantees and more dealers and repair centers etc etc...the duo will still be original looking and such, but probably won't have as advanced of parts and likely will have less resale valve...

on the plus side, i don't really care about resale valve...i plan to run whatever car i buy into the ground and keep it till it falls apart sometime in 2030...


so my options and eyes are open...i could see owning any one of several cars by this time next year...that is if any are really available...

damn that shifting horizon....

[evmavin]

I am not limited by my state? It sure seems like it. Th!nk in Michigan, anytime soon? I highly doubt it. The only EV that I can get in MI in a specified time table is the Duo. Even the Volt won't be available in MI until later. Considering the Volt is made right by my house and I won't even be able to get a crack at that before California, I doubt the Th!nk will miraculously just swoop in out of nowhere. :animal0017:


I don't see a plant in CA so I guess they will only be selling in Indiana, darn:) Do you think Myers will have good support where you are? I can share some support stories I have witnessed first hand and although they may have good intentions I would like to see their national support strategy.

[NeilBlanchard]

If you are interested in the Th!nk City, then you can sign up on a interest list here:

http://electricaid.ning.com/page/get-me-a-thnk

They are saying the European version has 110 mile range with an uphill speed of 63mph, and that the USA version is expected to have higher specs.

[PatQ562]

Among Th!nk, Duo, Arcimoto - I would put the chances of good service in that order. I have to assume Duo is still belt-powered, the Arcimoto clearly is. Therefore if Think comes out at a similar price, it's a no-brainer as a shaft drive "real" car. Duo gets some credit for production history. Arcimoto is just a prototype although they publish slightly more specs. Neither Duo or Arcimoto gives the critical data (weight, dimensions, battery size, etc) to allow informed judgment. However we don't know the Think pricing, and it's liable to be much higher.

Hate to say it but the sleeper is Triac. They're at or ahead of Think in powertrain and performance, and we've slowly gotten their specs surfaced (2200 lbs weight, 750 lbs battery, struggles to 65 mph, tested range exceeds 100 miles at moderate speeds - all much like the Think CLAIMS). I'd probably rather be in a Think in an accident, but the Triac is showing good results in actual beta testing, and their price is good, and I assume they come from a company with production experience, regardless of our low opinion of the Chinese auto market.

Not that I'm that interested in either Think or Triac really.

The Think may have an edge if backed with real dealer support, but realistically, a purchaser of any of these cars had best be prepared for self-maintenance.

Pat Q

[speculawyer]

If these things are important then the Tesla S would be the best choice, although that is a bit more money.
The Tesla S is vaporware to me until I see them further along.

[speculawyer]

If you want the Th!nk, you could just as easily get an Aptera, Ford Focus BEV, LEAF, Fiat 500 Electric, or any number of other cars by the time the Th!nk rolls out.
Not necessarily. It depends on if they plan on selling any Finland built Thinks in the USA. That factory is up & running now. Just slap in a bigger motor & Enerdels and it is ready for the USA.

And even if they don't sell in the USA until the Elkhardt plant is up & running, that can be done quickly. It only took a few months to get the Finnish assembly line up & running. It would not take much longer in the USA.

[speculawyer]

Even the Volt won't be available in MI until later. Considering the Volt is made right by my house and I won't even be able to get a crack at that before California, I doubt the Th!nk will miraculously just swoop in out of nowhere. :animal0017:

Breaking: Volt May Launch Before November in California, Detroit, and Washington DC

For over two years GM has held to its plan for launching the Chevy Volt in November of this year. But there have been a lot of changes since then including the surprise seizure of the CEO position by Ed Whitacre. Whitacre spoke to the Detroit Press about the Chevy Volt and his eagerness to get the car into consumers hands.

“I wish it were on the market today,” he said. “We’re going to push as hard as we can to get this vehicle out there. It’s a complicated process.”

Whitacre also said he expected the car to cost consumers $32,000 after tax breaks.

He suggested a significant motivation for building the Volt at least in his eyes, is for the environment.

“This is a bold journey for us. We want to do this for the environment. … We think this is part of the future for us,” he told the reporter. “We’re putting a lot at risk here, but we’re going to do it.”

Earlier reports suggested that Whitacre and the board have been pushing to beginning selling the Volt earlier than the long cited November timeframe, as long as quality measures can be achieved.

The new goal according to anonymous sources: late September or October.

Whitacre has also been surprised by what its like driving the Volt

“I was prepared for something like a golf cart. This is no golf cart,” he told the Press. “This is very powerful, a lot of acceleration, it feels really solid and it goes fast. It’s a very impressive car.”

The first three markets the Volt will be sold have now been revealed.

“The first markets that we anticiapte retail sales will be California and Michigan,” Lauckner told Autoline Detroit last week.

According to the Detroit Press the third region will be Washington DC.


http://gm-volt.com/2010/01/10/volt-may-launch-before-november-in-california-detroit-and-washington-dc/

[aptera1213]

well the new focus is coming in 2011...and it looks much nicer than the last model (which was dog ugly)...

http://green.autoblog.com/2010/01/11/detroit-2010-ford-reveals-new-focus-hybrid-and-phev-coming-in/


it looks a bit big and heavy for an EV...but i will move it into the EVs i would be willing to own...

now lets just see who gets out first with a good EV and they will be getting my moneys...

:)


....i usually prefer a hatchback over a sedan...but the focus sedan is pretty sexy...

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/01/11/2011-ford-focus-unveiled-u-s-and-euro-models-finally-unite/

[SlowSRT4]

well the new focus is coming in 2011...and it looks much nicer than the last model (which was dog ugly)...

http://green.autoblog.com/2010/01/11/detroit-2010-ford-reveals-new-focus-hybrid-and-phev-coming-in/


it looks a bit big and heavy for an EV...but i will move it into the EVs i would be willing to own...

now lets just see who gets out first with a good EV and they will be getting my moneys...

:)


....i usually prefer a hatchback over a sedan...but the focus sedan is pretty sexy...

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/01/11/2011-ford-focus-unveiled-u-s-and-euro-models-finally-unite/
One of the articles mentioned that the EV Focus may be offered in the hatchback configuration as well.

Anyway, the Focus looks great, better than what I was expecting. :thumbsup:

[evmavin]

One of the articles mentioned that the EV Focus may be offered in the hatchback configuration as well.

Anyway, the Focus looks great, better than what I was expecting. :thumbsup:


Ford product design seems to be getting better and better lately.