EV World Test Drive: Toyota Prius PHV

[Matthijs]

Bm2jC3wxh6s
Link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bm2jC3wxh6s)

[scottsim]

Do wish they designed the production plug-in to have a larger battery pack, and maybe 220 recharging option at a minimum.

The only advantage I see over what I have in my Prius is that the transitions between EV and hybrid are more automatic. I get similar mileage, probably for longer, though the speed in pure EV mode is limited to 52pmh.

http://smilingdogsranch.com/priusblog

[SlowSRT4]

Just doesn't seem like that good of a balance to me. Who would want to be plugging in a vehicle all the time for only 14 miles of electric range, and even then it will need to go back to hybrid mode frequently in order to get enough power.

The Volt will certainly cost more, but it would definitely be worth the extra money. A 40 mile all-electric range with a max speed of 100 mph is very reasonable. Otherwise it would make a lot more sense to just get a regular Prius.

[Mesuge]

You can go 70mph EVmode on the previous gen Prius with the aftermarket kit, obviously the accel. might suck at places up to this higher limit because the drivetrain has been beefed up ~(50->60kw) afterwards for the current product generation.

[SlowSRT4]

You can go 70mph EVmode on the previous gen Prius with the aftermarket kit, obviously the accel. might suck at places up to this higher limit because the drivetrain has been beefed up ~(50->60kw) afterwards for the current product generation.
Well in the video he was saying you could only go about 52 mph on flat ground before it switches to hybrid mode.

[Mesuge]

I think it's either a bad audio, or he ran into incline, the official specs for the OEM plugin say 100km/h top speed, which is ~62mph. The 70mph I did mention, related to previous generation with smaller motor 50kW (and in lighter vehicle) via aftermarket software hack, which allows these speeds without damaging the MG1-MG2 and ICE interplay. I think this hack has not been released for the recent Prius model yet, but it will be likely done again.

In terms of PHEV options-kits, there are even very rudimentary "dumb" hacks available like the "Enginer system kit" which boost with added PHEV 48V pack (via ordinary inverter in parallel) the stock (NiMH) hybrid pack, no ECU changes and advanced tweaks, it's cheap, however relatively energy inefficent (80-90% inverter x 70-80% DoD batt.), inntially the 48V inverter seemed rather failure prone in automotive duty. It's instal labor non-intensive and potentialy dangerous as you don't control the power flows. Basically what it does, it assumes the robustness of the OEM design and piggybacks on it via rushing in more electricty in paralleling fashion. But it is possible to improve it by adding at least some temp and current sensors and cut offs. The mounting position of LiFePO4 is also not optimal/recommended in their kit: http://www.enginer.us/products/conversion_kit.php http://priuschat.com/forums/prius-phev-plug-in-modifications/66164-people-who-have-purchased-enginer-plug-in-hybrid-electric-vehicle-conversion-kit-10.html#post1090911

However in case top current batts like A123prismatics fall in price even further, this would be a no brainer, even with the eff. loss (but fast recharge) = tradeoff, and say upto PHEV15-20mi would be pretty affordable across the board, i.e. significantly bellow the official Toyota OEM PHEV pricing.

Currently, honest PHEV20/40blended aka ~5kWh A123prismatic addon, enginer diy kit (box) or similar, 48V/230V 3kW (5kW upgraded) dc/dc, some use 2x in parallel, BMS for the pack and charger, could be sourced and self assembled say for <$4.5k. It could be possible to go fancy (another $2-3k depending on ultra/-fast charger) with smallish water cooling system for even ultra fast charging, add optional 70mph EV mode (short bursts though), armcortex-carputer for BMS display etc. Definately beating the price of Toyota with +/- similar effect and bit longer range and fast recharge. However, with the basic 3kW converter-2-NiMH pack, this is mostly city traffic oriented solution or blended mode stuff aimed application (90~mpg for 40mi). This would do wonders with low-mid-segment fullhybrids Toyota planned to have and didn't deliver in the end, think Yaris PHEV25 city runabout.

