Will weather prevent Aptera from making it to other states?

[Holander]

A buddy of mine brought up the fact that this car would probably perform absolutely terribly in snow and ice covered roads. I'm really having a hard time coming up with an argument with him. The way the wheels are and the fact that it only has 3 of them can't make it very controllable in icy conditions. Do you think this will prevent Aptera from selling their cars in states like NY where I live?

[IanO]

In my opinion, not really, for the same reason people up north still buy roadsters and convertibles. The Aptera as a second car is still suitable for the other 90% of the year.

More evidence: three wheeled microcars were very popular in Britain and the rest of Northern Europe post-WWII even though that area gets even more snow than the US.

I'm also told that these lightweight microcars handle well on snow. From Wikipedia:
The small size improves handling by reducing the angular inertia. The Messerschmitt and Spatz have been described as much better than ordinary cars on snow and ice.

[3-4-me]

I'm thinking a couple of ski's, a studded rear tire, and viola
you've pretty much got a snomobile.:D

Seriously though, Volkswagens do great in the snow, with the weight over the drive wheels.
My bet is the weight distribution puts a large percentage on the rear end. Not having a differential, means the drive wheel is always turning. Tire choice will be the big factor.
Obviously deep snow might be a problem.

[in4mer]

I'm thinking a couple of ski's, a studded rear tire, and viola
you've pretty much got a snomobile.:D


i will buy your conversion package. and who knows? without those honking great wheels up front, might even lower the Cd a little.

i wanna see a team of huskies pulling one!

[KarenRei]

I, too, would like to know how it deals with snow and ice. I assume there's no traction control or ABS? Because when I deal with ice and snow, traction control is a big help, and I do my best to avoid needing ABS, but if I ever did...

[cogito]

from: http://www.aptera.com/ask.php

How stable is the Aptera? Can the Aptera easily roll-over?

Unlike many 3-wheel vehicle designs that were abandoned in the 80's due to their instability the Aptera has two wheels in the front and a single rear wheel eliminating any tendency to roll-over. The Aptera also features traction control, a low center of gravity and a wide track width which makes for a very stable platform that increases cornering stability without sacrificing performance.

[KarenRei]

Well, given that, and given that I can't see why they wouldn't include at least regenerative ABS (should hardly be any weight penalty for that), that's probably good enough for my needs. :)

[basjoos]

I don't see snow and icy roads being any more of a problem with the Aptera than it is with any other car. The microcars common in Europe during the 50's had no problems getting around in the winter and the Messerschmitt KR200 (a 3 wheel car) was considered to be an excellent car for driving in snow. They even sold skis that could be mounted on the front wheels of the Isetta (another 3 wheeler) so it could be driven on deep snow-covered roads. Lightweight cars have less inertia and are easier to control on icy roads than heavier cars.

[aptera1213]

i'm not too sure....rear wheel drive sucks in the snow...and one wheel rear wheel drive has to suck even more...

[basjoos]

i'm not too sure....rear wheel drive sucks in the snow...and one wheel rear wheel drive has to suck even more...

The original air-cooled VW beetle was rear wheel drive and it was one of the best cars for driving in the snow that there ever was. What's critical is that the bulk of the car's weight is sitting over the drive wheel(s), which is what you get with the front engine/front wheel drive and rear engine/rear wheel drive configurations, but not with front engine/rear wheel drive. Other than the Porsche 911, there aren't any rear engine/rear wheel drive cars currently sold in this country, so many people aren't familiar with that engine/drive configuration and its characteristics. Those 3-wheel microcars I mentioned above were rear engine/rear wheel drive. I'm not sure what the front to rear weight distribution of the Aptera is, since it has the batteries and/or gas engine in the front and its electric drive motor/drivetrain in the back, but if it has too little weight in the back, then it may have traction problems in the snow.

[GCustom]

but we can still make skis for the front wheels

[3-4-me]

The original air-cooled VW beetle was rear wheel drive and it was one of the best cars for driving in the snow that there ever was. What's critical is that the bulk of the car's weight is sitting over the drive wheel(s),
I couldn't agree more.
A couple of sandbags do wonders for weight distribution.

