Spare tire/flat tire thoughts?

[DavidHoff]

All,
Does anyone know about the provision for a spare tire? I know now days you don't get many flats, but will there be a spare? Will it be a full size or a dounut? Or maybe a can of fix a flat? More weight is also the enemy. Just wondering if anyone had any thoughts? I know traveling on a long trip, a full size spare, came in real handy.

Thoughts?
Enjoy,
Dave

[pk-sd]

They might be some kind of run flat tires, so you mostly keep the spare at home, but take it with you on a long drive.

[c0mp13x]

There have been a couple of discussions on this forum of what the flat tire strategy will be for the Aptera. So far there is no definitive answer from the factory, just speculation by the forum posters.

My guess is that with low weight as a primary design parameter of the Typ-1, there will not be an on-board spare tire. There is limited low-height room in the area behind the front seats, and even a reduced size spare would have a major impact on the "15 grocery bag" capacity that Aptera has reported.

Motorcycles and most trikes don't carry spares, and flats are a relatively rare occurrence with those lightweight vehicles. I would think that the Aptera will come with a aerosol flat tire fix (http://autorepair.about.com/od/quicktips/fr/fixaflat_review.htm) or go to run flat tires (http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/tires/articles/117588/article.html). This will work for most punctures (ie nails, screws), but beyond that, a flat-bed tow will be necessary. Also, in a flat tire situation where you want to use aerosol flat tire fix, finding the tire valve stem under all of the wheel shrouds (pants/spats/covers) will take some time and coordination.

Flat tire discussions:
Post #9 in this thread: Butter's questions (http://www.apteraforum.com/showthread.php?t=272)

and in this thread: Changing a spare (tire) (http://www.apteraforum.com/showthread.php?t=397)

;)

[daddio]

Well we don't have children... so we would abort the child seat and the weight associated with it.... to bring on a spare tire! So "if" Aptera has not made plans for a spare this could be a nice option.
Maybe they will even introduce the :aptera: with limited roadside assistance like many manufacturers do?

[n_dawg]

Maybe they will even introduce the :aptera: with limited roadside assistance like many manufacturers do?

source (http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/new_cars/4237853.html?page=11)

For now, Aptera’s plan is to first sell cars only in California, with distributors in San Diego, Los Angeles and Menlo Park. But they’ll also have a fleet of Dodge Sprinter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_Sprinter) biodiesel service trucks to maintain customer cars and provide quick-charge service.

:)

[garygid]

I intend to buy a spare tire and wheel and leave them all
"ready-to-go" in the garage. Then, somebody could bring
it to me if I needed it and Aptera could not respond very quickly.

[APTERA 2356]

:rolleye0003: I wonder how you'd jack it off the ground to change a tire :scared0011:

[garygid]

In the front one might be able to jack under the steering knuckle.
In the rear, jacking under the lower end of the suspension swing
arm would seem to work.

I suspect that Aptera will make "pads" for jack-up lift points.

[A2008]

I agree with Gary, just as aircraft have jacking pads, I would expect Aptera to use something similar. I would like to have a spare tire, even at the expense of "grocery bag" room under the rear hatch.
(Is it a hatch or a door if it's hinged on the side?). On a cross-country trip, fifty miles on a run-flat or temp tire is not very far. And if you happen to be traveling on a holiday weekend, good luck finding a replacement tire of any kind. The "leave it in the garage" for local trips would work. Less weight to haul around.

[KarenRei]

Run-flat tires are not low rolling loss. Aptera will not use them. It will use Bridgestone Potenza RE92s.

I'm sure the recommended solution will be, "carry a can of fix-a-flat or compressed air".

[evolutionmovement]

Fix-a-flat works pretty well in most normal circumstances. I haven't had a spare tire in a car for over 10 years (I remove them for less weight). Run-flats are also heavier than an otherwise identical non-run-flat, more expensive, and offered in less sizes.

[garygid]

Also, a tire plug kit is light weight and could be useful.
Is there a "Can-of-Air" to add more air after using the
Fix-a-Flat or tire plug kit?

Probably just carry a small compressor to plug into the
"convenience" outlet (cig-lighter type socket).
But, get one that can inflate to 45 pounds?

Yes, local driving, where a friend could reasonably come to help,
allows one to use a different strategy than long distance trips.

Traveling in a "pod" also allows different strategies, like to carry
only one spare tire-and-wheel and jack for the whole group.

For long distance "solo" driving, maybe carry just the hard to find tire?

