Had a little talk with my credit union ...

[gg222]

I called my credit union today to tell them the posiblity of getting a loan (when the time comes) to purchase the Aptera. The main reason for the call was to see if the Aptera would be included in the 1/4% APR discount on loans when you finance a qualified Hybrid Technology vehicle (wasn't sure the Aptera would be concidered a vehicle or a motorcycle). I directed the man on the phone to Aptera's web site and he put me on hold to talk to his manager. He can back and told me (and I can almost see his point) that they would not "at this time" give out loans for this car. The reason, he said, was they will need to first establish if this car will be able to maintain it's value. He said they don't want to issue loans out and after a couple months discover that the car was junk and have customers just walk away from the vehicle and the loan. He did say that you could always take out a personal loan (higher APR) just not the auto loan.

[SpyderMike]

This speaks to my response to another post that 50-75% of the deposits will drop out when it comes time to put the money up. Unless Aptera can get a relationship with an established financial institution to make loans, it could be more costly to own (given the current credit crisis and economy). You certainly don't want to go out and borrow from your home or 401k... bu tyou are into personal guaranteed secured LOC or something at a higher rate. Or, yikes, a credit card. The insurance actuaries need some time to develop numbers to judge risk on this new thing.

[KarenRei]

I assume that Aptera will be like all car dealers (they're going to run their own dealerships, at least at first) and offer their own loans. Only the rare people like me actually need to be able to put forth all the money up front ;)

[SpyderMike]

they won't be able to do that out of the chute. they will need the cash. Most dealerships do no thandle thier own financing...it it through a third party. The third party has to have some track record on the vehicle to establish risk and set assurances.

[KarenRei]

I seriously doubt that Aptera is going to spend a fortune to build thousands of vehicles and squander most of the orders by not making sure that customers can get financing.

[SpyderMike]

Yes, that would be the prudent thing to do (even though 20 million, or what ever they have raised, isn't a fortune anymore - especially when it is someone elses money).

It would be nice to see such an announcement in the not too distant future (as to how the financing will be handled) so that deposit holders can get ready for the transaction (instead of saying "come get it - oh, um, wait").

I can still remember when financing wasn't the way to buy a vehicle and it wasn't that long ago - and it wasn't until real recent that some of the big automakers jumped into the finance game and started their own finance companies to reap the rewards of Americas obsession with debt (oh, and sell cars).

[evolutionmovement]

Most car companies' financial divisions are far more profitable than their manufacturing. I would think Aptera would have to figure something out on that end, maybe getting together with a financial service. Good thing is, by the time (if) they ever start selling them here, they'll have to have it worked out or at least have a track record that would maybe satisfy a credit union or bank.

[mmalc]

Only the rare people like me actually need to be able to put forth all the money up front ;)

I wonder what are the demographics of prospective purchasers. I'd also probably be looking to just buy the car outright. It may be that would-be Aptera owners have more disposable income than the average?

[SpyderMike]

I would think Aptera would have to figure something out on that end, maybe getting together with a financial service. Good thing is, by the time (if) they ever start selling them here, they'll have to have it worked out or at least have a track record that would maybe satisfy a credit union or bank.

Exactly, and they will need to line that up and announce that prior to cranking production. You don't want to build a bunch and have them sit in a parking lot. You want the money to flow...

[Chupacabra]

I was planning on using my Heloc as a backup to buy the Aptera... when the market picks up and I sell my place it will all be paid off. My mortgage is low enough that I can hold onto my place for years and not have to sell. But like Karen mentioned they will probably have their own financing and I might not have to.

[evansm76]

I contacted my bank/insurance company (not a credit union) and they didn't seem to be so hesitant. They had provided loans to Smart Car buyers, although I understand the Smart Car is affiliated with Daimler Benz, an established manufacturer.

Having said that, if there IS a problem with car loans, many on the list will drop off and those will be replaced by those who learn about the car after they are on the street and can pay cash. Early production rates will be very low and, unless the car has significant problems, I think there will be plenty of buyers while the car establishes a track record. If the $30K price holds, there may be quite a resale market for a car that gets a 1000% increase in gas mileage as gas crosses $4.

Cheers,
Mark
Corona, CA
#1681 Typ-1h

[A1phaGeek]

On their site they claim that they should have financing and insurance in place before the vehicles go on sale.