Hm, the ultra fast charging makes it in fact pretty appealing for certain freaks, especially if taken off-the vehicle due to weight/space/reliability considerations, think midpoint home & office garage. This can push it into 2 x 20mi (aka competing with E-REVs) with one short recharging stop and perhaps even more through-out the whole day, not applicable in the U.S. with not much common high current plugs-infrustructure, lol, finally something to think about as euro advantage, "RVs" 230V/16A everywhere and "industrial" 400V@16/32A not uncommon either (for sub 30min "ultra-fast" recharge).. The only bugger is there are 5:1 less Prius around and zero incentives on PHEV kits, but you don't have to mess with the dash and cabling as the evmode button is already there on the non-US Prius, during the install, another small plus ..

[LTLFTcomposite]

Just doesn't seem like that good of a balance to me. Who would want to be plugging in a vehicle all the time for only 14 miles of electric range, and even then it will need to go back to hybrid mode frequently in order to get enough power.

The Volt will certainly cost more, but it would definitely be worth the extra money. A 40 mile all-electric range with a max speed of 100 mph is very reasonable. Otherwise it would make a lot more sense to just get a regular Prius.

I agree although it isn't totally uninteresting if it was only a small incremental cost over a regular Prius. 4kWh sounds less ambitious from a cost standpoint. Is this variation something Toyota has announced prices and dates/plans to produce?

You can see tons of confusion coming in the mass market with all these hybrid variations.

[SlowSRT4]

I thought they were going to product it in 2012 or so. Probably won't be announcing pricing anytime soon.

[LTLFTcomposite]

I thought they were going to product it in 2012 or so. Probably won't be announcing pricing anytime soon.

...making them quite lame.

Just like everything else coming out of Toyota these days.

[Mesuge]

I think the Toyota's PHEV12.5 is a very good system on the 3rd gen Prius with 62mph top speed EV mode, but unless they switch their entire HSD fleet into Lithium from NiMH en masse, which they "promised to do" but it takes a while and it's going to remain low volume production short-term, hence expensive/uncompetetive..

In the meantime the efficiency of DC/DC converters and their power density goes up, quality high current capable prismatics like A123 are leaking to diyers, in total very much favorable situation to cheap boost type of PHEV kits like the enginer system. So unless Toyota mass produces the PHEV thing, tough luck.

[Mesuge]

Prolly, the best thread on affordable PHEV diy charging: slow (&balancing), expedient and fast, visited by practionaires. Both onboard and offboard installations discussed here (mind you not Insight system exclusive talk), some examples of industrial grade stuff too, e.g. this puppy is 8kW/8-channel with tester functions, charger only would be fraction of the price though, check the internals fotos:
http://www.insightcentral.net/forums/156660-post234.html

So, in our previous example, Enginer kit and such based on high current batt. chemistry in ~5kWh pack (incl. the stock Panasonic NiMH PHEV/HybridInterfaces *method), you can fit either with 8-channel (modules) 48V@ ~7-9A single phase maxEU (A123) or Mike's 4x48V+350&700mA dual rate mode (or even as higher current 1.05-1.4A more/bigger CC in parallel) each per addded OEM NiMH pack version. Which is ~4kW combined for ~hour and something charge time (A123 method), for less expense than fancy single chargers in this output category. I doubt bigger stuff (ultra fast charger) will sneak in the trunk, obviously it could be sitting in there as luggage, but standalone offboard unit placed in permanent fashion in garage/parking lot would make more sense. Voila, suddenly short distance PHEVs7-20 make much more sense again.. http://www.insightcentral.net/forums/158649-post253.html
http://www.insightcentral.net/forums/161240-post289.html
http://www.insightcentral.net/forums/155317-post226.html <-the begining

http://99mpg.com/Data/resources/downloads/relateddocuments/dual_stage_grid_charger1.pdf
http://www.insightcentral.net/forums/161659-post323.html
on board ~1kW parallel variant (or as 3x 1kW - fast charge ext. rack): http://www.insightcentral.net/forums/161236-post288.html

+rapid charging scheme by MIT, rack (~44kW?): high current Pb battery energy buffer, cooling blower hosed to batt. pack:
http://mit-evt.blogspot.com/2010/03/rapid-charging-electric-motorcycle.html http://mit-evt.blogspot.com/2009/08/feasibility-of-rapidly-charging-evs.html

