Has any of you Reserved your Aptera yet?

[Holander]

Just curious. Has anyone paid the $500 to reserve one of these Apteras yet? I would be interested to see if anyone here has one coming :)

[Yanquetino]

Alas...! I wish I could put down my $500 deposit, but... we don't live in California (sigh). Gotta wait, I suppose.

[Prestadude]

Yes, my reservation number is 383 but I want the hybrid version which will not be released until 2009 (at least by the current schedule).

[cogito]

Prestadude,
When did you reserve your aptera? I put my deposit down Dec. 28 (also for hybrid) and I’m in the high 800s.
-C

[Prestadude]

I placed my reservation in the first week of November.

[Shooty]

Hi all. Brand new to the forum! I reserved my hybrid Aptera in the last few days of December. I'm #901.
-Shooty

[Yanquetino]

Geez... already 901 orders placed! That's incredible. :eek: It wouldn't surprise me if there are over a thousand by now, given the recent media exposure.

Those numbers start me thinking. That's a lot of orders to fulfill. You'd need a large factory and assembly line, a stockpile of parts, a batallion of workers. I mean... to deliver those orders in a year's time Aptera would need to manufacture about four Typ-1s per day, seven days a week. That's quite a job!

I hope Fambro is, at this very moment, starting to line up the infrastructure. They've got about a half-million bucks in deposits as collateral to get them started, but even that amount can go fairly quickly. I wish them the best in meeting the challenge! I really want Aptera to succeed!

[Aptera#965]

Hi All,

I found out about the Aptera Jan 2nd and placed my deposit the morning of Jan 3rd. I wish I found out about this sooner!

As a former Prius owner, I'm very excited and hopeful about this project becoming a reality.

I have a feeling this forum will be a pretty popular place before the end of 2008.

Looking forward to chatting to all of you perspective Apterians!

[Yanquetino]

#965: Geez... I am green with envy of you folks in California who are allowed to put down deposits. And how the orders are stacking up! Sheesh... they probably will top a thousand in another two days. At this rate, even if they did allow me to put a deposit down, I probably couldn't occupy the driver's seat for another two years! Maybe I should have my in-laws in Sacramento buy the car for me...? But they aren't even selling them in Northern California yet! I'll bet that Steve Fambro never thought his idea would turn out this popular.

By the way, I really like your term Apterian. We'll have to all adopt it. It's better than... Apterite. Apterish. Apterino. Apterese. Welcome to the forum, you lucky Apterian, you!

[Aptera#965]

Hey thanks for the warm welcome :)

I'm only wishing that I found out about the Aptera sooner! Being #965 on the list, my patience will surely be tested.

Have they released any info on how many Apteras are to be produced on a monthly basis :confused:

Hope I won't be waiting until 2010 for my Aptera :eek:

According to Google Maps I live 10.1 miles from Aptera Motors. I will stop by and see if they'll let my poke my head in and see whats up. Will they let me in? Who knows, but I'll sure give it a try, and I WILL have my camera phone with me :D

[Yanquetino]

#965: Naw... Aptera hasn't said anything yet about production schedules or capacities. I surmise that first they want to get through the crash testing and after that they'll start ramping up the assembly line. I wish they would provide a bit more information myself, particularly a more complete list of specifications. I guess that, for now, we just have to trust the promise on their home page:

More information is coming; data, pictures, specs, crash test info, please be patient... it's on its way.

Hey, if they do answer the door when you knock, please pass along regards from all of us here in the Apterian forum! We're rooting for them!

[3-4-me]

I just found this forum(after signing up at yahoo groups:rolleyes: ).
I'm glad to see a real forum structure.:D
I first learned of this vehicle on 1/3/08, and made my deposit on 1/5/08. My dad and I each got one, he's 975 and I'm 976.:cool:
I hate the thought of waiting that long, but this has been a dream of mine for over 20 years. My dad had a dealership for Unisports in '74, and I built my own 3 wheeler in '89.
I've been thinking about doing an electric conversion on mine for a couple of years now, but after seeing the Aptera, I'm ready to scrap the whole project. This so surpasses mine that it's not even funny.
Anyways, hello all, I look forward to the journey ahead;)

[Yanquetino]

Welcome to both you and your Dad, 3-4-me! If it's any consolation, my wait will likely be longer than for most Apterians here, since I don't live in California. :( One thing to remember: what model are you interested in? If it's the Typ-1e (EV, what I would pick), they will go into production before the Typ-1h (hybrid), so your number might move up! Uh... or down, I suppose, if you want the hybrid.