...but, I'll believe it when I have a loan in hand. I am a working stiff, so I will not have cash on hand to skip the financing option.

[sck_nogas]

When I bought my Renaissance Tropica EV, I got a loan from San Diego County Credit Union and insurance through AAA with few problems.
But, at first I did not know if I wanted to buy what was obviously a first-run vehicle. Iwas still suppossed to get #110 and they would have worked out a few kinks by then. So I waited some more. But, then in March of 1996, I could not take it anymore. I went and talked with my Credit Union, and tried to get a loan.

No, they said. It's an electric, we don't know what it's worth. Negotiation. Well, okay, only if you pay 20% down. Well, that's worked out, now to get insurance. Call AAA of California (my insurance agent), they say "How many cylinders?" I say "0", they get confused, they ask "Manual or Automatic Transmission?" I say, "None." The get REAL confused.
So, it's negotiation time with the Insurance agent. Finally, we agree, they agree, the bank agrees.

The hardest part was getting the DMV to actually agree that the car could be registered, but once I did that I had a blissful time driving a prototype EV for over 5 years & 17,000 miles.:happy0025:

Scott
PS> The URL for the story is http //nogas.org/zebra/story.html but I can't post URLs yet... :(

[Dubito]

I wonder what are the demographics of prospective purchasers. I'd also probably be looking to just buy the car outright. It may be that would-be Aptera owners have more disposable income than the average?
Over the years I’ve owned ten cars and a motorcycle and never had a car payment, I always buy with cash the car I can afford. In high school that was a $500 triumph. I’m 44 yrs. old and Aptera will be my first new vehicle. I put aside some cash to buy a used E320 CDI but didn’t when I saw the Aptera. (it’s also cheaper than the used mercedes) Yesterday I saw diesel at over $5/gal here in LA.

[gistmarrs]

For those that won't be paying cash, the Home Equity loan is probably the best choice if Aptera's financing doesn't materialize. One big advantage is that the interest is tax deductible.

Yesterday I saw diesel at over $5/gal here in LA.

I put $100 in diesel in my truck yesterday and barely got 1/2 tank! I need an Aptera soon.

[gkra]

Yeah, financing will definitely be necessary, and I'm sincerely hoping that Aptera will have some sort of package to offer us. I could probably set enough aside between now and when I'm likely to actually get asked for the money, but lordy knows there are enough other things we need to pay for in that time (a new primary car, work on the house, etc.)

I could save the money much faster without the mortgage, but I kind of like having a roof of my own. :)

[Dubito]

I could probably set enough aside between now and when I'm likely to actually get asked for the money, but lordy knows there are enough other things we need to pay for in that time (a new primary car, work on the house, etc.)
I was planning on using aptera as my primary car. I don’t mean to hijack this thread, but do most of you plan to use aptera merely as a commuter car?

[gkra]

I was planning on using aptera as my primary car. I don’t mean to hijack this thread, but do most of you plan to use aptera merely as a commuter car?

Personally, I'm going for the 1e because I want a commuter car that would also be capable of taking me around town (i.e., the greater San Diego area) for the day, too. I think I have a >120 mile round-trip excursion maybe once every 2-3 months, so the 1e is more or less perfect for my needs.

Before we stumbled upon the Aptera, my wife and I had already decided that we were, at a minimum, going to go for a hybrid (either Prius or Camry) for our new primary car, anyway. Since we're planning a family, the Toyota choices make the most sense to us right now for the "family" car. The Aptera, though, is absolutely perfect for 95% (or more) of my driving needs, especially once my wife stays home to raise the children we plan on having (and uses the larger car).

The Aptera also makes me feel far less guilty about having to break the carpool and come in to work with a second car on those days when my schedule doesn't fit our carpool. Currently we're in a 3-person carpool of myself, my wife and a friend, since we all work at UCSD. Burning another 2-3 gallons of gas (depending on traffic) every time I have to stay late or come in late just bothers me.

[gistmarrs]

do most of you plan to use aptera merely as a commuter car?

I hope to switch to the Aptera for my primary car and relegate the truck to pulling my fifth wheel. I went with the 1h since I make monthly(or more frequently) trips to the LA area which is about 200 miles each way. The 1h really works out perfect, since most of the time I'm close enough to work to only use battery power, but then I have the reserve to get me to LA when needed.

