Lifespan of the aptera and recyclability?

[LeeW]

While the Aptera may produce low emissions while it is running, I'm wondering what will happen to it when it reaches the end of it's useful life.
My dad scrapped a car about a year ago after 17 years of use and 160,000 miles mainly due to severe rust and body rot. It was mostly made from steel which could be recycled. As far as I know, conventional glass fiber / carbon fiber and epoxy/polyester based composites cannot be recycled and the only place for products made from those materials at the end of their life is the landfill. Will there be anyway an Aptera could be recycled?
Also while composites do not rust or corrode like steel, will they degrade or wear out with use in any other way or should an Aptera body last forever? What about the life of the batteries and drivetrain components?

[KarenRei]

Composite panels cannot be fully recycled, although there is a limited market. For example, a number of laptops nowadays use a "carbon fiber" casing that's made from chopped, recycled carbon fiber. It's not nearly as strong as normal carbon fiber due to the shorter fiber lengths, but it's still stronger than straight plastic. I also ran into this recently:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_hb5260/is_200607/ai_n20378195

Not sure of the applicability to other composites, like fiberglass and kevlar, or how economical it'd be for them.

As to what can be recycled, aluminum, which makes up most of the frame, is probably the easiest material on Earth to recycle -- you just melt it. It saves something like 95% of the energy of making new aluminum and loses none of its strength in the process. There's also some structural steel in the Aptera, and that will recycle as well. In the interior, we know that the floor is made of recycled plastic bottles, and there are other recycled materials; not sure how well these would re-recycle (I understand plastics typically degrade a bit when you recycle them). Beyond that, at this point, I think only the designers could comment on the recycleability of the rest of the vehicle.

[a2b.sustainably]

Karen,

Fiber glass is not recyclable. Glass fibers just gum up the works when you try to burn off the resin (unlike carbon fiber which can be reclaimed). Since we've established that there is very little carbon fiber in Aptera, it appears (sadly) that most of the Aptera will end up in a landfill.

Is the Aluminum "frame" bonded or welded? Welded is not as strong or light, so I'd say bonded is likely. How economical will it be for someone to clean thermoset resin off of the Aluminum just so it can be recycled? Anyone know?

The Aptera is a giant leap forward in a lot of ways. I'd like to hear what they plan on doing at the end of the vehicles life. The EU has said that landfill is not a good answer (EC Directive 2000/53) and I think that most readers here would agree.

Who wouldn't prefer an Aptera made from natural fiber (flax, hemp, jute, sisal) composites?

[Rat]

Who wouldn't prefer an Aptera made from natural fiber (flax, hemp, jute, sisal) composites?
Me, probably. We are very good recyclers in our household and I thoroughly approve of the sentiment, but I am afraid of letting the tail wag the dog. The big contribution of Aptera here is making a mainstream, affordable EV to get us off the petroleum addiction. I think trying to do too much using esoteric (or shall we say less practical or economic in the sense that other car mfrs. haven't seen them to be suitable) materials just to be a tad greener and thereby adding expense, or less comfort, etc. could interfere with that main goal. I'm in favor of making the car for the mass market, not us greenlings on the forum. We'll be contributing a lot more to the environment by getting the neighbors who care nothing about recycling to buy one than we would by using a hemp body or whatever. I am reminded of the 4P's: don't let Pursuit of Perfection Prevent the Possible.

[KarenRei]

Karen,

Fiber glass is not recyclable. Glass fibers just gum up the works when you try to burn off the resin (unlike carbon fiber which can be reclaimed). Since we've established that there is very little carbon fiber in Aptera, it appears (sadly) that most of the Aptera will end up in a landfill.

A quick search reveals dozens of techniques for recycling glass fiber composites. But the main problem seems to be summed up in this article from Composites World:

http://www.compositesworld.com/columns/carbon-fiber-composite-recycling-an-industry-perspective.aspx

"Glass fiber composites exist in greater volume than carbon parts. While we can recycle glass, the recyclate is not commercially viable due to the already low price for virgin material and the fact that no bulk end-use market yet exists that can accommodate recycled material in the quantity likely to be available. The industry must resolve this issue as well."

Good points you're raising, though. I wouldn't expect that level of detail from them, however, until they're actively marketing.

[roflwaffle]

Seeing as the closest LEV shell is the all Al one from the old Insight, and is pretty pricey, I'll be more than willing to buy (intact) shells off of people if they're concerned about recycling. :D

[a2b.sustainably]

While natural fibres do have some issues (usually associated with moisture), these problems are not insurmountable. The auto industry in Europe, due to the previously mentioned regulation, is increasingly using natural fibres in non-structural ways, especially in interior components.

The better question to ask is "why doesn't the auto industry put more effort into using composites (natural fibre or otherwise) for structural or body panel use?" Big auto is tooled for massive, steel based, roboticized assembly lines, and moving away from an investment like that is hard to do. Composites require a different business model.

Natural fibres are (or can be) cost effective (on a strength to weight to cost analysis), so I don't think this is the issue.

I guess I am saying that just because big auto isn't doing it doesn't mean it isn't viable. Aptera is a prime example of this.

You are right to say that the use of natural fibre composites would be perfection: A car that can be converted into energy at the end of life rather than requiring energy to be recycled (or ending up in the landfill). You are also right in saying it would have been a step too far for Aptera, as they are taking a huge leap as it is.

Aptera is headed in the right direction. Just thinking about the next step...