PDA

View Full Version : EV/Gas vehicle financial calculator: planning


KarenRei
04-02-2008, 02:51 PM
I'm thinking about making a website that does in-depth financial calculations for people considering replacing their gas vehicles with EVs (or who simply want to know how much a particular vehicle would cost them). I'm looking for design ideas, particularly on the issue of maintenance.

How should maintenance be modelled? Should there be a flat number that the user has to guestimate that's used for every year? Should there be a number that the user guestimates that then gets adjusted according to some curve as the car ages, and if so, what curve? Should I go in-depth on maintenance, enumerating all significant parts that could fail and at what rate/with what probability (user-customizable for their particular vehicle, of course, probably with presets for particular vehicles), and then use that to calculate a flat rate that's used for every year? Or adjust that rate by a hard-coded curve, as above? Or actually simulate failures of each type of part along a Poisson distribution, to get the proper curve mathematically? And if we are including every significant part that could fail, would anyone here be willing to help with estimates on how much different vehicle parts cost and what their mean time to failure is? Hmm, if we did enumerate parts, I'd also need data on typical warranties for given parts and both the part cost and labor costs (perhaps labor should be listed by time, and then we could let the user set a per-hour cost for labor so all labor costs can be adjusted together).

This has been the main stumbling block holding me back from making such a calculator. A while back, I made one for solar -- see here:

http://www.daughtersoftiresias.org/progs/insolation/

As far as I know, It's by far the most in-depth solar calculator on the net. The part I found most essential is that it doesn't just give you payback periods, but actually takes into account rate of return and mortgage length at any given interest rate, as well as inflation and so forth. I'd love to do something like this for EVs and gasoline vehicles, if only I could find a fair way to tackle maintenance. Raw guestimates of overall maintenance costs seem like a very poor thing to use in a calculator, but I don't have the data for how much different car parts cost or how long they last.

futura
04-02-2008, 04:18 PM
I think initially, a tool like your insolation calculator would be fine with cost of maintenance derived from HEV's like Prius and Insight (regen brakes mean less brake-wear) high PSI, smaller tires mean more frequent tire replacement, etc.
Long term, it might be interesting to do something interactive where your cost/reliability model is built up from empirical user input (kind of Kalman filter-like). If you provided an access point where all the (soon to be legion) EV owners could post their vehicle type (Volt, Tesla, Zap, Aptera,,EV or PHEV) and bi-annual expenses you could have a one-of-a-kind data base for this new technology. It would be more accurate and comprehensive than trolling for blogs and more transparent than what comes from the car companies (and J.D. Power) themselves. Could turn into a very useful data set.
My $0.02.
Cheers.

P.S. I can't find a spot on your insolation calculator to input my inverter efficiency (~94%). Adds a few years onto my payback time!

KarenRei
04-02-2008, 04:24 PM
Inverter efficiency is part of the derate factor :)

The problem with collecting user data.. not only do you need a lot of it for each vehicle, and not only do you have to trust that it's accurate and comprehensive, but most EVs that people would be considering don't exist yet on the market. :P And even when they do, they'll be starting out in low volume, making data even harder to come by. That's why I was more focused on a part-by-part approach.

Dolphyn
04-02-2008, 05:56 PM
Probably the biggest "maintenance" item is going to be battery replacement when needed, but I don't know how you're going to come up with any accurate numbers for battery lifetime or future cost.

I'm hoping EEStor or equivalent technology will come through and make the question moot. :)

KarenRei
04-02-2008, 06:11 PM
Actually, that's a relatively easy one; A123 expects their systems to last "10+ years and 7000+ cycles". Other lithium phosphate batteries should be similar.

The harder issue with batteries will be, "what will they cost in 10 years"? The answer is, "probably a lot less", but it's hard to be more specific than that. Of course, even in 10 years, that doesn't mean that you *have* to replace the battery -- that just means that you may start noticing a bit of diminished range.

No need to put all your eggs in the EEStor basket; there are lots of neat battery techs in the lab right now :)