[LQUAN]

The rear end of Aptera is very light. I initially thought the battery pack is at the rear, which would help on weight distribution. Oversteering can make the tail wag. Putting the battery will kill the trunk space. The front is too small to be a trunk. Since the rear wheel is very close to the front and almost under the driver, I am not too concern about weight distribution. I just wish the rear tire is wider to get more traction.

[futura]

The rear end of Aptera is very light. I initially thought the battery pack is at the rear, which would help on weight distribution. Oversteering can make the tail wag. Putting the battery will kill the trunk space. The front is too small to be a trunk. Since the rear wheel is very close to the front and almost under the driver, I am not too concern about weight distribution. I just wish the rear tire is wider to get more traction.
Without getting into the whole tire width vs traction issue, I'm guessing Aptera has pretty smart weight distribution. Old VW's had about a 35/65 front/back distribution as I recall. They had a tendency to oversteer and if the braking load (front/back) got out of whack, that back end would whip around to the front. Mid-engine designs (like Porsche-Boxster) are best for handling and braking and Aptera looks to have a pretty good center of mass between the front wheels and back. Look how much of the body weight is towards the back and with one wheel in the back the normal force is all on the "traction" wheel. They've got regen-braking. I'd love to see a computer controlled drive system for the front wheels a la 911-4S. 3WD anyone?
Here's the YouTube vid I like to watch when these handling issues come up:
9pBM557dsdg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pBM557dsdg

[compasteedee]

In my opinion, not really, for the same reason people up north still buy roadsters and convertibles. The Aptera as a second car is still suitable for the other 90% of the year.

I don't think you have been North in a while...There is snow and winter conditions in the North far more than 10% of the time.

The original bug was good on ice not because the engine was over it's driving wheels, but because of it's relatively low weight, and short wheelbase. They are great as long as you are in control, but if you ever lose control, good luck ever getting it back. When you have that much weight on one end, and you start spinning, you are going for a ride. A car with a bias towards rear weight and RWD will always be prone to oversteer, which can be far more disconcerting and difficult to re-gain control than understeer(of course depending on the drivers experience).

They are actually now saying, however, that rear wheel drives have more control, if you know how to use them, in the winter than front wheel drive. The problem? It is pretty much a joke how easy it is in North America to get a license, so the VAST majority of drivers on the road, are rather poor drivers, and lack the skill to handle a RWD in the winter.

[cburk]

Just wondering if anyone has more thoughts on this subject since the Aptera is now going to be a front wheel drive car. Seems like this would make a big difference in driving in snow and ice.

Aptera is going to have to make sure this car can drive on snow if they want to have market penetration in most of the USA. Most people aren't going to spend $25k on a car they can only drive 6 months out of the year.

[KarenRei]

You'll be getting plenty of feedback from me about how it deals with snow and ice, probably this next winter. We had been considering leaving it in CA until spring or summer and doing my cross-country trip then, but now we're leaning more toward two-cross country trips -- a simple, more southerly and less roundabout one this winter, and the big elaborate one next summer. So it'll go through an Iowa winter. :)

[DSC OFF]

Just make sure you take the wheel pants off and put on some 4 season tires, and it should do just as well as any other front wheel drive car IMO.

[HadleyRille]

but we can still make skis for the front wheels
Well, that's going to make for some loud slapping sounds and a very rough ride. Knock yourself out, though. :-)

OK, I know the comment was from before the FWD announcement, but I liked the image of the spinning skis.

[KarenRei]

That post from back when it was thought to be RWD. :)

[KarenRei]

Just make sure you take the wheel pants off and put on some 4 season tires, and it should do just as well as any other front wheel drive car IMO.

Apparently just lowering pressure can be a suitable, if imperfect, stopgap:

http://scitation.aip.org/getabs/servlet/GetabsServlet?prog=normal&id=TSTCAU000026000002000064000001&idtype=cvips&gifs=yes

There are apparently some LRR winter tires out there:

http://www.consumersearch.com/snow-tires/best-for-harsh-winters

Three ones mentioned were:

* Nokian Hakkapeliitta R
* Michelin X-Ice Xi2
* Yokohama Ice Guard ig20

Clearly they're not going to perform like the Potenzas in terms of rolling resistance, but they'd do better than other winter tires.