Things I want to see for the interior

[DavidHoff]

All - Here are some things I would like to see in the interior:

1. Cupholders ofcourse
2. Map pockets in the door that won't let the maps fall out
3. Some type of cubby between the seats
4. Some type of overhead console for sunglasses
5. Place for pens and coins
6. Place to place the laptop
7. Dual glove boxes on the passenger side
8. Place on dash to slide some flat folder/legal pad
9. Pockets on the back of the seats
10. Lots of extra places to squirrel away things
11. Some type of optional back end organizer
12. Cubby/drawer under the seats
13. Place to squirrel away an umbrella
14. Place to squirrel away a 2 D cell flashlight

Also hope that it will come with cruise control/tilt steering wheel.

Any other things that I am missing?

Feel free to add on.

Enjoy!

[KarenRei]

2 D cell flashlight? What's wrong with big diode lights? :) A diode light with four AAs can be pretty blinding.

You didn't mention sunshades. Have to have some sort of fold-down sunshades. :) Preferably with small mirrors on them for fixing your hair or whatnot.

[drivin98]

Tilt is cool, cupholders not. A lot of that stuff can be found on the aftermarket. I like my cabin clean.

[3-4-me]

Quite the list:p
I think the map books would be unneccesary with the StreetDeck Nav system.
+1 on the LED flashlights. They're so bright and inexpensive now, I don't know how the old style lights will stay in business.

[azg00]

I think that one person's clean is another person's barren just one person's clutter is another person's ideal setup.

I'm hoping for cruise control too

Andy
Typ-1h #1592

[fritzponds]

It would be cool if the rear view cameras could flash red if they detected a car in their view.

[GCustom]

It would be cool if the rear view cameras could flash red if they detected a car in their view.
and your turn signal for that side of the car is active

[butter]

How about a place to put your single-stemmed daisy?

Just kidding. I'm with the "barren" people -- less is better. And someone else pointed out a lot of the stuff for "squirreling away" can be after-market. I'm more concerned about the rearview cameras not breaking down/blacking out/disconnecting/whatever somehow and other practical issues with a car that's functionally the first of its kind. This is, after all, supposed to be a practical vehicle, not a toy. Although a little pet seat would be nice for my furbabies. JUST KIDDING

[Ceazar77]

I would like lots of accessory power jacks. 12v 'lighter' jacks in the front and 1 in the rear for a cooler. Powered USB ports. Built in 120v AC inverter that can be deactiveated. It's amazing how many cables I can have coming of my single lighter port on a cross country trip :-S.

[NeilBlanchard]

Hi,

I like the crank LED flashlights -- just wind 'em up and they are good for a while, and when they get dim -- crank 'em some more.

[Rat]

Most of the original list falls into the category of "places to put things". I don't care much about cupholders, but one or two would be nice, I suppose. I need a good sunglasses spot, so I vote for that. A dedicated spot that can be accessed easily while driving and without digging around in a console (e.g. the ones typically up between the sunshades in the headliner on most new cars). Also, I agree with sunshades, and I would like to see one of those programmable garage door opener things where you just point your opener at it and it memorizes the sequence. That adds one button to the dash (or above the windshield), but it allows for removal of the clunky plastic box hanging on the sunshade so it actually simplifies the lines and the clutter. NO ASHTRAYS! Aptera owners should be banned from smoking or letting smokers in the car.

[Doyle]

Just give me comfortable adjustable seats.

[speculawyer]

NO ASHTRAYS! Aptera owners should be banned from smoking or letting smokers in the car.
Yeah, but what if it is a joint for the passenger? This is California!



Joking! ;)

[danieloneil01]

I'd be happy with what was shown in the videos to get one by 4Q 2010..

[garygid]

For me, comfortable seats that do not make my low back ache,
and really good air conditioning so that I can stay cool when driving
on hot days in the even hotter sunshine.

[RainCaster]

If the seats shown in the earlier cars make it to production, I will need alien faces embroidered into those head rests. :D A three button garage clicker would be good, as would a cup holder for my morning caffeine fix. A/C that keeps my windows clear in the winter rains. Several extra fuse locations on the fuse block, so I can add my own GPS, radio, radar...

[Louv]

All - Here are some things I would like to see in the interior:

1. Cupholders ofcourse
2. Map pockets in the door that won't let the maps fall out
3. Some type of cubby between the seats
4. Some type of overhead console for sunglasses
5. Place for pens and coins
6. Place to place the laptop
7. Dual glove boxes on the passenger side
8. Place on dash to slide some flat folder/legal pad
9. Pockets on the back of the seats
10. Lots of extra places to squirrel away things
11. Some type of optional back end organizer
12. Cubby/drawer under the seats
13. Place to squirrel away an umbrella
14. Place to squirrel away a 2 D cell flashlight

Also hope that it will come with cruise control/tilt steering wheel.

Any other things that I am missing?
...

Yes, you seem to be missing your Minivan. :jumping0007:

[Apt3448]

Yes, you seem to be missing your Minivan. :jumping0007:
You got the point, Louv LOL!

[Louv]

What I want & want not:

- No cruise control. The car doesn't have a range long enough for the Driver to be tired. IMHO.

- clean, uncluttered interior. Less weight = better range.

- Bluetooth handsfree. In California, it's the law. Or we could all just put hang up and Drive. No, really, you can, I swear.

- A simple, low wattage stereo, with Aux Input jack. (the car is quiet and doesn't need a massive stereo; battery power = range; future-ready for random mp3 player devices.

- No cupholders. Stop, have a coffee. Then drive. (I'm never going to win this fight, am I?)

- Convenient storage for two 200' extension cords: 110v & 220v (and adapters)

- Sports seats, with great side bolsters.