However, many common brands of tires come in a 165/65R14 size
that should work (in an emergency) to replace the Bridgestone.

[rotus8]

I carry a tire plug kit like this http://www.amazon.com/Blackjack-K40-Tire-Plug-Starter/dp/B000M61R2M/ref=sr_1_34?ie=UTF8&s=automotive&qid=1213916012&sr=8-34 in my DD even though I also carry a spare in the car. I also have a very small compressor. I have fixed several flats on my car, and also a number of others. I have never mounted a spare. I would expect this would be fine for the typ1.

[JakesOnline]

I imagine Aptera will include some type of roadside assistance.

[n_dawg]

I imagine Aptera will include some type of roadside assistance.

Er, quit imagining: http://apteraforum.com/showpost.php?p=8945&postcount=5

[garygid]

Yes, but while the "fleet" has not achieved "full" coverage,
how long would somebody have to wait?

Hopefully those needing help will be few, and the times
infrequent, so even a "fleet" of one could cover
a lot of area if one allows for a 5-hour wait time.

[daddio]

Of course you will not have the exhaust on the typ 1e to provide what is shown here:
http://www.fahad.com/pics/exhaust_air_jack.jpg
.., but you get the idea... an air cushion jack may gently lift her!

[KarenRei]

Yes, but while the "fleet" has not achieved "full" coverage,
how long would somebody have to wait?

I wouldn't be surprised if they contracted out to an established company for something like this.

[Matthijs]

Of course you will not have the exhaust on the typ 1e to provide what is shown here:
http://www.fahad.com/pics/exhaust_air_jack.jpg
.., but you get the idea... an air cushion jack may gently lift her!

Well for the Typ-1e an 12V air compressor could be used! :)

[garygid]

Here is one supplier (http://airjackusa.com/contact.htm), about $64 for the 2-ton "jack".
I emailed to ask about a suitable air compressor.
Ideally, the compressor would be one that could
also be used to inflate tires to 45 psi.

[Matthijs]

Here is one supplier, about $74 for he 2-ton "jack".
I emailed to ask about a suitable air compressor.
Ideally, the compressor would be one that could
also be used to inflate tires to 45 psi.
Well it seems even the cheapest compressors can inflate to 200/300psi, they are around $13,- but that would take awhile I guess. Well there are options enough out there for every budget. (Link (http://www.antonline.com/p_COMP01-GP_331061.htm))

lOmAe-WKQmo

But what about back pressure on the engine if you use it with an typ-1h and how do you let it idle? And letting all the exhaust fumes come back out of the airjack won't be a nice experience I think. :sick0018:

Edit: I moved some tire related posts to this thread.


Originally Posted by NmGfan
Roadside flat repair is pretty much limited to canned fix-a-flat stuff (the only spare one can carry). Like all motorcyclists, I don't ever want a flat tire while traveling down the road; it pretty much means a flat-bed tow ride to an understanding/motivated shop. I hope the 2e has a jack included that will work on any of the three corners to lift the vehicle high enough to change a tire, otherwise... plenty of stress for the owner.

[KarenRei]

Roadside flat repair is pretty much limited to canned fix-a-flat stuff (the only spare one can carry)

Never tried a patch kit?

[NmGfan]

Never tried a patch kit?
Sure, used 'em all the time on my bicycles as a kid. My '78 R100RS BMW came with a patch kit and a hand pump attached under the seat! However, removing the rear tire on the BMW is a significant project that takes about 30-45 minutes on a nice clean garage floor and then one can begin to remove the tire with the include (puny) tire irons. It can be done according to the owners manual, but it takes a stupid amount of time and when I asked the old timers at the BMW shop, they just laughed and asked me if "I" had tried it. Apparently few were successful...
As for removing an automobile tire from its rim, Ha! There is a reason tire shops use pneumatically powered machinery to apply and remove tires from rims; it's pretty much the only way to do it without damaging the tire bead. Just for fun, buy a set of tire irons, let the air out of an old tire mounted on a 'beater' rim, and try to remove it from the rim with one other person helping (the hopefully present passenger). Realistically, it isn't practical or safe, so I'd stick with the canned goop or the tire plug until a tire shop is found for a pro repair or replacement.
:happy0025:

[APTERA 2356]

NmGfan,
sounds like your talking about a tube repair not tire plug kit

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200317489_200317489

like this one. I ride bikes and tube patches are a bear to get to seal

[NmGfan]

NmGfan,
sounds like your talking about a tube repair not tire plug kit

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200317489_200317489
like this one. I ride bikes and tube patches are a bear to get to seal

Yeah, old guy here; to me a patch kit is exactly that, a collection of thin rubber patches (circular or square) and a tube of adhesive. The patch is glued onto an inner tube. We used to light the adhesive with a match to soften the rubber tube for better adhesion, worked every time.
Plug Kits are for tubeless tires; never used one... not recommended for motorcycles.