*perhaps if Nikki prefered the slower variation of this method per each added OEM NiMH pack, plus disconnects (manual/contactor) or beefy copper bus bar for paralleling Y connection and liberal amount of forced air cooling, over crazy Zivan -> entire PHEV-pack charging in the bottom of spare tire cavity, her PHEV Prius wouldn't explode and this whole concept wasn't disqualified in the court of public opinion.. Well, Mike's method is like ~$150 in material per each OEM pack in low speed rate (~5-7hours cheap nightly rate compatible), so in total even cheaper than the Zivan psychokiller. Also it would be advisible let the cells balance under prolonged 350mA exposure during nightly charging regime (as in M. Dabrowski's system), while as per daily driving/faster opportunity charging you can skip the equalizing part, i.e. not aiming for full charge - timer cutoff in advance with some decent overhead and/or first deltaV detection inside the pack = charger shutdown, if the pack was regularly balanced before, this should guarantee reaching relatively high SoC while charging haphazzardly on the road.

So in short, use the OEM NiMH method if you are "blender-moder" only and/or not planning rapid opportunity charging throughout the day or continuous ~5-7hrs pop up charge at work is feasible, the benefit of the system is higher window for regen as it is allowed come back into parallel packs, unlike simple DC/ converter based approaches. Mike's double rate system working on 2-3x added OEMs pack would either have to be put in that leftside trunk cubby. Or ponny-up for two dedicated ext. chargers (2 x 3modules) one for home & second office pluging, oh sweet, ~40km daily commute EV mode covered (or >distance in blended with 2.5L/100km gas economy + e.juice), that all with beaten gen2 Mr. Pious. Otherwise as mentioned, a bit more expensive Enginer-A123setup which allows for rapid charging anytime apart from bigger batt. and less weight advantages, it will perhaps scale up from 5kW converter.

OEM 4x pack inferno, HI's BMS+ kit: http://www.hybridinterfaces.ca/TomsPHEV.html
The major advantage being, that for EVmode HI board fools Prius into sucking upto 40A (9kW) out of parallelized PHEV pack (which is almost 2x more than Enginer style kit does, ~similar as upscale Hymotion kit, not as good as the leader ~20kW/70mph GoldPeak kit though, which ditches the bottlenecking stock OEM pack completely. Price $1k (HI boards), $1-1.5k (3x OEM packs), $500 double rate charger low-speed/7h ~240W for each pack (3x) plus ventilation, timer&temp cutoff, connectors, bits and pieces
= total PHEV15-20 budget <$3k (+ Mr. Pious gen2)

OEM 6x pack BMS+, forum regular mrbigh claims he's in onto 5add on packs setup, world's first, conservatively 6.5kWh, i.e. PHEV30
http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-ii-prius-modifications/66726-plug-in-hybrid-electric-vehicle-conversion-using-can-view-bms-2.html#post1108026
also on Norm's site: http://priuschat.com/forums/prius-phev-plug-in-modifications/65501-one-year-driving-our-bms-plug-in-prius.html

OEM multi-packer in waiting (4->6), suggests put these 2 extra under front driver and passenger seat
http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-ii-prius-modifications/66726-plug-in-hybrid-electric-vehicle-conversion-using-can-view-bms.html#post1004265

Current draws @ various speeds to scale the system/batt. accordingly: http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showpost.php?p=223696&postcount=32
Similar scaling gleaned from 8kWh/~4.5kW (two older DC/converters) modified Enginer kit, mixed 2/3highway 100mi @ ~100mpg, shorter/slower commutes ~200mpg (average from both 120-150mpg): http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24607
longer version: http://priuschat.com/forums/prius-phev-plug-in-modifications/68139-custom-enginer-plug-in-hybrid-electric-vehicle-8kwh.html