- A Nav system that knows where Free Recharge stations are located (near me).

- A First Aid Kit. (for all the pedestrians I run over because they didn't hear me coming)

[wpatters]

I would need adjustable seats. cruise control, lots of 12 volt outlets and an Ipod cable to the radio.

Bill Patterson Aptera H # 101

[speculawyer]

For me, comfortable seats that do not make my low back ache,
and really good air conditioning so that I can stay cool when driving
on hot days in the even hotter sunshine.
Yeah, that heat pump/AC better work well. I rarely use AC since I drive a convertible. But if I am in a vehicle that is going to be completely enclosed, it better be damn good AC.

[randyd]

- No cruise control. The car doesn't have a range long enough for the Driver to be tired. IMHO.
Cruise control helps me keep from going too fast. Going 55 is hard (for me) when all other cars are going 65-70.

- Bluetooth handsfree. In California, it's the law. Or we could all just put hang up and Drive. No, really, you can, I swear.
I have a Bluetooth headset but if the Aptera does a better job, I'll use it.

- A simple, low wattage stereo, with Aux Input jack. (the car is quiet and doesn't need a massive stereo; battery power = range; future-ready for random mp3 player devices.

I sure hope you are right about the car being quiet. The videos I have seen and heard have me worried. And I agree about a simple, low wattage stereo (i.e. two speakers) with an AUX input.

- No cupholders. Stop, have a coffee. Then drive. (I'm never going to win this fight, am I?)
No, you are not. :)

- Convenient storage for two 200' extension cords: 110v & 220v (and adapters)
Excellent idea. I had not thought of that. With copper theft on the rise, I wonder how long my extension cord would last...

- The 220V option deserves it's own bullet.

- Sports seats, with great side bolsters.
The freeways are rough enough in No. Cal. that my vote is for more cushioning than is typical in a "sport" seat. A lightweight car will bounce more than a heavier car. That's just physics. And unless the Aptera has a "state of the art" active suspension, the unsprung weight will toss the sprung weight around much more than a typical 2500 pound car.

- A Nav system that knows where Free Recharge stations are located (near me).
Free would be nice. Commercial would be nice too, only in conjunction with overnight lodging. I have heard nothing about a high watt charger option.

-=O=- Randy

[n_dawg]

Well, bluetooth hands-free is almost a given, since the in-car computer will be exactly that – a real computer. Bluetooth adapters are in the neighborhood of $10 in bulk.

Cup holders are a must for commercial viability. Read why it's the most important safety feature (http://www.gladwell.com/2004/2004_01_12_a_suv.html) in a vehicle.

Power output of the stereo isn't the main concern – weight is. The speaker, amplifier, cable, etc must be beefier for higher maximum power. Remember, higher maximum power doesn't mean higher power – at the same volume it may even be more energy efficient (not a speaker designer, so I don't really know).

@wpatters: Why the 12 V when you already have USB ports? Big agreement on the aux in, and I think it's likely for the same reasons as Bluetooth above.

No cruise control? Don't be silly, no-one will pay $27,000 for a car with no cruise control. It's also an efficiency concern – it can maintain speed far more efficiently than you can.

[Rat]

No cruise control? Don't be silly, no-one will pay $27,000 for a car with no cruise control. It's also an efficiency concern – it can maintain speed far more efficiently than you can.
You may be right from the marketing aspect, but I have heard that the efficiency is an urban myth. Of course driving at a steady even rate instead of accelerating and braking all the time is more efficient, but you don't need cruise control to do that and in hilly or curvy terrain, you accomplish exactly the opposite of what you intend with cruise control. The cruise control will try to maintain steady speed going up the steep hill, for example, and thus inject fuel rapidly only to bring you quickly up behind the big truck that has slowed from 55 to 40 and you have to brake suddenly. Similarly coasting up to a red light - the cruise control will maintain the max speed longer than it should and then you have to brake when you could have just taken your foot off the accelerator and coasted through without braking if you were in active control and paying attention. Add that to the weight and the power consumed by the cruise control mechanism itself and you have slightly less efficiency than a conservative driver who actively judges conditions ahead and uses the gas and brakes as little as possible. This was tested recently by a newspaper columnist in my area ("Mr. Roadshow") who specializes in traffic and transportation. He is a big hybrid supporter and his relatively unscientific test confirmed that cruise control increased gas consumption slightly. Also, A/C, supposedly more efficient because you don't increase drag from opening the windows, used more fuel than it saved, although that may not be true for a specially designed aerodynamic vehicle like the Aptera. Personally, though, my butt gets sore on long drives if I have to keep pressure on the gas all the time. I may not take many long trips in the Aptera with its limited range, but if it ends up with a range that could extend more than an hour's drive time one-way, I need cruise control to allow me to relax my right glute from time to time.

[Louv]

Well, bluetooth hands-free is almost a given, since the in-car computer will be exactly that – a real computer. Bluetooth adapters are in the neighborhood of $10 in bulk.
Sure, Bluetooth chips are cheap, but integrating BT into a system isn't free. Integration, software, firmware, testing, certification, antenna design, etc. It all takes time and money, and the project management might make the decision that "Sooner is better than Bluetooth". {replace BT with your favorite feature}

Cup holders are a must for commercial viability. Read why it's the most important safety feature (http://www.gladwell.com/2004/2004_01_12_a_suv.html) in a vehicle.
ROTFL or maybe I'm really just crying. That link is both funny and sad. It illustrates that Americans are stupid sheep when it comes to their safety.

I stand by my original request: No Cupholders. And I fully realize that I will lose that battle. Put down your friggin' Grande Latte and pick up the steering wheel.