[KarenRei]

My ability to use my Typ-1e for ~98% my miles* or just ~75% of my miles** depends solely on whether they offer any fast charge options. So, we'll see what happens.

** -- that 2% being when I have to carry around more than two people.
** -- that other 23% or so being from when I go on long trips.

[SpyderMike]

Using the equity in your house is smart for two reasons. The loan is easy to get assuming you have equity. the intrest is also tax deductable. WIN WIN


More like LOSE LOSE - never ever borrow against your house for things other than improving your investment in the house. YIKES!

Especially don't borrow against your house to buy one of the worst investments possible - a car. DOUBLE YIKES!

BAD, BAD, BAD...

[gistmarrs]

More like LOSE LOSE - never ever borrow against your house for things other than improving your investment in the house. YIKES!

Especially don't borrow against your house to buy one of the worst investments possible - a car. DOUBLE YIKES!

BAD, BAD, BAD...

I don't understand that logic. Why would you prefer to borrow money against a car where the interest isn't tax deductible than borrow against your house where it is deductible? Unless the interest is substantially lower, it doesn't make sense.

[SpyderMike]

Because it is BAD BAD BAD to borrow against your long term investment - the roof over your head. Read about the current credit crisis and look at what is happening to people. Poeple borrowing too much against their homes or with bad terms. Lose your job, lose your home.

I never said borrow money to pay for the car.

I am constantly amazed by a society that thinks debt is reasonable and acceptable. Once you are debt free you will understand. Debt for anything other than your home (unless you can of course pay cash) should not be considered. You end up paying more than the thing (whatever it is) is worth and you don't own it until it is paid off. Cash is king. If you can't afford it, then don't buy it.

Think "delayed gratification". Once you can pay cash for it and own it, you feel better about it. My opinion based on my experience.

That is what I am saying - I will step off my soapbox now.

[gkra]

I am constantly amazed by a society that thinks debt is reasonable and acceptable. Once you are debt free you will understand. Debt for anything other than your home (unless you can of course pay cash) should not be considered. You end up paying more than the thing (whatever it is) is worth and you don't own it until it is paid off. Cash is king. If you can't afford it, then don't buy it.

I constantly fantasize about what life would be like without my mortgage payment. :D

[SpyderMike]

I constantly fantasize about what life would be like without my mortgage payment. :D


real nice! The sooner it is gone the better.

That is why I think people who borrow against their house and effectively extend their mortgage are nuts. I am currently helping a 78 year old figure out how his family is going to pay for the daily care he will need in the next 10 years because they have a nice balance on their Line Of Credit and a mortgage AT 78!!! They are screwed because they bought into debt as a way of life. They have to lose it all to hope that Medicaid will pick them up. Nice deal for the family members that don't need the care...but have their assets depleted to take care of the eldest.

[danieloneil01]

For those that won't be paying cash, the Home Equity loan is probably the best choice if Aptera's financing doesn't materialize. One big advantage is that the interest is tax deductible.


I put $100 in diesel in my truck yesterday and barely got 1/2 tank! I need an Aptera soon.


Let me get this straight. You have a huge truck and will wait for a 2 seater green car?

Why not just buy a used crappy looking car or truck that gets good mileage now and just resale it when you get the Aptera?


And I'm glad I searched before posting my question. Say you have decent credit and would get 8% through your bank for a regular ole Honda at 30k. What is the rate going to be for a non car loan to get the Aptera? Ballpark is fine.

[Raiyn]

Let me get this straight. You have a huge truck and will wait for a 2 seater green car?

Whoa whoa whoa! Step back and take a breath! There are valid reasons for him owning a diesel truck, namely pulling his fifth wheel trailer.
Look at it this way, at least he's considering and looking forward to the Aptera. One other thing to consider is the fact that he could easily run commercially available bio-diesel, OR convert his vehicle to run veggie oil - something a Type 1H owner has no option of doing.

[danieloneil01]

Whoa whoa whoa! Step back and take a breath! There are valid reasons for him owning a diesel truck, namely pulling his fifth wheel trailer.
Look at it this way, at least he's considering and looking forward to the Aptera. One other thing to consider is the fact that he could easily run commercially available bio-diesel, OR convert his vehicle to run veggie oil - something a Type 1H owner has no option of doing.


