Fisker wraps up $529 million federal loan

[butter]

http://auto.freedomblogging.com/2010/04/23/irvine-automaker-fisker-wraps-up-529-million-federal-loan/32775/

ORANGE COUNTY REGISTER
Auto Motion: Car news, reviews, and features by Matt Degen
April 23, 2010, 4:08 p.m.

Fisker Automotive, the Irvine-based maker of luxury green automobiles, got final approval Friday for a half-billion dollar federal loan.

The Department of Energy announced that it closed the $528.7 million loan to the Orange County automaker, which it will use to develop two lines of plug-in hybrid electric vehicles. The first vehicle is the luxury Karma sedan, which is to hit showrooms at the end of this year.

The bulk of the loan is expected to help fund Fisker’s next line of green automobiles, dubbed Project NINA. Those cars are to be built in America at a shuttered General Motors plant in Delaware.

Fisker Automotive said it would buy that plant during a ceremony there last October that was attended by Vice President Joe Biden.

In a statement regarding today’s action, Biden said, “The story of Fisker is a story of ingenuity of an American company, a commitment to innovation by the U.S. government and the perseverance of the American auto industry.”

“The Boxwood Plant is opening again, employing workers in Delaware, and is serving as a roadmap for all we can accomplish if everyone works together. Thanks to real dedication by this Administration, loans from the Department of Energy, the creativity of U.S. companies and the tenacity of great state partners like Delaware – we’re on our way to helping America’s auto industry reclaim its top position in the global market.”

Fisker spokesman Russell Datz said, “We are elated,” at the news of the loan being made official.

The loan was originally approved last September, but Fisker Automotive had to meet certain criteria to draw upon it, Datz said. One such step to gaining access was met when Fisker obtained another $115 million in financing in January.

“It comes down to equity and production dates,” Datz said. “It actually took a little longer than we expected.”

The government loan, Datz said, “enables us to start NINA now instead of three years from now.”

In fact, designs on the car have already started in Irvine, Datz said.

“We are very excited about this, and it means a lot to the company and Orange County and Irvine in particular,” Datz said.

And even beyond the level of funding is the intrinsic value that comes with it, Datz said.

“I don’t think there could be a bigger vote of confidence, quite frankly. When a lending institution — whether the government or a bank — is willing to put that kind of money behind you with the faith that it will be repaid, that speaks volumes.”

Datz emphasized that while the lower-volume, nearly $90,000 Karma flagship vehicle will be produced in Finland, the Project NINA line — which is expected to cost around $40,000 — will be made in America.

“It is a loan that is required to be paid back, and it will create American jobs,” Datz said. “The money cannot be spent on anything outside of the U.S., and it will bring a lot of satellite business to California, too.”

[aptera1213]

Two things: similar to Tesla, it again shows that from approval to closing ( loan money available to draw against) takes about 7 months. So when and if Aptera gets DOE approval it will be 11 months plus 7 months (11 per PW, 7 months per DOE history).

Secondly, that just took a huge chunk of available money.

Gavin

[randyd]

Secondly, that just took a huge chunk of available money.

Gavin

That's what surprised me: the size of the loan Fisker got. That's HUGE for a company with a product history and roadmap like Fisker.

[aptera1213]

4 wheels and a hybrid...and upscale styling and price...easier to convince you can make it.

Gavin

[Josie Garthwaite]

Earth2Tech has an interview with the DOE loan chief Jonathan Silver today, giving an update on the ATVM program that Aptera and several of its potential competitors have been eyeing (this is the program that awarded Fisker $529M). He explains, among other things, what makes a strong application and when we can expect the next conditional commitments to come through. No word on three-wheelers!

[aptera1213]

Josie, it is ok to link to your site... :) we won't consider it spamming ;)

Thanks for the info...

Gavin

[Josie Garthwaite]

Heh, I would but I haven't posted enough times on the forum to share links. :) Maybe you can grab the URL?