Power output of the stereo isn't the main concern – weight is. The speaker, amplifier, cable, etc must be beefier for higher maximum power. Remember, higher maximum power doesn't mean higher power – at the same volume it may even be more energy efficient (not a speaker designer, so I don't really know).
Yup, that's what I meant: no 12" Woofer with a giant heavy magnet. And it should be power efficient because I don't want my range to drop by 10 miles because the stereo is consuming my battery power. But I do want music, and Audible Books, and news.

@wpatters: Why the 12 V when you already have USB ports? Big agreement on the aux in, and I think it's likely for the same reasons as Bluetooth above.
USB ports can't possible provide the same amount of power that a 12v CLA can. The USB spec doesn't allow it. (yet)

No cruise control? Don't be silly, no-one will pay $27,000 for a car with no cruise control. It's also an efficiency concern – it can maintain speed far more efficiently than you can.
I'm not silly. I desire to be in control of my vehicle. I don't like handing over control. Most of the time I'll be driving this is in commute traffic, and you have no business being on cruise control in traffic. (unless you have some super fancy radar-based follow the car in front of me and control the brakes and go-pedal and let the drive fall asleep system). While the car can maintain a constant speed better than I can, I don't want or need Cruise Control. So if it means getting my car 3 or 6 or 12 months ahead of you (because maybe it takes more time to build, design, integrate, test, certify, and lawyerize a cruise control system) then gimme my car now, and you can wait.

[evolutionmovement]

In some cases, the cruise control is less efficient anyway since they can't anticipate hills and slopes.

[KarenRei]

Let's see... "Things I want to see in the interior"...

* Myself

[n_dawg]

The cruise control will try to maintain steady speed going up the steep hill, for example, and thus inject fuel rapidly only to bring you quickly up behind the big truck that has slowed from 55 to 40 and you have to brake suddenly. Similarly coasting up to a red light - the cruise control will maintain the max speed longer than it should and then you have to brake when you could have just taken your foot off the accelerator and coasted through without braking if you were in active control and paying attention.

That's some pretty hearty anecdotal support there. ;)

Of course cruise control doesn't replace attentiveness and anticipation. It's a tool–nothing more, nothing less.

Add that to the weight and the power consumed by the cruise control mechanism itself and you have slightly less efficiency than a conservative driver who actively judges conditions ahead and uses the gas and brakes as little as possible.

Yes, but you have something more efficient than the *average* driver, which is what's important. There's also no law that says you *must* use cruise control, and in fact this conservative driver won't be using it when it's not useful. When not in use, the disadvantages in weight and power are trivial (remember, this thing is already computer controlled).

This was tested recently by a newspaper columnist in my area ("Mr. Roadshow") who specializes in traffic and transportation. He is a big hybrid supporter and his relatively unscientific test confirmed that cruise control increased gas consumption slightly.

I'm assuming he was doing this on a parallel hybrid. The Aptera's a completely different animal. Again, no-one is claiming that cruise control can beat a seasoned hypermiler, just that it's way better than average.

Also, A/C, supposedly more efficient because you don't increase drag from opening the windows, used more fuel than it saved, although that may not be true for a specially designed aerodynamic vehicle like the Aptera.

I've heard under 40 use windows, over 40 use A/C.

Personally, though, my butt gets sore on long drives if I have to keep pressure on the gas all the time. I may not take many long trips in the Aptera with its limited range, but if it ends up with a range that could extend more than an hour's drive time one-way, I need cruise control to allow me to relax my right glute from time to time.

Completely agree :)

[n_dawg]

Sure, Bluetooth chips are cheap, but integrating BT into a system isn't free. Integration, software, firmware, testing, certification, antenna design, etc. It all takes time and money, and the project management might make the decision that "Sooner is better than Bluetooth". {replace BT with your favorite feature}


Aptera isn't building the software, only assembling the computer. The reasons you mentioned are why we have embraced *modularity*.

That link is both funny and sad.

I thought it was quite insightful, actually.


USB ports can't possible provide the same amount of power that a 12v CLA can. The USB spec doesn't allow it. (yet)

That's what the built-in inverter is for! Preferably switched on by the action of plugging it in, and switched off when the blades retract.


I'm not silly. I desire to be in control of my vehicle. I don't like handing over control.

Darn, you won't like the force-always-on-cruise-control option. Oh, wait, no-one's proposing that.

Most of the time I'll be driving this is in commute traffic, and you have no business being on cruise control in traffic. (unless you have some super fancy radar-based follow the car in front of me and control the brakes and go-pedal and let the drive fall asleep system).

Again, then don't use it.

While the car can maintain a constant speed better than I can, I don't want or need Cruise Control. So if it means getting my car 3 or 6 or 12 months ahead of you (because maybe it takes more time to build, design, integrate, test, certify, and lawyerize a cruise control system) then gimme my car now, and you can wait.

Actually, making two models (one with and one without cruise control) would take longer than just making one with cruise control. So in reality, everyone including you would be getting their cars later, to serve a niche market of cruise-control haters. Doesn't seem like a good move to me. :rolleye0003:

[Louv]

Aptera isn't building the software, only assembling the computer. The reasons you mentioned are why we have embraced *modularity*.

Have you ever worked on a team that developed a commercial Bluetooth Device? Just curious. I have. It is a feature, like anything else, and it takes time and people to develop. You can't just walk into Fry's buy a "Module", glue it under the dash, and clap your hands together, and yell "Done!".

I assume you are correct that they will buy a complete set of entertainment electronics from some OEM. But it still takes time to integrate it, test it in the complete system, and develop the spare parts, service & support documentation for Aptera repair technicians.


I thought it was quite insightful, actually.
Insightful? Sure. Sad, too, that people think they are safer, when in fact they are less safe. Worse yet, they make the road less safe for the rest of us by being distracted by all the other (non-driving-related) things they do while behind the wheel.