The precursor&inspiration for Enginer was PiPrius by Manzantia/Rudman, a kit in which his great charger also doubled in the function of DC/DC converter (180V->from batt.-> stock hybrid pack), it was comunicating via CanView. Enginer didn't have the capacity to produce such advanced product, so he divided the project into smaller-separate chunks, DC/DC convert, charger, the kit doesn't need whole CanView/BMS+ board, it only reads SoC from the ECU/stock pack and PHEV pack via 5wire cable.
PHEV The hybrid-pack Method overview: http://www.eaa-phev.org/wiki/Prius_PHEV#Hybrid-Pack_Method

[Mesuge]

TOYOTA Auris/Corolla HSD - PHEV

Hm, seems like hybrids are moving to lower/mid segment. It supposedly uses the very same hybrid (HSD) system of gen3Prius (60kW motor, NiMH), perhaps only optimized for smaller dimensions. What is very suprising is that they again left trunk area prone to aftermarket PHEV hacking or even perhaps factory Auris PHEV12.5 similar to Prius will come out eventually.
Video time ~3:00: http://www.insightcentral.net/forums/161236-post288.html
http://priuschat.com/forums/international-owners/79009-toyota-auris-hybrid-due-in-europe-july-2010-a.html

So, this is going to beat GM-Volt/Ampera about ~EUR10k on price, obviously with a bit less performance and range with 2additional OEM NiMH packs that's ~PHEV13 and even these will have hard time to fit inside a limited trunk. In the spirit "new, but is it any good..?" - weight savings negligible, the cd = .28 worse than Prius, which goes for €2.5k more (basic model) and is significantly bigger car. So, unless they drop the price or move it to Yaris, it's kind of pointless.

What are these japanese smoking?
Seems like desperate attempt to do something on euromarket where Prius sort of flopped.
DIY(HighEnd): BEV100km: econobox donor €8k + A123prismatic 12kWh pack €8k + drivetrain €5k = sub €21k
DIY(Joke): much less

[roflwaffle]

OEM 4x pack inferno, HI's kit: http://www.hybridinterfaces.ca/TomsPHEV.html
The major advantage being, that for EVmode HI board fools Prius into sucking upto 40A (9kW) out of parallelized PHEV pack (which is almost 2x more than Enginer style kit does, ~similar as upscale Hymotion kit, not as good as the leader ~20kW/70mph GoldPeak kit though, which ditches the bottlenecking stock OEM pack completely. Price $1k (HI boards), $1-1.5k (3x OEM packs), $500 double rate charger low-speed/7h ~240W for each pack (3x) plus ventilation, timer&temp cutoff, connectors, bits and pieces
= total PHEV15-20 budget <$3k (+ Mr. Pious gen2)It's not the stock pack that's a bottleneck so much as the OEM software IIRC. I'm pretty sure a Prius w/ a BMS+/four OEM packs could hit 70mph given the Ewert mods, although I'm not sure if it's economically viable to go all electric at those speeds since it appears the engine has to go through the warm up cycle, while going w/ three extra NiMH packs otoh is certainly a good idea from the perspective of costs. A LFP pack may even be viable but that depends on how they age versus how many all electric/blended miles a driver can get on them.

PS- Who supplies A123 cells for ~$800/kW shipped?

[Mesuge]

2010 gen3 Prius - one of the first PHEV hack - install pics - this one is the Enginer variant,
couple of differences to gen2 Prius components are noticable, hopefully these changes will be uniform for all HSD genIII cars:
prolly the first one: http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-iii-2010-prius-accessories-modifications/68217-enginer-2010-plug-in-hybrid-electric-vehicle-technical-information-2.html http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-iii-2010-prius-accessories-modifications/68217-enginer-2010-plug-in-hybrid-electric-vehicle-technical-information-5.html#post1012870
The Enginer kit suffered from q. issues/overheat. of DC/DC converter: http://priuschat.com/forums/prius-phev-plug-in-modifications/67657-enginer-plug-in-hybrid-electric-vehicle-dc-dc-overheating-issues.html
Sounds like improved air duct + local mini water cooling system should take care of it, 3-5kW converter @ ~85% no wonder it's a heater..