[aptera1213]

mmmm, as I read that I thought it sounded quite good for Aptera in all ways...until this part
And if the applications come in complete, robust, with logical debt-equity ratios, and without dramatic odd features that require an immense amount of customization and fitting,

I'm not sure this is geared toward aptera or other strange vehicles, but dramatic odd features is Aptera's main selling point ;)

Still the interview didn't feel like it precluded Aptera or others, he seemed to really want to LEND money...that might be the other "rub"...the DOE needs to believe it will get it's money back.

Gavin

[aptera1213]

http://earth2tech.com/2010/05/25/qa-doe-loan-chief-on-lessons-for-greentech-startups-vcs/

Gavin

[aptera1213]

Josie...If you get his ear again, ask about specific cars...I'm sure he will try and deflect, but it would be good to know about whether Aptera is moving forward in consideration...and about some others who might also be in line...

Zap, Coda....did Nissan or Fiat or Mits ask for loans? If so, how are they progressing...

Yeah, I'm sure he won't say much, but it never hurts to ask.

Gavin

[Rembrant]

Two things: similar to Tesla, it again shows that from approval to closing ( loan money available to draw against) takes about 7 months. So when and if Aptera gets DOE approval it will be 11 months plus 7 months (11 per PW, 7 months per DOE history).

Secondly, that just took a huge chunk of available money.

Gavin
Sounds like you've been following the DOE loans closer than me so I have a question. Any ballpark number on the time frame from application to approval? I just want to get an idea of when Aptera will get the news one way or the other.

[aptera1213]

Seems to be about 7 months from application to approval...then another 6 months or so to actually get the check...

So a year from App to money...but Aptera could use just the approval to get some other money flowing in...so at least 7 months from app to getting some good spin and maybe some outside money flowing, possibly 13 months from app to money.

Now getting denied...I don't know how long that takes.

End of summer should let us know one way or another...

Aptera has said 11 months after DOE money...now is that approval or cash in hand? Either way, no 2e in 2010, maybe in summer of 2011 or maybe early 2012...depends on the above numbers.

Gavin

[SlowSRT4]

Josie...If you get his ear again, ask about specific cars...I'm sure he will try and deflect, but it would be good to know about whether Aptera is moving forward in consideration...and about some others who might also be in line...

Zap, Coda....did Nissan or Fiat or Mits ask for loans? If so, how are they progressing...

Yeah, I'm sure he won't say much, but it never hurts to ask.

Gavin
Chrysler and GM only recently became eligible for ATVM loans:
http://green.autoblog.com/2010/05/14/general-motors-chrysler-now-eligible-for-atvm-re-tooling-loans/

So for Chrysler/Fiat, the Fiat 500 EV is being funded by themselves, the plug-in Ram hybrids may get a $48 million grant from the DOE.

Mitsubishi, no loans.

Nissan? Yeah, they were awarded a measly loan of $1.6 billion, LOL.

[Marc]

As I see it you have two ways to become a viable player:
1) Be first mover with a niche car (ie: 3 wheeled, 2 seater, DOT-skirting commuter)
Use funds and xp to drive next iteration
2) Be second but target a larger market (ie: 4 wheel 4 seater)
Heavier up-front investment, sharper hockey-stick curve

The LAST thing you'd want to do is get a lot of money and put it in a niche vehicle and be late to market. Talk about pissing money down a hole!

[JustWilliam]

Two things: similar to Tesla, it again shows that from approval to closing ( loan money available to draw against) takes about 7 months. So when and if Aptera gets DOE approval it will be 11 months plus 7 months (11 per PW, 7 months per DOE history).

Secondly, that just took a huge chunk of available money.

Gavin
Oh Gavin! Way to put funds and timing into SHARP perspective.

Nissan Renault has thrown down HARD on both timing and price. Despite my complete lack of desire or NEED for the Leaf, it is THE standard that has to be matched or exceeded by similar mainstream vehicles. Or massively better for niche markets. A FAR better urban car. Or sporty car. Or two-wheeler replacement...

The Humanity! Aptera has an ever more difficult path in what has become a far more competitive field of players in EVERY possible niche.

