Wheego Whip LiFe ... 65 mph

[Dolphyn]

DC 2010: Wheego unveils high-speed Whip, looks a lot like the LSV
http://green.autoblog.com/2010/01/26/dc-2010-wheego-unveils-high-speed-whip-looks-a-lot-like-the-ls/

Batteries: 28 kWh, 108 V lithium iron (LiFe)
Speed: 65 mph
Range: 100 miles "real world"
Price: Under $35,000 (before incentives)
spec sheet (http://green.autoblog.com/gallery/dc-2010-wheego-whip-life/full/#27) (what? no cupholder details?)

http://www.blogcdn.com/green.autoblog.com/media/2010/01/whip-life-2010-630.jpg

[Apt3448]

This one just sounded too funny: 'Speaking of this particular body style, regular readers will remember that the Whip is a modified Shuanghuan Noble. Seagraves said that the Wheego team in Atlanta has made "over 100" changes to the body and chassis and therefore "it's ours now."'

It also mentioned that crash testing this -eh- contraption costs the company about 2.5$ mil.

Their production schedule is very optimistic, to say the least.

[NeilBlanchard]

Oh boy, a Smart clone EV before a Smart 'ED'! <--- Dumbest name choice I can think of...

[SEGsby]

So, this is a Chimerican G-Wiz?

[chris22104]

Anyone know the weight?

[Apt3448]

According to the spec sheet: "Dry weight: 2435 Lbs" Rather heavy for such a small thingy. Includes battery, and apparently the weight can go up when it rains?? Never understood those measurements. Occasionally you will see 'curb weight'. As if I care about the local pavement!?

[PatQ562]

For once I have no complaints about a sparse spec sheet - it's all there in the link. Weight with batteries 2435 lbs. 28kWh battery pack (108V, 260Ah nominal), takes "8-10 hrs" to gain a 60-70% recharge (must either use more than standard 15A-120V service, or they limit the DOD to about 18-20kWhr). A somewhat confusing spec says "dual charger, 18A" which could pertain to the somewhat uncommon 20A/120V plug. Uses an "AC 50" motor, nominal 20HP, 60HP peak. Has typical mod cons for those liking their conveniences.

Pat Q

[Dolphyn]

Oh boy, a Smart clone EV before a Smart 'ED'! For what it's worth, the Wheego is about 20 inches longer and a few inches wider than a smart fortwo.

[SEGsby]

Still too small to put a cello in the back. :(


For what it's worth, the Wheego is about 20 inches longer and a few inches wider than a smart fortwo.

[SlowSRT4]

Still too small to put a cello in the back. :(
Or a zebra's head. :biggrin:

(Top Gear Ford Fiesta reference) :tongue0006:

[SEGsby]

I must have missed that episode...

Ah, here it is. Thanks for letting me know about it. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Zy78tFPQwQ

I dig the Epic Lisa Gerrard / DCD Music when they introduce it...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisa_Gerrard

[Dolphyn]

Ah, here it is. Thanks for letting me know about it. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Zy78tFPQwQ
Well, that was certainly interesting, and Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYIyCmcuQno) is even weirder than Part 1. "The smoke grenades fit perfectly in the cupholders" ... Yikes!

[palmer_md]

It looks like Wheego is getting close to being first out the gate. The pricing is about the same as the Leaf, so I think that puts them behind he 8ball, but with the look of a smart car they may be able to meet their target of 2000 per year. It seems like their start-up plan is how Aptera should have planned start-up with their car. I hope this car is successful as it will certainly help get Flux batteries up and running.



http://industry.bnet.com/auto/10004869/wheegos-ev-may-be-first-out-of-the-gate/

[Dolphyn]

Wheego.net (http://wheego.net) is accepting reservations now. They promise (http://green.autoblog.com/2010/06/15/wheego-now-accepting-pre-orders-for-32-995-life-electric-car/), "everyone who makes a reservation will be driving their car before the end of the year." I'll be impressed if they achieve that!