Actually, making two models (one with and one without cruise control) would take longer than just making one with cruise control. So in reality, everyone including you would be getting their cars later, to serve a niche market of cruise-control haters. Doesn't seem like a good move to me. :rolleye0003:
Oh? Now I'm a "hater"?
I think you misunderstood me. I don't hate cruise control, in fact, all my other cars have it. And, on rare occasions, I've even used it!!! (I know, you are shocked!) I just stated two things: 1) <i>My</i> usage of this vehicle will not involve situations where <i>I</I> would use cruise control. 2) My vote, as a customer, is that I don't need or want the expense or complexity or weight of a cruise control system in this particular car. That's *MY* vote. You get a vote too. Your opinion is just as valid as mine. I'm not sure you think my vote counts as much as yours.

Run with me on this one:
If (in a parallel universe) Aptera came to you and said you have a choice: You can have a car on January 1 without cruise control, OR you can have a car on June 1 with cruise control. Which would you choose?

2nd questions:
Aptera offers Cruise Control as a $250 option. Do you buy it?

Just trying to gauge how much you want the feature.

[chasmccl]

To all

I love cruise control! My wife's Avalon has it and we drove to Bakersfield from Fresno last Sunday and got 30.1 MPG at 70MPH on cruise all the way! For a car that large, I think that's pretty amazing mileage. Also the Avalon cc has automatic speed control which slows down and speeds up automatically as cars get in front of you and depart. Pretty slick, Aptera, I want it!

Charlie McClain :jumping0006:

[n_dawg]

Have you ever worked on a team that developed a commercial Bluetooth Device? Just curious. I have. It is a feature, like anything else, and it takes time and people to develop. You can't just walk into Fry's buy a "Module", glue it under the dash, and clap your hands together, and yell "Done!".

I assume you are correct that they will buy a complete set of entertainment electronics from some OEM. But it still takes time to integrate it, test it in the complete system, and develop the spare parts, service & support documentation for Aptera repair technicians.


Again, they're not building the computer, just using something off the shelf. This is a standard, x86 PC computer (it has to be, it's running XP), not some embedded build from scratch solution. There will be some cost I'm sure, but it will be insignificant compared to the selling points it will enable.


Insightful? Sure. Sad, too, that people think they are safer, when in fact they are less safe. Worse yet, they make the road less safe for the rest of us by being distracted by all the other (non-driving-related) things they do while behind the wheel.


Completely agree.


I just stated two things: 1) My usage of this vehicle will not involve situations where I would use cruise control. 2) My vote, as a customer, is that I don't need or want the expense or complexity or weight of a cruise control system in this particular car. That's *MY* vote. You get a vote too. Your opinion is just as valid as mine. I'm not sure you think my vote counts as much as yours.

I wasn't aware building a car was a democracy…

Seriously though, my point is just that in the final analysis, the Typ-1 will probably have cruise. That's it. Not saying my vote counts more, just that my candidate is more likely to win.


Run with me on this one:
If (in a parallel universe) Aptera came to you and said you have a choice: You can have a car on January 1 without cruise control, OR you can have a car on June 1 with cruise control. Which would you choose?

2nd questions:
Aptera offers Cruise Control as a $250 option. Do you buy it?

Just trying to gauge how much you want the feature.

I probably wouldn't take it, but that universe is highly unlikely. That's my point.

[randyd]

Run with me on this one:
If (in a parallel universe) Aptera came to you and said you have a choice: You can have a car on January 1 without cruise control, OR you can have a car on June 1 with cruise control. Which would you choose?
This is a tough one for me. Can I, in another parallel universe, have a third choice where I can add cruise control to my January Aptera? If so, then I would choose that option. If faced with only two choices, I guess I would wait.

2nd questions:
Aptera offers Cruise Control as a $250 option. Do you buy it?
Yes, at $250, I would definitely buy that option. At $400 for the factory installed option, I would start to look for after-market options that would cost less.

[garygid]

Even though:

1. Aptera knows that Cruise Control is a very popular option,
2. it probably only takes some computer firmware to implement,
3. probably no additional hardware or sensors are needed,
4. but, it does require some user "control buttons".

Aptera has not said that Cruise Control will be available, in any form.

Although Cruise Control might not be offered in the initial vehicle,
it is quite possible that it could be added by a firmware update
perhaps somewhere in the middle of 2009. However, that would
assume that the necessary user "controls" were available, or could
be added easily.

If a different steering wheel and new wiring are needed, then "just"
a firmware update would not do the job. But, the "controls" could be
on the touch screen, although that might not be the best place.
Or, the initial steering wheel might provide for sufficient user inputs.

[Louv]

I wasn't aware building a car was a democracy…

It is absolutely a democracy, we just vote after the candidate is "in office". Just look at all the votes that the Ford Excursion is getting. Or the Hummer. Or the Prius. And, strange but true, used Geo Metros have returned to having actual value. :-)

Products are developed to "get the most votes". And that vote is the almighty dollar. If Aptera (or any other company) wants to stay in business, they have to develop a vehicle people want. Features (like Cruise Control & Bluetooth) drive votes. So do drivetrains, transmission types, and comfortable seats. Style drives votes. Cupholders drive votes. Color drives votes. Safety (real and imaginary) drives votes.



Seriously though, my point is just that in the final analysis, the Typ-1 will probably have cruise. That's it.

Yup, completely agree. But as a contrarian, I like the world to know that not everyone wants the same things. I know this admission will probably get me kicked off the forum, but I own a 12-cylinder car. But I also want an electric vehicle. Forgive me, mother nature, for I have sinned... and will continue. I'm willing to pay for my sins.

Methinks we are in violent agreement, eh?

:-)

Hey, is my car here yet?