I didn't say anything about his 5th wheel. He's obviously using the truck without hauling anything since he wants an Aptera. So please step back and take a breath.

Yes, he could run veg oil but it's no cheaper unless he makes it himself. I know about veg oil, I live in the capital industry of Chemical Plants and Refineries and work in them. They'll never sell veg oil alot cheaper even though it's cheaper to make.


PS, what about my question in my first post?

[Raiyn]

Yes, he could run veg oil but it's no cheaper unless he makes it himself. I know about veg oil Err, I don't think so, because restaurants pay people to take it away. All he has to do is find a Mom and Pop greasy spoon (no corporate entanglements) and he's set. As for your question, when you can ask one without the underlying motive I'll answer it.

[n_dawg]

convert his vehicle to run veggie oil - something a Type 1H owner has no option of doing.

Yeah, this is why I still hope Aptera will have a diesel option later on. Like I mentioned earlier, that Volkswagen 1-litre car engine looks pretty nice…

PS: gary, I know ;)

[gistmarrs]

I constantly fantasize about what life would be like without my mortgage payment
It is nice, I have no mortage right now. However, I have no issues of borrowing against it if the right investment opportunity became available.

[gistmarrs]

Let me get this straight. You have a huge truck and will wait for a 2 seater green car?

Why not just buy a used crappy looking car or truck that gets good mileage now and just resale it when you get the Aptera?

I've looked at several options. Small used cars are really over priced right now. My current thinking is to convert my motorcycle to being street legal and ride that until the Aptera shows up.

I also looked at using waste veggy oil and that voids my warranty. I'm not comfortable doing that for a few more years, it's a 2008.

[danieloneil01]

Err, I don't think so, because restaurants pay people to take it away. All he has to do is find a Mom and Pop greasy spoon (no corporate entanglements) and he's set. As for your question, when you can ask one without the underlying motive I'll answer it.



LOL, I was just going to ask my question but I seen that post and had to ask why. And he answered back and looks like you were wrong at assuming.


PS, I'll wait for someone else to answer.

[Raiyn]

I've looked at several options. Small used cars are really over priced right now. My current thinking is to convert my motorcycle to being street legal and ride that until the Aptera shows up.

I also looked at using waste veggy oil and that voids my warranty. I'm not comfortable doing that for a few more years, it's a 2008. Those sound like valid reasons to me, you could, however run commercially availiable biodiesel with no warranty implications.

[gistmarrs]

I'll check the owners manual again, but I believe it states that biodiesel isn't allowed either. If it is, I'll look into finding a station nearby. BTW, what is danieloneil01 waiting for?

Oh, Raiyn,(really off topic) what kind of bike do you have. I have a Corima Puma, Casmano TT bike, and an S-works ultimate. I kick myself for selling a Richard Sachs a few years ago to get the Corima. I have this weird bike fetish.

[Raiyn]

I'll check the owners manual again, but I believe it states that biodiesel isn't allowed either. If it is, I'll look into finding a station nearby.
BTW, what is danieloneil01 waiting for?<scratches head> What's the make & model of your truck?
He could be waiting for the winner of American Idol for all I know.

Oh, Raiyn,(really off topic) what kind of bike do you have. I have a Corima Puma, Casmano TT bike, and an S-works ultimate. I kick myself for selling a Richard Sachs a few years ago to get the Corima. I have this weird bike fetish.
<grins> You've got some nice bikes there, not quite my cup of tea or price range (thank you FL homeowner's insurance :tongue0002: ) but very nice. I'm more of a Riv Reader / Dirt Rag type as opposed to a Velonews / Bicycling type.

Completed bikes and projects:
Daily "driver" / in town bike (http://www.bikeforums.net/showpost.php?p=4408101&postcount=1809)
The "Go play in the dirt Special" (http://www.bikeforums.net/showpost.php?p=545760&postcount=743)
Kiddie trailer I rehabbed / converted into a cargo trailer. (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=311932)

Projects and upcoming purchases:
1971 Kool Lemon Schwinn Varsity - current project resto mod
Salsa La Cruz or similar, I want a road bike that makes sense for a big guy like myself but isn't limited to club rides.

I'm still looking for an appropriately sized Raleigh Robin Hood and a Paramount - preferably a 1976 P13-9 model.