Apart from the corp. website, and priuschat forums, there are some user install video/pictures from the french guys:
http://www.bientotelectrique.com/fr/29-79-toyota-prius-plug-in.html http://priustouringclub.net/vbf/showpost.php?p=93228&postcount=118

"Sourced" claim that OEM gen3 PHEV is only a software tweak no hardware change (apart from lithium battery and plugs):
http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showpost.php?p=249314&postcount=8

gen2-3 components refinement pics: http://alternativefuels.about.com/od/2010hybridreviews/ig/2010-Toyota-Prius-photos.-6Hz/index.01.htm

Hymotion install detail, cooling duct work, SoC strategies: http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-ii-prius-modifications/52157-review-hymotion-battery-plug-in-prius.html
review, Wh data after a year: http://priuschat.com/forums/prius-phev-plug-in-modifications/67057-one-year-hymotion-plug-in-prius.html
speed, depletion, range relationship field study (4-5kWh a minimum): http://umanitoba.ca/outreach/conferences/phev2007/PHEV2007/proceedings/PluginHwy_PHEV2007_PaperReviewed_Huang.pdf

blast from the past - the Enginer system works even with genI Prius - (NHW 11) see their .pdf, also ICE shutoff: http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-ii-prius-fuel-economy/56499-backup-trick-nhw11.html
http://jccc.web.fc2.com/japanese/toyota/prius-nhw11-200303/p01.jpg (ends p28) vintage brochure

roflwaffle> well it's more like the stock pack<>software interplay<>addonPHEVpacks combined limitation, even with BMS+ (check the link), unless you put entire new pack there, so it could be considered as "bottleneck". There is a limit around 60A (~14kW) at which the car starts to yell error codes, this can be only aleviated by ditching the oem hybrid pack for completely new pack and ECU hack ala PICC kit..

Lithium in HSD PHEVs is either DC converter boosted up (inefficient, plus 5-8kW onboard converter limited ala Enginer), or old contactor cal-cars style (Pluginsupply, perhaps they have got something more modern now), or OEM plugin (2-3 subpacks yet unreleased), or BMS+ theoreticaly could do it as well (according to Norm), haven't seen in practice yet though..

-

The latest automotive grade A123prismatics leaked on the asian-chinese market recently - it's on various diy forums, not sure how long this is going to last or will they attempt to stop it. I think that A123 talks about similar pricing as of now for OEMs and $350/kWh in few years time anyway. They just need to pay off the huge investments into R&D and manufacturing, it's not raw material input cost related, hence the price drop projections. In this light their softening position of recent years on start selling their products to wider audience makes sense. I hate batt. manufs who behave like refusnicks and put roadblocks for people to buying/using their stuff..

[speedgsx98]

I did the math on the plug-in conversions a year or more ago and figured out that with the batteries required to propel a 3200lb vehicle, that the electricity required to recharge is about the same cost as gasoline @ 50 mpg's. More of a novelty at this point.

[Mesuge]

You are probably correct, but it also depends on several factors (like your location US/EU, driving profile/distance), which might tip it over towards a bit more tangible profitability or rather other benefits and synergetic factors, which can work for only small fraction of people, attitude this appliance fits all needs for everybody doesn't work here..

1/ U.S. gasoline prices are less than half of european - but they drive high mpg - modern diesels and smaller cars.
2/ Prius is deemed almost as oversized vehicle in parts of Europe certainly not taken as merely small or medium sized car.
3/ Money - Prius HSD based PHEV performs best in blended mode not EV mode only and for limited route say upto first 30-40mi blended.
4/ Specific regions/communities/municipalities have draconic speed limits in place or just like to drive slowly - which is a benefit.
5/ Is it charged daylight peak, nightly rate or from small renewables?
6/ Is the PHEV system lithium batt./DC converter or BMS+ NiMH OEM pack based or completely removed/replaced pack?
7/ Price of conversion kit-parts (and also performance) varies widely: $2.5-13k
8/ Cared for NiMH pack has got quite a longevity = PHEV setup might jump in resale value/other benefits in oilshock situation

=> so in some extraordinary combination of luck you can tweak these above for high average 85-150mpg on a budget
Is it way more expensive and less healthy than quality e-bicycle and train ticket or even an econobox running small diesel or on LPG - yes, but when compared to other similarly sized/equipped cars - it can be used as tool for higher "efficiency".
..
.