[gg222]

I know this admission will probably get me kicked off the forum, but I own a 12-cylinder car. But I also want an electric vehicle. Forgive me, mother nature, for I have sinned... and will continue. I'm willing to pay for my sins.

Yep, our limit here is 10-cylinders.

[Rat]

Yep, our limit here is 10-cylinders.
Mine has 5. I guess I'm safe.

[Louv]

Mine has 5. I guess I'm safe.

5? Acura Vigor? VW Jetta? Mercedes 300D? Audi (several)?
But I think we have digressed.

[gg222]

My guess is Volvo.

[Matthijs]

I only have a four cylinder automatic. Well it good enough with $9,50 a gallon. And it will take me well over all the speed limits. But I want an Aptera so bad and enjoy all the pleasures of electric driving.

[RainCaster]

I am a reformed gasaholic in that I gave up all of my 10+ cylinder cars and now I anxiously await my zero cylinder car. (typ1e)

<tic>I want my cup holder, and I want my 12v plugs for the TV and the shaver and the second cell phone and the radar detector and the fax machine... If I can't do it all when I am commuting, then what am I to do- pay attention to the road?</tic>

A 12 volt plug will provide more power than a USB plug. The USB standard is ~700mA if I remember right and a 12V plug can easily provide 20A. Although your cell phone will not accept that much power even on a fast charge cycle.

[garygid]

Some devices expect 12 volts, or have a DC-to-DC "power adapter"
to change the 12 volts into whatever they need.

Others expect 5 volts, and are often designed to charge (usually
somewhat slowly) from a USB port.

A standard "in-spec" USB port puts out a maximum of 500 ma, but only
100 ma until a higher current is actively negotiated for. However, some
"non-standard" USB ports will supply 500 ma right from the start.
Also, the output voltage should be regulated to close to 5.0 volts.

Only a "very non-standard" USB port would supply more than 500 ma.

[danieloneil01]

My guess is Volvo.


My guess is the Colorado.

[Rat]

My guess is the Colorado.
Volvo C70. "The Saint's" car. Sorry for the digression.

[evolutionmovement]

I thought "The Saint" drove a P1800. Did they make a new movie of that?

[mtrivich]

I have a 12 cyl '70 Lambo Espada, 8 cyl '56 F100, 4 cyl PT cruiser, 4 cyl VW sandrail, 2 cyl '70 Norton and I want my 1 cyl Typ1-h...now!
Mike

[BrianK]

As long as we're all throwing in our $.02:

I've *never* owned a car with a cup holder. I used to be proud of that fact, now I just find it a ridiculous perception of form/function, but based on little more than "so and so other car doesn't need one, so I don't either." Here's a few things that some people may not think of if they've always had cup holders:

- without a cup holder, stopping for fast food means a drink goes between your legs (even if you're taking the food somewhere else). Drinks are either very cold or very hot, get covered with condensation, and the lids don't seal that well.
- without a cup holder, long trips mean more things rattling loosely around the cabin (assuming you drink water or something while driving)
- without a cup holder, you lose one more place to stow things like your mobile or change for the toll-roads.
- without a cup holder, you will eventually find a place to put a cup - but it won't stay that well & will probably spill at some point, making you wish you had a cup holder.

Having a cup holder takes away nothing when it comes to travel. I can see no reason *not* to have a cup holder somewhere in the cabin - it adds no weight, reduces no amount of space, and if placed properly does not take away from the aesthetics of the interior either (granted, that last one is subjective).

Anecdote: I once stopped by Wendy's for lunch & went through the drive-thru so I could eat back at work. I got a big drink which went, as per usual, right between my legs. As I was pulling out of the parking lot, someone pulled a fast, illegal u-turn & almost hit me. I slammed on the breaks to *just* miss him. In doing so, the entire contents of that giant drink exploded over my wheel, my seat, the floor, and myself. The "explosion" was due not only to the sudden stop, but to me pushing the brake and clutch quickly & forcefully which squeezed my legs together & popped off the lid before it launched forward to hit the wheel.

So please, Aptera, include a cup holder. ;)

[BrianK]

More $.02 on cruise.

Cruise control adds very little weight (maybe a pound for the mechanism that pushes the gas pedal - they all still do this, right?).
It's a convenience item much like a power outlet - if you don't want it, it doesn't interfere with anything, so just don't use it.
It makes long drives so much nicer to those of us who use it.

I happen to use cruise on a daily basis in Los Angeles, proper. Just about any time when the traffic is clear enough in front of me that I can maintain a steady speed, I flip on cruise. Why? Well, Why not? When cruise is on, I don't have to look at my gauge cluster as often. It's nice.
When it's on, I pay no less attention than I did before. I keep my feet in about the same place, so brake-pedal access is as fast as it was when I was holding my foot over the accelerator.
Efficiency is a non-issue for me when it comes to cruise. I know I can get [slightly] better mileage without it because I can see further ahead & plan for hills/passing. It's all about convenience & comfort.

I see cruise as necessary as AC. Sure you can drive without it just fine, but it's so much nicer with it.

Again, it's one of those things that adds something and takes away almost nothing, so I see no reason not to have it. It should be an option at the very least.

[garygid]

In the Aptera, it is unlikely that a "pound for the mechanism" will
be necessary, since the gas pedal is (most likely) only connected
to the computer, which in turn controls the electric motor driver
circuitry.

However, some "control" buttons for the CC feature would be nice.