[SEGsby]

I wish them the best of success. :)

[NeilBlanchard]

I hope the car is excellent, and I know about Chris Anthony's involvement. I just wish that the chassis was not an obvious Smart car knockoff.

[SlowSRT4]

I hope the car is excellent, and I know about Chris Anthony's involvement. I just wish that the chassis was not an obvious Smart car knockoff.
Like the Toyota iQ?

[NeilBlanchard]

I know the iQ is similar, and is even an homage to the Smart -- but the similarities are in form only. The Wheego is "styled" like the Smart, and looks much closer -- I dunno. The Wheego rubs me the wrong way, while the iQ betters the Smart (more seats, front wheel drive, better crash tests...)

[evnow]

Wheego.net (http://wheego.net) is accepting reservations now. They promise (http://green.autoblog.com/2010/06/15/wheego-now-accepting-pre-orders-for-32-995-life-electric-car/), "everyone who makes a reservation will be driving their car before the end of the year." I'll be impressed if they achieve that!

Here is their update ...

When the chassis comes to us from China, it's just a sled that we reinforced for safety to pass crash-testing– then in our US assembly plant we add the transmission, motor, batteries, wiring, and controller (which are all US-made), as well as all the software that ties the components together.

Hmmm ... why not make the chassis here too..

Anyway, what is their USP vis-a-vis Leaf - it is smaller than Leaf ? I think the small EVs now need to either undercut Leaf or have a sporty design or better range.

[NeilBlanchard]

http://www.greencarreports.com/blog/1051812_2011-wheego-whip-life-electric-car-first-drive-report

They will beat the Leaf -- only just! The drive report is not particularly flattering, though.

[SlowSRT4]

http://www.greencarreports.com/blog/1051812_2011-wheego-whip-life-electric-car-first-drive-report

They will beat the Leaf -- only just! The drive report is not particularly flattering, though.
Seems like the Fiat 500 EV is still the a-segment EV to beat.

How can these tiny EVs that cost over 30k, and feel like really cheap cars, possibly succeed in the marketplace? I'm not sure that the first-mover advantage will be enough, even if they are ahead by a year, much less a week or two.

[PatQ562]

I cannot tell a lie - I put my $100 down some months ago, which allegedly puts me in the first 100 customers.
PRO:
--Wheego's attitude is notably different than Aptera and most other "sensational" startups. Wheego is deliberately staying under the radar until they have actual product to ship. This is supposed to occur within weeks.
--The office has been reasonably responsive to my follow-up emails unlike Aptera.
--They claim to have gotten NHSTA certification "with only a few minor changes required".
--They have been sending regular monthly newsletters. The latest one showed dozens of vehicles being assembled at the Fontana plant.
--The battery is a 115V, 260AH, 30kWh pack provided thru Flux Power, run by one of the ex-Aptera founders (Chris Anthony). The motor is presumably an Azure or similar, 20HP continuous, 60HP peak, geared to top out at 65mph (the review now claims 70). There is something to be said for this "medium voltage" system - there are only about 32 large batteries which simplifies BMS and is 2/3 fewer cells to hook up and worry about.
--And at least they're TRYING to drum up business at the LA Car Show, although their attempt to take advantage of President Obama's promise to buy the first 100 electric cars to be delivered in the USA apparently met with a big "Huh?"
CON:
--The car is "not light" at 2600 lbs, and "not very streamlined" so it only gets about 100 mi range on its relatively massive 30kWh pack. The size of the pack gives confidence that 100 miles should be reliably possible if driven gently, but such large packs take a LONG time to recharge - 8+ hours at 3.3kW, 240V, and a full 24 hrs on 120V.
--The company is slow to update their web site and has yet to announce a Southern California dealer.
--The review notes a loud electric whine, which according to Wheego is a "feature", not a flaw. HMM.
PRO/CON
--The Chinese-built Noble Motors "glider" that gets the electricals installed apparently has mediocre build quality, but at least one supposes that the platform has seen some actual use in China and the wheels probably won't fall off right away. However I have gotten no answer (predictably) to my request to know far the most-tested vehicle has been driven.
--60HP peak in a 2600lb car promises rather tepid performance, about half that of the EV1, which puts it in RAV4-EV territory. However the reviewer said they got a bit of wheelspin in cornering, so maybe there's a bit of scoot, but it sounds like it's a stretch to even call it "sprightly".
--It's only 2 seats, but there is more rear cargo room than a Smart, and it will be LOTS easier to park than an Aptera.
SO:
I await the call to take my test drive. More will be revealed. If it doesn't completely suck, I may buy one just to see how it works.
Pat Q