[Mesuge]

It will be nice having similar simplistic spreadsheets comparing all those E-REV v. PHEV options on the market (incl. 3rd party PHEV kits) with the possibility just updating your milage/usage pattern for EV mode/blended (CS), electricity rates etc. Adding MSRP, service cost estimates could shake it up too. So, for some people the winner could be PHEV7-15, but for others E-REV40mi detroiter turns out more appropriate..

http://mysite.verizon.net/vzenu6hr/ebay_pictures/volt_fuel_savings.jpg

#221 http://gm-volt.com/2010/04/20/are-you-reserving-a-nissan-leaf-today/#comments

[NeilBlanchard]

Some of the earlier Enginer batteries have issues with heat:

http://www.tercelreference.com/downloads/prius056.JPG

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/2nd-gen-prius-phev-conversion-enginer-plug-lithium-11555-16.html#post167920

[Mesuge]

The ultimate cheapskate "blender/CD" PHEV setup, follow up from #14.

The goal here is to run it in *blended mode (displace gasoline) aiming at >>80mpg for the commuting route (slow/short):
Prius NHW11, 3-5kW 48V-320V DC/DC, 6x (48-12V/12ah stellar peukert sillicon Pb with cold temp performance, or 4x 48x20Ah, etc.) on copper bussbar parallel-2-DC convertor, each module zener-diod equalization protected on each cell, 6x 48V modules disconnected by 3x2 contactors (a4kiwi style) for charging (i.e. no HV present for prolonged time), optional mega safety via multipin LV connector to outside EVSE, 6x 2-3stage cheap tiny chargers (onboard/offboard), improved forced air cooling, diy box or Enginer ready-made box, diag OBD-II tool like scangauge.

Also, one should consider installing a passive inline coolant heater (+20C), block heater on timer to speed-up the ICE start-up routine, aeromods may knock down additional .5L/100km, http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/aeromodding-my-2003-classic-nhw11-prius-11426.html
mpg charts & suggestions: http://greenhybrid.com/discuss/f10/01-03-prius-fuel-consumption-mpg-11771/#post105981
purchasing tips, repairs, temp mods: http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/orange4boys-rescue-revival-2003-prius-10710-17.html#post155773 http://hiwaay.net/~bzwilson/prius/
http://priuschat.com/forums/generation-1-prius-discussion/72693-nhw11-hacks.html#post1010459
stock Enginer kit on gen1: http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?p=245272
http://priuschat.com/forums/generation-1-prius-discussion/65545-2001-gen-1-prius-plug-in-conversion.html

So, we are looking at no worse ~59% combo derating factor due to cheapo low. eff DC/ and lowered DoD needed for min. 600-750cycles, which translates into 2kWh (added) usable with regen window from stock pack a bit more, hence PHEV (~15-20mi blended), added weight ~100kg. Price: ~ $1600 (less or bit more depending on options)

Will, it save money (the PHEV system on its own)? Prolly, not for U.S. gas pricing but your are defintely going to brake even, some savings possible elsewhere. However, look for the major effects: coolness geek factor and less hassle with fuel rations if they come, hah.

*apart from warp/stealth, forcing EV mode while driving at very low speeds with gen1 theoretically possible too but that's not the goal, also regen tweak talk:
http://priuschat.com/forums/generation-1-prius-discussion/72693-nhw11-hacks-2.html#post1077534 http://autospeed.com/A_111496/cms/article.html
EV mode/Hybrid ECU hack: http://priuschat.com/forums/generation-1-prius-discussion/75217-hacking-computer.html

Peaks into the gen1 battery and blended operation (Wh, e.g. ~95Wh/km@64km/h): http://prius.ecrostech.com/

Gen1, also a candidate for yet another M. Dabrowski's mod in the making, welded PSD for combined mg1/2 full EV operation,
inverter DSP board and other ECUs hack necessary, if ever realised this would be a city-short ranger, due to gen1 limited space.