[Rat]

I thought "The Saint" drove a P1800. Did they make a new movie of that?
The remake (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.roadflow.com/uploaded_images/Saint_C70_3-723899.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.roadflow.com/2007/06/i-watched-saint-recently.html&h=136&w=320&sz=11&hl=en&start=22&sig2=I5uJCIzkczKETgZ9nNIygw&usg=__USw6tBpYKj8eGCS1aWvZQOssZBU=&tbnid=cM2moPe-Bg0m3M:&tbnh=50&tbnw=118&ei=507ASKnTOIe4sAPs9snNDg&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsaint%2Bc70%2Bvolvo%26start%3D20%26gb v%3D2%26ndsp%3D20%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN)

[OC-LA driver]

I think the cruise control is far more fuel efficient than the average driver, but marginally less efficient than a careful (can I say compulsive) driver. Driving a Prius 73 miles each way to work, including 50 miles each way in the carpool lane, I'd say the cruise control is very helpful to (1) avoid speeding excessively at night and (2) stretch that right leg sometimes. My experience is that holding my foot absolutely motionless over the gradual ups and downs in the road does give better mileage, compared to a cruise control accelerating on the uphills and throttling back (reducing speed and momentup) on the downhills.

However, the very best mileage in a paralell hybrid however comes from "tricking" it to cut out the gas motor as soon as possible. That is, rather than accelerating very gradually and having the gas motor continue operating once you achieve your target speed, I've coaxed higher mileage out of it by accelerating a bit above my target speed (with both motors), suddenly lifting my right foot a few millimeters so the car thinks I want to decelerate and cuts off the gas motor, keeping just enough pressure to maintain speed or let it bleed off slowly while only using the electric motor, and then pressing down as needed to get my speed above the target speed again. Compared to holding my foot steady and having the gas motor run all the time, this is the highest mileage method.

Yes it's a long boring commute :-) . And no I don't do this when there are people behind me who'd get annoyed at the gentle gas-and-glide fluctuations over time. Apparently there are aftermarket chips that turn off the gas motor earlier and/or let the battery bank deplete further before recharging with the gas motor, but I don't want to void the warranty trying it.

Isn't it nice, in a series hybrid we won't have to work that hard????

[evolutionmovement]

mtrivich - I came very close to buying a '71 Espada. Always had a soft spot for the weirdos. The frequent servicing forced my pragmatism to win the battle about buying it, as usual. Gave one instead to the main character in my second novel.

I just want to see the Aptera's cabin as simple as possible. I do agree in having cup holders if not just for a place to stash my sunglasses, note cards, and pens.

[daddio]

Since this is not an automobile does CA allow tinting of the two side windows and the rear window?:cool:

[PaulO]

Since this is not an automobile does CA allow tinting of the two side windows and the rear window?:cool:

Only if you also put hydraulics on the car.:jumping0007:

[garygid]

This Section 26708 seems to apply to "any motor vehicle":

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d12/vc26708.htm

Without medical paperwork, not much is allowed, but some
very light tinting seems to be acceptable, in some cases.

[danieloneil01]

Only if you also put hydraulics on the car.:jumping0007:


How does that apply to that, yes I know you were trying to be funny? I could see if he said 20" rims but tinting windows is something they do now to alot of new cars.

[Cap'n Ron]

What I want & want not:

- No cruise control. The car doesn't have a range long enough for the Driver to be tired. IMHO.

My Honda Insight doesn't have cruise control...It's a fuel waster. You can get much better range/mileage out of your car by varying the speed you drive. Nice gradual transitions from complete stops, "timing" the red lights, "roller-coasting" the small hills on a freeway, etc...

Even a small variation of 5MPH (plus or minus) on the rollers makes a big difference in fuel consumption. You're going 55MPH by the time you reach the top of a hill...and 65MPH at the bottom. You sort of work *with* gravity to your advantage. You still average 60MPH for the trip.

Cruise control will force the car to go 60MPH all the way up a hill against the force of gravity...and will "engine brake" the car to 60MPH all the way down the hill against the force of gravity...only to floor it again going up the next hill. Very wasteful.

Cap'n Ron. . .
800 miles on a 10.6 gallon tank of gas!!! :jumping0007: Good enough until my Aptera gets built!

[Cap'n Ron]

THAT being said, I would still want it...There are the odd occasions where I want to untie my shoes for a long trip and the cruise control is nice for those few moments. :D

And of course cup holders...seriously? Does anyone think a car *shouldn't* have cup holders?

...And of course A/C...although I think I've only turned mine on a dozen times in 37,000 miles...and that's 'cause my girlfriend is hot. Did I just say that? :happy0005:

Cap'n. . .

[Eyelawdoc]

I also own an Insight and agree with you regarding cruise control's effect on reducing mileage.

However, I am in the process of installing cruise control on my Insight and would like it on my Aptera as well. In the course of a long trip on the freeway it would really be nice to rest my right foot and leg for a brief period of time, traffic permitting.

[sk8ndad]

For me cruise control reduces stress...I set it at the speed limit and then I don't have to worry about getting a heavy foot and a visit from our friendly chippy.

[Mr Aptera]

I stand by my original request: No Cupholders. And I fully realize that I will lose that battle. Put down your friggin' Grande Latte and pick up the steering wheel.

I would, but I don't have a cup holder!

[Apt3448]

I would, but I don't have a cup holder!
Can't believe I missed that one! LOL
:sign0019:

[BrianK]

I would, but I don't have a cup holder!
HA! awesome. ;)

[garygid]

How about a place for a trash "bag" (or container),
and a place for a box of tissues?

In most cars there is no provision for either of these,
and I always have to add them.

[Rat]

How about a place for a trash "bag" (or container),
and a place for a box of tissues?

In most cars there is no provision for either of these,
and I always have to add them.
Yeah, me too. There could be a depression in the top of the console for the tissue box, which could double for a coin/sunglasses/whatnot cubby for those who don't need tissues (pick and flick folks). The trash could be handled by a small, rounded, plastic hook, like those used to hang coats above most rear windows in typical sedans, placed low on the back or inside (console side) of the passenger seat so that a plastic bag with a handle could hang from it behind that seat mostly out of sight.