[gistmarrs]

The truck is a 2008 F-450. Here is an article about a guy that blew his engine(with 200miles on it) using biodiesel and Ford tried to stick him with a $20,000 repair bill even though it wasn't caused by the fuel. http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/05/02/i-blew-up-my-2008-f350-on-biodiesel/

I like classics also, the '71 Schwinn is a geat project. Ooohh and the Salsa! mmmmm Good stuff.

[Raiyn]

The truck is a 2008 F-450. Here is an article about a guy that blew his engine(with 200miles on it) using biodiesel and Ford tried to stick him with a $20,000 repair bill even though it wasn't caused by the fuel. http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/05/02/i-blew-up-my-2008-f350-on-biodiesel/
:scared0008:Looks like you've might have enough on your plate with that truck. Looks like the Dodge might have been a better choice. <shrugs>

I like classics also, the '71 Schwinn is a great project. Ooohh and the Salsa! mmmmm Good stuff. Yeah, the Schwinn is getting a work over, I'm taking her down to the bare frame and working my way out. New powdercoat (same color), ditching the Ashtabula crank and BB for a (likely) FSA crank, new brakes / levers (likely Tektro R556's or 800's pulled by R200a's depending on mood and progress), I've got a stem I like, (old Kalloy model that I found NOS) probably slap a Nitto Randonneur bar on it (if not a Nitto 115), Brooks saddle etc etc etc. It will stay a friction shifted freewheel bike with 27" wheels (I still haven't decided if I want to farm them out or not) and the headbadges and decals will of course be returned to the bike upon completion. Like I said, resto-mod.

I fully realize that many bike geeks look down their noses at the electro-forged Schwinns calling them boat anchors and so on, but I'm the one riding it, and I'm the one enjoying the process of restoring and modifying it into something a bit more personal.

The Salsa on the other hand screams for a 50t and an 11-26 as well as some slicks in the 28c range. I even like the color

[Aptera860]

Your credit union had you talking to the wrong people. It's unlikely that any financial institution will turn down a vehicle loan. Let alone with the reason you were given. Aptera is licensed to sell its vehicle in the US. Once they have a motorcycle vin number on each vehicle they will be available for sale and financed through your bank or credit union etc. Aptera will not have to carry its own financing unless it wants to. If you speak to somebody that tells you they do not loan money for new manufacturers, smile and ask to speak to the manager!

[Aptera#1434]

They will finance the Aptera. I spoke to them in person.

[Vasil]

Also make sure your insurance providers are prepared for the Aptera's market debut. Make sure your provider will cover the Aptera. From what I heard from my agent at HWP Insurance, Progressive has approved it.

[Aptera#1434]

Excellent point. We should all put these two items on our research list to be prepared in advance of our Aptera purchase.

[JimmyDreams]

Also make sure your insurance providers are prepared for the Aptera's market debut. Make sure your provider will cover the Aptera. From what I heard from my agent at HWP Insurance, Progressive has approved it.

I sent my insurer (USAA) an email about the Aptera yesterday.

Their reply was simply "if it has a VIN number, we'll be able to insure it from day one". They even provided an estimate for the increase in my policy!! ;)

JimmyD

[Apt3448]

Hey, Jimmy, did you say 'increase'? Are you adding an Aptera or replacing a car?

[JimmyDreams]

Hey, Jimmy, did you say 'increase'? Are you adding an Aptera or replacing a car?

The insurance company assumed I'd be adding the car.

I really have to have and USE my Aptera before I can decide if I will dump one of my other cars. The Aptera will be used for work commute and local travel. But my BMW isn't going anywhere, and my Ford Explorer may stay because A) it's been paid for for a LONG time, and B) I doubt I can fit my 90lb German Shepherd in the Aptera (comfortably). The Ford rarely gets used....Home Depot runs and taking the dogs someplace.

JimmyD

[KarenRei]

Yeah, Jimmy, I'm rather curious about that. How much extra did they say adding an Aptera would be? I could use this to help refine the economics calculations on the ApteraWiki.

[JimmyDreams]

Karen...

USAA estimated my Aptera insurance would raise my premium around $800/yr. That's just an estimate, though.

I'm over 40, have little or no claims, no tickets, and carry full liability on my BMW and possibly my Ford Explorer (I'd have to check).

There are probably cheaper insurance companies out there, but USAA is also my bank, so I like keeping everything consolidated. :)

JimmyD