[NeilBlanchard]

There are at least 2 other cars in this size class: the Th!nk City, and the Scion iQ EV.

The Th!nk City will probably be first to market, and it is likely to have to best range, too. I really like the spunky iQ, as well -- it seats 3 tall adults, and it probably has the best crash survival; with it's 9 air bags.

So, the competition in the 2+ seat cars is going to be quite interesting, I think.

[SlowSRT4]

There are at least 2 other cars in this size class: the Th!nk City, and the Scion iQ EV.

The Th!nk City will probably be first to market, and it is likely to have to best range, too. I really like the spunky iQ, as well -- it seats 3 tall adults, and it probably has the best crash survival; with it's 9 air bags.

So, the competition in the 2+ seat cars is going to be quite interesting, I think.
The iQ EV aka the FT-EV?

http://jalopnik.com/5375327/toyota-ft+ev-ii-concept-weirdo-electric-daily-driver

I also found this more recent article, which states that it will have a range of 65 miles:
http://gas2.org/2010/11/22/toyota-ev-fleet-to-expand-with-electric-iq-in-2012/

[NeilBlanchard]

I don't think they will base it on that car (which is drive by wire!) -- the earlier version is essentially a converted iQ, and they originally mentioned a 90 mile range. I agree a 65 mile range is too low.

[SlowSRT4]

I don't think they will base it on that car (which is drive by wire!) -- the earlier version is essentially a converted iQ, and they originally mentioned a 90 mile range. I agree a 65 mile range is too low.
Aren't most cars these days drive by wire? And as far as I'm aware, the FT-EV is just the prototype name for the iQ EV (who knows what the final name will end up being). But they seem to both refer to the same car. As with most cars, I would expect the production version to not be as radical as the FT-EV II concept. It will probably be somewhere between that concept and the traditional iQ.

The older article I linked actually mentioned a 60 mile range. The 2-day old article however says 65 miles. It does seem low when most other competitors seem to be hitting 100 at the least.

Also, the 60 mph top speed means it is more of a competitor to the wheego. Of course the THINK isn't drastically more powerful with its top speed of 70 mph. But the Fiat 500 EV is supposed to have a top speed of 90 mph.

[evmavin]

Aren't most cars these days drive by wire? And as far as I'm aware, the FT-EV is just the prototype name for the iQ EV (who knows what the final name will end up being). But they seem to both refer to the same car. As with most cars, I would expect the production version to not be as radical as the FT-EV II concept. It will probably be somewhere between that concept and the traditional iQ.

The older article I linked actually mentioned a 60 mile range. The 2-day old article however says 65 miles. It does seem low when most other competitors seem to be hitting 100 at the least.

Also, the 60 mph top speed means it is more of a competitor to the wheego. Of course the THINK isn't drastically more powerful with its top speed of 70 mph. But the Fiat 500 EV is supposed to have a top speed of 90 mph.


Think limits speed for efficiency.

[NeilBlanchard]

My understanding is that Toyota concept was steering by wire...

The other article you linked to is a converted iQ, for all intents and purposes.