Note: As you known gen1 needs ICE for A/C operation, so this must be turned off before start or later during warp and normal stealthing

[Mesuge]

Gen2-3 talk for a change, here is hobbit's take on how the best PHEV kit PICC
(GoldPeak NiMH + Ewert bros. 70mph EV mode) probably operates (4th paragraph from the bottom):

1. Spoofing SoC and/or widening warp stealth settings
(car is thinking that dumping 30-40A -> 100A from batt. is ok for a few sec but it will take longer hah)
2. Fuel-injection cutoff but ICE motor spinning ~1k rpm, MG1/MG2 still within theirs rpm limits upto ~70mph

?+prolly some background loops to check the state of ICE from various sensors, to allow stock warm up routines if accel. demands go suddenly beyond ~100A peak batt. flows for the 20-23kW "high speed" EV mode only driving. There must be some added magic though, since the other kit providers still havent figured up this software upgrade or are not interested in it becauase of the lack of batt./higher power DC/ converters on the cheap.

Otherwise this page is about killing the engine safely (fuel injection) while shifted in Neutral, usefull for PHEVs too..
http://techno-fandom.org/~hobbit/cars/nosquirt/ http://techno-fandom.org/~hobbit/cars/warpstealth.html

[Mesuge]

Neil> it's not 100% conclusive this was a case of bad cell, prolly the unfused cell logs could have hand in it as well. The unmodified Enginer kit is still kind of work in progress, they are currently on 3rd revision? Apart from DC/converter and cooling issues, hopefully resolved by now, this proto BMS seems a bit unsufficient, they should either put something at every cell, drop it into 48V sub packs with contactor, etc.. I guess it might be much safer just throwing in "quality" ready-made pedelecs/e-scooter packs incl. protection circuits as individual modules, which build up the entire 2-4kWh batt. pack. If the individual chargers won't fit then lets put them offboard.

[Mesuge]

http://priuschat.com/news/what-drives-us-podcast-episode-12-all-prius-phv

Gen3 PHEVs Toyota> according to this podcast, which visited the recent Toyota conference and spoke with some ot their representatives, the situation should be roughly as follows:

- the current test fleet of ~500 PHEVs running till 2012 is not the final product, they are mainly testing consumer behaviour,
and the 3sub-pack approach (1-hybrid, 2-PHEV), the final lithium batt. pack size could be a bit bigger/smaller

- the classic fleet (growing list of hybrid models) from Toyota should remain NiMH based at least till 2013-2015

- the gen4 Prius is targeted ~2015 and likely will be lithium based

--

Review after an hour of driving, Toyota stripped the EV mode button from the car, because of proper testing of the fleet (force people into EV mode), production version should have it back. The visual display needs upgrade showing both hybrid and PHEVs pack status. The car is tweaked in the fashion it can't be easily kicked out of CD mode and start the ICE (bellow ~62mph). So, the PHEV13 pack can be trashed very fast if you so desire, but that we knew already, and that's not like majority of people will drive it. Conclusion: very good..

[Mesuge]

It's kind of interesting the reviewer in the video, Bill Moore, didn't mention he is a owner of the PICC-GoldPeak conversion: stock batt. out, new bigger cell NiMH pack in, new ECU, 70mph mode, hacked MFD display with latest CanView board - info tabs, three power/range settings. Interesting info about the performance, also reveals the pack is cycled ~23-89%, hence ~66% usable (3-5k cycles?), max. power flows allowed ~24/28kW in/out as ev mode and regen.

Info and pictures here: http://www.evworld.com/currents.cfm?jid=52 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lyzd9guwWg8
The PICC owners thread: http://priuschat.com/forums/prius-phev-plug-in-modifications/74755-whats-coming-year-plug-in-hybrid-electric-vehicle-conversion.html

[Mesuge]

PICC + Ewert bros. team did it again.
Now they are testing lithium PHEV kit for 2010 (gen3 Prius and Lexus) with 70mph top speed and ~45mi range. The price has not been announced, since it's 12.5kWh capacity it's perhaps unlikely to be positioned bellow $15k, should be on the market in 3-6months.. Otherwise you can get for the previous Prius generation their ~12mi EV mode NiMH kit.

http://evworld.com/currents.cfm?jid=130
http://evworld.com/news.cfm?newsid=23691