:happy0025:

[speednut]

My Mini came with the awful run flats, never EVER again! Best performance modification I've ever made to the care was replacing them with standard tires.

My Mini is my daily commuter and has not had a spare tire or RFs for 2.5 years now. I carry a good quality compressor and several plug kits that others have already linked to. I've had my tires repaired due to nail punctures 5 times now. Each and every time it was a slow leak (typical, yes?). I could fill the tire up, get home, and take it to the local tire shop for a proper plugging. I've never had to use the plug kits. Keep in mind that the plug kits you install from the outside of the tire are for temporary usage until you can get to a tire store for a proper repair made from the inside of the tire.

Don't think for a second that the run flats will save you either. I've seen Minis with run flats get a side puncture and the run flat was rendered useless leaving them stranded. Also, once you've driven on a run-flat with improper inflation, you are suppose to buy a new one to replace it. The stiff sidewall cords have a very limited lifespan.

So I'm not worried about not having a spare or run-flats on a commuter 2e. :jumping0001: (famous last words...)

[Aptera#1434]

To semi quote Karen: "What's wrong with patch ("plug") kits? Am I the only one who's familiar with these things?

http://www.ehow.com/how_2120805_use-tire-patch-kit.html
http://www.nextag.com/tire-repair-kit/stores-html"

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Karen- The "Thirty One Inc" tire repair gun kit looks like a winner!

These plugs are supposed to be temporary, however I have used the strip type plugs w/rubber cement glue and run the tires until the lifespan is used up without any problems.

Hey-what about keeping a Honda Insight spare for a rimmed spare for the Aptera? That Honda spare is extremely lightweight magnesium. (providing the lug pattern is the same)

[jhm614]

My Mini came with the awful run flats, never EVER again! Best performance modification I've ever made to the care was replacing them with standard tires.

My Mini is my daily commuter and has not had a spare tire or RFs for 2.5 years now. I carry a good quality compressor and several plug kits that others have already linked to. I've had my tires repaired due to nail punctures 5 times now. Each and every time it was a slow leak (typical, yes?). I could fill the tire up, get home, and take it to the local tire shop for a proper plugging. I've never had to use the plug kits. Keep in mind that the plug kits you install from the outside of the tire are for temporary usage until you can get to a tire store for a proper repair made from the inside of the tire.

Don't think for a second that the run flats will save you either. I've seen Minis with run flats get a side puncture and the run flat was rendered useless leaving them stranded. Also, once you've driven on a run-flat with improper inflation, you are suppose to buy a new one to replace it. The stiff sidewall cords have a very limited lifespan.

So I'm not worried about not having a spare or run-flats on a commuter 2e. :jumping0001: (famous last words...)

I'm on the flip side of that -- I had run flats on my first and now my second Mini. The first one, never really needed them. Had two nail punctures during the life span of the car, the runs flats worked as advertised but I think I could have gotten by with a can of fix-a-flat, at least to get me to the shop. However, on my second Mini, I was out in the middle of -nowhere- halfway between Dallas and Tyler, on nice, twisty two lane road with a posted speed of 70. I'm north of the posted limit when the TPS monitor starts blinking. I pull over and, before I can get out of the car, I can hear the "whoosshhh" sound. Three flats -- rear drive side and both tires on the passenger side, riddled with some kind of overgrown roofing nails. I had to drive 30 miles into Tyler with zero air pressure in the three tires.

I still don't think they would be a good idea for the Aptera -- I mean, by definition, run flats are overbuilt and that seems like the opposite of the Aptera design ethic.

The worst thing about Run Flats (other than their cost)? Road noise -- those are some noisy tires.

[n_dawg]

This tire plug kit (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000ET9SAK/) looks like a good bet – compact, complete and it uses the T-handle design. Everything fits in the handle, so I'll bet it's light-weight too. Perfect complement to the Aptera's design. ;)

One of those, a compact-car can of fix a flat, and a pump should be all you need for 90% of tire incidents.

For jacking, I really like the device Matthijs posted. An air jack that hooks up to the compressor would probably be smaller/lighter than a conventional jack, and would eliminate the manual labor involved. Perfect synergy!