Here's an earlier report:

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/07/29/report-electric-toyota-iq-to-get-bespoke-body/

[PatQ562]

The Th!nk City will probably be first to market, and it is likely to have to best range, too. I really like the spunky iQ, as well -- it seats 3 tall adults, and it probably has the best crash survival; with it's 9 air bags.
I was under the impression these cars were still "coming in two years". Wheego is supposed to deliver this December - racing to beat Volt and Leaf for what that's worth.
The "seats 3 tall adults", however, would be a valid advantage for iQ.
Pat Q

[NeilBlanchard]

The Wheego LiFe gets another pan:

http://green.autoblog.com/2010/11/24/la-2010-driving-the-wheego-whip-life-the-electric-car-from-an/

Driving the LiFe

Presenting a different, friendlier side of the company was President Jeff Boyd, who rode with us during a quick spin around the LA Convention Center in the LiFe. The car's 30-kWh lithium-iron battery (from where the car gets its name, from the chemical symbols Li and Fe) gives a solid center of gravity to the car, but you can't get past the cheap look and finish of the interior on the production model we drove. The vinyl seats we suitable, but not extermely comfortable. The production model we drove was also a little noisy, especially when we stepped on the go pedal. Boyd said customers enjoy the sounds. "They want to hear the car go," he said, "they like some feedback. They want some whirr or some sound on acceleration. So we left that in by design."

The LiFe has three transmission modes: normal, sport (which bumps the motor controller to work at 650 amps instead of 550, which in turn raises the 0-30 acceleration rate by around 25 percent) and eco mode that extends range. The car also has four-wheel, anti-lock breaks, tire pressure monitoring system and regenerative breaking. The brakes felt soft, which is, again, something Boyd said customers wanted. They didn't like the firmer, grippier regen the car had earlier, he said, so the engineers toned it down. The car does creep at up to three mph and acceleration – in any mode – is decent but nothing to write home about. Boyd said the creep was put in there to make driving the LiFe as similar as possible to driving a standard gasoline vehicle. Other things to note are a dash that is dominated by a bright LCD screen that is easily visible in strong sunlight and the car's small size, which means it's a fine urban performer – as anyone who's handled a slightly smaller Fortwo can attest.

Our short drive wasn't enough to give a full recommendation or review, but sometimes one spin around the block is all you need. This is going to be a tough sell, given the other plug-in vehicles available in the very near future. Boyd said he's willing to let the market to decide which electric car is right for people and doesn't concede any advantages to his competitors just yet. It won't be long before we will all see what those results are.

[Emphasis is mine]

[SlowSRT4]

I was under the impression these cars were still "coming in two years". Wheego is supposed to deliver this December - racing to beat Volt and Leaf for what that's worth.
The "seats 3 tall adults", however, would be a valid advantage for iQ.
Pat Q
This report claims the THINK City will launch in Q2 2011:

http://www.automotive-fleet.com/Channel/Green-Fleet/News/Story/2010/11/THINK-City-Car-Coming-to-U-S-in-2011.aspx?interstitial=1

But it says that it will be a 2-seater and weigh 2200 lbs. On Jay Leno, I believe the THINK representative claimed under 2000 lbs and that it would be a 4-seater for the US.

[NeilBlanchard]

I always thought it was a 4 seater, but maybe the rear seat is optional? I thought they have fleet vehicles coming this year, or Q1 next year? They are doing the same sort of "10 (or so) city" first release like the Leaf, I think.

[NeilBlanchard]

Another pan of the Wheego LiFE, unfortunately.

http://green.autoblog.com/2010/12/13/video-green-overdrive-tests-wheego-whip-life/

She calls it "janky"...

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/janky

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Janky

[PatQ562]

The CEO was visibly flummoxed by the question "why would anyone buy this instead of the Leaf?" (Wheego being equal if not higher in price), gathered his wits, and tap danced around the issue by asserting that both cars have an unfilled market space to move into, but it's the right question (ditto for Aptera). The Wheego would make a lot more sense as a $20K vehicle, but not so much at $36K (when nicely equipped). The auto magazines are incredibly spoiled by all the "perfectly nice" cars that don't make noise and take bumps smoothly, but their point is well taken - why should customers put up with primitive construction and cramped cabin at near-luxury pricing? The amount of noise doesn't sound bad on the video relative to her voice but she was wearing a lapel mic, so it is probably worse than the recording. At least the nature of the noise sounds fairly purposeful, rather than the dentist-drill whine the EV1 tended to give off. No remarks at all regarding throttle response, brake feel, and steering response, which are all top questions in my mind for a fun-to-drive vehicle.
I'm supposed to get my test drive in a few more weeks.
Pat Q

[palmer_md]

Another pan of the Wheego LiFE, unfortunately.