[Apt3448]

Trash bags could be mounted on the doors. The peculiars of the way the :aptera: doors are hung ensures frequent emptying, without having to remember to take out the trash. :tongue0006:

[BrianK]

Trash bags could be mounted on the doors. The peculiars of the way the :aptera: doors are hung ensures frequent emptying, without having to remember to take out the trash. :tongue0006:
LOL!

That would work for drinks too. ;)

[G-Jet]

Sure, just let it fall out and leave it (?).

G

[Louv]

I would, but I don't have a cup holder!

Touché!!!

Allow me to re-phrase:

"Leave your drink behind and just drive."

I was nearly killed last Sunday by a woman eating onion rings while driving, and failing to pay attention to the road, her driving, or my existence. Only my awareness saved her (from having to pay my medical bills).

"Oh, that never happens to me. I can drink and drive at the same time", you say.

No, actually, you can't. The reason you THINK you can is because you didn't notice all of the near misses you have, because you are using the phone, eating your breakfast, drinking your latte, putting on mascara, shaving, reading a book, or whatever. You failed to see the pedestrians, the bicycles, the motorcycles, and the quiet electric vehicles.

I know, I know, this doesn't apply to you. Keep thinking that. It will let you sleep at night.

[Mr Aptera]

Touché!!!

I know, I know, this doesn't apply to you. Keep thinking that. It will let you sleep at night.

Actually, I ride a motorcycle, so at the moment, it doesn't apply to me. Although, I have gone through In'N'Out with my bike, and put my double double and fries right on top of the instrument cluster. Maybe I need a cup holder for my crotch rocket?

[Mr Aptera]

One more!

I can't believe noone has mentioned this, but I absolutely NEED a center arm rest! I just rented a car without one and I was constantly looking for it! So far, the pictures show that it's notably absent.

[garygid]

It is possible that there are no door-side arm rests either.
A seat with attached, built-in, swing-up arm rests might be reasonable.

[n_dawg]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3082/2401849429_b8def211ce_o_d.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2270/2401842879_d9a9e87567_o_d.jpg

There's a door armrest, by the looks of it.

[garygid]

Yes, there is a arm-rest / door-handle in the Mk-1 prototype.
It looks like it is "sunk" into the door.

What will happen in production when the "opening" window is added?

Also, is it positioned high enough to really function as a good armrest?

A seat with a swing-up interior armrest (or two armrests) might be helpful.
But, a door with a good armrest would be great.

We will know more when we see the production model.

[randyd]

Good point about the armrest. I use the one in the truck every time I drive it. Ditto for the door armrest.

Anybody know of a good after-market auto seat with armrests?

[KarenRei]

Do remember that those are early prototype seats, not what's actually going to be on the car. Here's what was on the car as of a month ago, and is likely to be the final seat:

http://www.daughtersoftiresias.org/images/Aptera/2008-08-02/Interior_SideView.jpg

[G-Jet]

Likely to be the final seat? you know this or just guessing?

You can see the arm rest on the door in that picture as well.

G

[OC-LA driver]

It seems the door armrest doubles as the handle to shut the door, so it's a good bet there'll be something there to lean on.

Speaking of the center console/armrest (that isn't there), I was wondering what happens if someone hits the console-mounted power button while tooling down the freeway. I hope the car will coast and not lock up!

It's a lot harder to accidentally hit a power button on the dash than down there where stuff can be set down upon it...

[garygid]

Would an interior-side armrest get in the way of the deployment
of the seatbelt's airbag?

Probably not, especially if the airbag is located a bit to the
outside of lap center, on the lower strap of the seatbelt.

[KarenRei]

Likely to be the final seat? you know this or just guessing?

You can see the arm rest on the door in that picture as well.

G

I have no additional information, but I certainly hope it doesn't take them the installation of half a dozen different types of seats before they can make up their minds! ;)

[Rat]

I don't like the idea of two levers protruding from the left side of the steering column so close together and looking so similar. I assume one is the turn signal. The other may be an adjustment lever to allow the steering column to move in/out/up/down. If it's short enough and far enough forward to be out of the way when driving, then no problem. I don't have a problem with putting extra controls on the end of the turn signal lever, like cruise control or wiper controls, but I don't like having to be careful about which lever I'm hitting or twisting. If you need a second lever, it's better to put it on the opposite side IMO.

[KarenRei]

Steve said something about levers being changed up at one point... I don't remember what it was, though. I think it was posted to this forum, so if anyone wants to dig...

[n_dawg]

Steve said that the floor-mounted headlight toggle (high/low beams) was removed. He never said what it was replaced with, though traditionally it's mounted on the levers.

[Eyelawdoc]

Traditionally in American automobiles, the headlight hi/lo selector was mounted on the floor and activated with the left foot. This was a good, ergonomically friendly design feature!

Unfortunately in the late 1970's and early 80's American designers decided to follow the Europeans and Japanese practice placing it on the collumn, along with the horn, turn signals, wheel tilt, wiper and washer controls, and cruise control. Too much stuff on too many stalks! It has become confusing and too easy to hit the wrong stalk at the wrong time in the process of driving the car! Because of this added complexity the steering collumn wiring on most cars has become a nightmare to troubleshoot and repair.

I'd like to see a return to the simple, elegant floor mount switch!

[evolutionmovement]

Don't recall ever hitting the wrong stalk except maybe the wipers once or twice when clumsily moving my hand from the wheel. My early '80's Subarus had a cool feature where the headlights and wiper switches were on pods that protruded from the dash between the gauges and steering column. They were in such positions that they could be flicked on or off with a finger without moving your hand from the wheel and left only the blinker stalk on the column.