I really love and respect M. Fisker as a designer, engineer and actual creator of significant vehicles. And Tesla has proved (with massive help from Lotus) that it is beneficial to establish your niche and justify price by excellence and exceeded expectations. As a tax payer, I support reasonable investment in BOTH companies, as long as both commit significant investment in US based production and R&D.

Thanks for a true reality check man!

[SlowSRT4]

Chrysler and GM only recently became eligible for ATVM loans:
http://green.autoblog.com/2010/05/14/general-motors-chrysler-now-eligible-for-atvm-re-tooling-loans/

So for Chrysler/Fiat, the Fiat 500 EV is being funded by themselves, the plug-in Ram hybrids may get a $48 million grant from the DOE.

Mitsubishi, no loans.

Nissan? Yeah, they were awarded a measly loan of $1.6 billion, LOL.
Also not sure about Zap.

Here is Coda status:
http://green.autoblog.com/2010/05/25/coda-says-columbus-ohio-will-be-site-for-new-battery-plant-if/

[aptera1213]

Nissan? Yeah, they were awarded a measly loan of $1.6 billion, LOL.

Ha, I totally forgot about Nissan...of course they are using it mostly for battery tech and building a new battery plant in smyra ...which is good...and shows that Nissan was pretty smart to be working on li-ion for the last 17 years...

It seems all that money (1.4 billion...Nissan turned down 200 million) is going into Tennessee...so good for them...American jobs and pushing battery tech and EVs is a pretty good use of that LOAN money.

The battery plant and the assembly plant re-tooling are being funded from a $1.4 billion low interest loan that Nissan won from the Department of Energy in 2009.

over at....ABG (http://green.autoblog.com/2010/05/26/nissan-ceo-ghosn-breaks-ground-for-lithium-ion-battery-plant/)

Gavin

[SlowSRT4]

Ha, I totally forgot about Nissan...of course they are using it mostly for battery tech and building a new battery plant in smyra ...which is good...and shows that Nissan was pretty smart to be working on li-ion for the last 17 years...

It seems all that money (1.4 billion...Nissan turned down 200 million) is going into Tennessee...so good for them...American jobs and pushing battery tech and EVs is a pretty good use of that LOAN money.



over at....ABG (http://green.autoblog.com/2010/05/26/nissan-ceo-ghosn-breaks-ground-for-lithium-ion-battery-plant/)

Gavin
We know it is loan money, there is no need to be shouting. :)

I must say, I don't understand why folks on this forum have been giving so much credit to Nissan's supposedly legendary "17 year li-ion experience". All automakers make concepts, play with technologies, etc.

No credit is given to Ford. They had the Probe I in 1979 with covered wheels and pop-up headlights, up to the Probe IV in 1982 with a 0.152 cd. Then in 1984 the Probe V with a 0.137 cd and a lot of innovations in the name of efficiency: http://www.carstyling.ru/en/cars.1985_Ford_Probe%20V.html

Or what about Fiat? They have been making small, efficient cars for a long time. They had the Fiat Turbina in 1954 with a 0.14 cd. :character0026:

[aptera1213]

ha, sorry for the shouting...but you might be surprised at how many people don't think it is a loan...

I loved the probe concepts...sorry to say the probe that was released was just a boring car without all the cool parts of the concept.

as for fiat...heck I will be first in line for a 500EV....

Gavin

[SlowSRT4]

I loved the probe concepts...sorry to say the probe that was released was just a boring car without all the cool parts of the concept.

as for fiat...heck I will be first in line for a 500EV....

Gavin
That's my point, where are all these 17 model years of li-ion Nissans driving around? Oh, look, I just saw a 17 year-old Nissan EV driving past my house! Oh wait a minute... nope, false alarm lol... :happy0025:

Nah, you have turned your back on Fiat. You said before the 500 EV was slated to be produced that you really wanted them to make it and that you would buy one above all else. Now you are buying Leafs (Leaves?) instead. Turncoat!

[aptera1213]

Ha...yep...I'm buying a LEAF...and in two years if Fiat is selling a 500ev, the LEAF goes to my wife or my daughter (they can fight over it) and will get a 500...

Heck, Fiat get the 500ev here by December and I will cancel my LEAF deposit.

Gavin