Ouch. That's got to hurt.

[Jack5297]

Once the novelty of these "toy" cars wears off, they sit on the lot. We have a dealer in Sacramento who cannot sell a used Smart car.

[shotgunslade]

I always wondered why these cars were Smart. They are quite small, but their gas mileage, while good, was not remarkable.

[NeilBlanchard]

It's the USA models of Smart that are so mediocre -- the diesel version in Canada gets 70MPG US.

[PatQ562]

Once the novelty of these "toy" cars wears off, they sit on the lot.
The purchaser of a Wheego (or an Aptera for that matter) had best be prepared to own it for life, however long (or short) that may be.
Pat Q

[NeilBlanchard]

http://blogs.wsj.com/drivers-seat/2011/01/04/wheego-electric-car-gets-epa-approval/

[PatQ562]

Automotive News quotes Wheego's statement that they have received Federal approval to sell cars, are building their first 500, for delivery end of March, through 35 dealers. If sales support it, they can produce up to 60,000 annually in their Ontario Calif plant (using China-built vehicle and Flux Power batteries). Car is (over)priced at $33,995. If only "Aptera" was shown in place of "Wheego" in this announcement...I also see they have opened a Long Beach dealer, who presumably serves my vicinity.
Pat Q

[SEGsby]

Saw one at the LA Auto Show in 2010.

Would never buy one.

[PatQ562]

I want to drive one before writing them off. It would have to be very impressive or unexpectedly sincere, which is unlikely given the reports to date. Assets include a larger-than-normal battery pack and small urban-size footprint (works for me in crowded SoCal). The car may be China-built but at least the manufacturer has actual experience. Drawbacks include barely acceptable freeway performance, mediocre efficiency, long recharge times, and the usual risks of a startup, and it's not objectively worth the price. As with several other contenders, they have missed their chance to be first on the block, and now they must compete with the big boys.
Pat Q

[SlowSRT4]

They have approximately a year and a half free and clear until THINK City, Scion iQ EV, Fiat 500 EV, and Smart ForTwo ED are all available for retail.

[PatQ562]

But they have the Leaf and Volt in their price range, and objectively, it's hard to place Wheego in this class. Still, they might be the first new EV I can actually get a test drive in. But I think they're dreamin' unless they can drop the price into the low $20K range (BEFORE subsidy). Objectively, a car with this performance and seating is worth no more than $15K, tops, out the door.
Pat Q

[SlowSRT4]

I agree it is priced too high, and not at all competitive with the Leaf and Volt from a value standpoint.

However, for some cases, the Whip doesn't compete with either one. Certain people will be specifically looking for an A-segment vehicle, and won't even consider mainstream C-segment vehicles like the Leaf and Volt.

With the A-segment EV competition not arriving in force until late 2012, Wheego at least has some breathing room. Though I'm guessing most people wouldn't pull the trigger on the Whip LiFe. They would probably wait for the competition to arrive rather than buy a car of dubious value, when a vehicle purchase is a significant investment.

[Stunt Driver]

I assume this little ugly car will grab entusiast's money first, and then drop the price, assuming they get into volume pricing for components. Otherwise i don't see it selling.
Rented Smart for 2 once in UK for a week, but returned it back in 2 days, as it was my worst rental experience. Got mazda 3 instead, and was happy-happy.

[NeilBlanchard]

http://www.allcarselectric.com/blog/1059281_wheego-ceo-says-electric-car-company-survives-hand-to-mouth

[shotgunslade]

Want one? Get it on eBay now for $14,995. See my post in the Myers Motors thread.

[NeilBlanchard]

More bad news for Wheego:
http://green.autoblog.com/2011/05/02/in-germany-daimler-crushes-a-wheego-ev-in-defense-of-intellectu/

[danieloneil01]

That's a lot of dough for that. And I thought the Volt was over priced