[BrianK]

Touché!!!

Allow me to re-phrase:

"Leave your drink behind and just drive."
What if you pick up your drink while you're driving (i.e. drive-thru) & want to bring it back home/work to drink it? You have to carry it somewhere. A cup holder is the answer.

[Matthijs]

Don't recall ever hitting the wrong stalk except maybe the wipers once or twice when clumsily moving my hand from the wheel. My early '80's Subarus had a cool feature where the headlights and wiper switches were on pods that protruded from the dash between the gauges and steering column. They were in such positions that they could be flicked on or off with a finger without moving your hand from the wheel and left only the blinker stalk on the column.

In my 1987 190E Mercedes I have only 1 stalk. Up and down for signaling. Twist it counterclockwise for wipers. Push it for wish wash. Pull it for Hi-beam signaling.

http://img56.imageshack.us/img56/6171/ag07superbeeturnsignalsvf0.jpg

I just love it!

[garygid]

I see a 2nd stalk for cruise control.

[n_dawg]

Because of this added complexity the steering collumn wiring on most cars has become a nightmare to troubleshoot and repair.


Beneath the energy-absorbing shell lies a web of clever electrical engineering. Instead of clustering the circuit boards in one place, Aptera distributed them near individual systems. As a result, the wiring harnesses consist of no more than four wires each, which saves weight and cuts down on labor.

source (http://www.wired.com/cars/futuretransport/magazine/16-01/ff_100mpg?currentPage=4)

Hopefully this includes the steering column.

[Louv]

What if you pick up your drink while you're driving (i.e. drive-thru) & want to bring it back home/work to drink it? You have to carry it somewhere. A cup holder is the answer.

Starbucks just introduced a Camelbak for Lattes. Now you can drink, hands-free.

Johnson & Johnson Medical has introduced the Latte Intravenous Drip. Bypass your stomach entirely.

Winchester has introduced the Latte Paintball gun. Open wide and pull trigger. What could go wrong?

[Matthijs]

I see a 2nd stalk for cruise control.

I used that picture just as an example. :) That's no 1987 190E but an other MB model. But after 20 years they still use the same layout. I have no CC but I could build in one using the same stalk. So only 2 stalks total. In some models even the automatic gear selector on the right side of the steering wheel is a stalk. Really nice to operate.

http://www.egmcartech.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/review_mercedes_ml320_cdi_interior.jpg

[gg222]

I see a 2nd stalk for cruise control.

I think it is for tilting steering wheel.

[garygid]

Oops,
I was talking about the 2nd control "stalk" in the post prior to mine,
http://www.apteraforum.com/showpost.php?p=17321&postcount=87
not in the post after mine.

[evolutionmovement]

Most cars only have 2 stalks now. Been that way for a while. There's generally one for lights and one for wipers unless you have a dash switch for lights which, for some reason, some automakers cling to. I personally find the latter archaic and poor ergonomically, so much so that it would take a truly exceptional new car for me to look past it for purchase.

[garygid]

Yes, control of windshield wipers, lights, and turn signals
are often on one "stick".

Many cars also have a cluster (or two) of buttons on the steering wheel
for cruise control (and sometimes crude control of the radio/CD system).

I guess heater controls are mostly on the dash, because they usually
have to "adjust" mechanical flappers to route the airflow.

Unique to an "e" or "h" vehicle will be the possible:
1. adjustment of regeneration,
2. control of the ICE recharging cycle,
3. other ... ?

Other controls, the horn, the hazard flashers, and ??? are
also needed. Add interior lighting, door locking and unlocking, ...
and others?

Then, add GPS, extensive entertainment control, diagnostics functions,
timed or vehicle-stopped climate control, AC charging timing and control,
Alarm system configuration, RFID control, and ...
others?

[Apt3448]

the controls for the windshield wipers appear to be on the dashboard, as you can see here. The left most knob has the windshield wiper icon on top, and a button below right with an icons for squirting water on the windshield. The middle knob obviously is for AC. The third one I don't know for sure, but it seems to have a button next to it with a heater icon, so I guess it is the temp control. Note also the emergency light switch on the steering column.

Furthermore, the two stalks: the front one moves up and down and while i see in various images tow different versions of the icons, the presumably are left-right blinkers (you know, those little indicators too few people in LA seem to be able to find). Judging by the space around the second stalk it is to move back and forwards, but as far as I can tell it has no icons on it. But as the dashboard has no obvious know/button for lights, that must be it?

[mikekinney]

The rear lever looks like it could be used to tilt the steering wheel.

[Apt3448]

The rear lever looks like it could be used to tilt the steering wheel.
True, it could be. And I don't see another stalk/lever for that (though I remember a car with an almost flat handle for that underneath the steering column, under the assumption you would hardly ever use it). If you are right, then rotating the first stalk would then be for the lights?

[n_dawg]

1. adjustment of regeneration,


Why not control the regen with an inclinometer?

[Sloopy]

In "driv-dash-PassEyes.jpg" is that thing to the left of the brake pedal the hi/lo beam switch? Whatever it is, it looks like one of the wrinkles that Aptera is probably smoothing out.

[Apt3448]

In "driv-dash-PassEyes.jpg" is that thing to the left of the brake pedal the hi/lo beam switch? Whatever it is, it looks like one of the wrinkles that Aptera is probably smoothing out.
Oh, yes indeed, assume it has been smoothed out: Original quote from steve himself on this forum:

"It's an old-school style high-beam switch...long story, and won't make it into production.

-s"
Problem sometimes is that we are looking at pix of various (?) pre-production models, and we know only bits and pieces about what will make it into production.

[daddio]

http://editorial.autos.msn.com/listarticle.aspx?cp-documentid=635658
Focus on the safety ideas Aptera...