[3-4-me]

Thanks for the welcome.
We reserved the Hybrid.
Living in SoCal, it's not too hard to pass the 120 mile mark in a day. I'm 50 miles from LA, but it's one continuous city after another.

Where are you in Utah? After we retire, the wife and I are thinking about Cedar City for relocation.

[Yanquetino]

3-4-me: Well, your wait might be longer for the hybrid. Still not as long as mine, however. :( We live pretty far north in the state, in a small town called (believe it or not) Eden, about an hour from SLC. Right now the snow on the sides or our driveway is shoulder height. :eek: Cedar City is a nice area, but still pretty cold compared to St. George, one hour further south (and much lower altitude). Of course, the latter is becoming another Californian city, what with all the retirees moving there. They say you can't even drive into Zions National Park anymore: they only allow buses in because of all the congestion. Sheesh...!

[typ-1h]

Geez... already 901 orders placed! That's incredible. :eek: It wouldn't surprise me if there are over a thousand by now, given the recent media exposure.

Those numbers start me thinking. That's a lot of orders to fulfill. You'd need a large factory and assembly line, a stockpile of parts, a batallion of workers. I mean... to deliver those orders in a year's time Aptera would need to manufacture about four Typ-1s per day, seven days a week. That's quite a job!

I hope Fambro is, at this very moment, starting to line up the infrastructure. They've got about a half-million bucks in deposits as collateral to get them started, but even that amount can go fairly quickly. I wish them the best in meeting the challenge! I really want Aptera to succeed!

Actually there are only a fraction of parts that make up the body compared to the common assembly line assembled automobile. This helps with both aerodynamics and assembly speed at the same time. Couple that with ultra-lightweight and high strength parts and the assembly goes even smoother. Because of this, theoretically 3 people could assemble 1000 Aptera typ-1's in a year.

[Yanquetino]

typ-1h:

That's pretty impressive, when you think about it. Of course, I knew that the Aptera was a much simpler design than a typical car, even an EV, but to think that 3 people could actually assemble about 4 per day boggles my mind. A lot would depend upon optimal organization of the workstation, I suppose: nuts here, bolts there, batteries to the left, tires to the right, steering wheels in the blue bin, seat cushions in the green bin, etc., and all within fairly reasonable reach. A lot would also depend upon the consistency and reliability of the suppliers, so that the bins holding those various components would never empty out.

This gets me thinking: if assembly is that much easier, then I suspect the other prototypes will drive out the door soon --if they haven't already. Sounds to me like the crash tests are just around the corner!

You are obviously much closer to the actual dream than the rest of us. To think that you've even sat in the cockpit! Well... you're just going to have to be the prime source to answer all our queries and concerns, huh?

[typ-1h]

Yes it is pretty amazing. Trust me I was a load of questions my first time there. As far as crash tests go Aptera has run just about every possible simulation of a virtual crash all of which have preformed favorably. As for real world simulations, that is something which will occur once more actual vehicles are made. As for manufacturing capabilities on site, very little of what goes into the actual production of the typ-1 is outsourced because of its completely unique nature. This means two things: 1. Aptera does not have to rely on as many partner companies as would be expected and 2. Since many of the parts are made by Aptera there will be a need for extra personnel to fulfill these orders. As you can see there are pros and cons to this situation.

[MegaAutoBit]

Hi everyone,

This is my first post so, let me say thank you to the creator of this forum.
After finding the Aptera while following other alternative vehicle, I quickly fell in love with the type-1 and placed my order. I decided to go with the hybrid version, since I am a young guy who is about to graduate from college, and have no idea where I will be within the next year, or the type of commuting I will require. Especial since I frequently travel to central and southern California. Even though it has only been a month since I placed my order it feels so much longer. However, the idea of turning on my computer every morning for approximately the next year to discover more details about this exciting vehicle is thrilling. It’s like watching something grow. Anyway, I placed my order on 12/2/2007, and was confirmed as order number 494.:)

[3-4-me]

Welcome MegaAutoBit,
I'm jealous, you're about halfway up the line from me:mad:
I've had more vehicles than I can count right now, but never came across one so greatly anticipated. Enjoy the preride.:p

[MegaAutoBit]

Thanks for the welcome. I was hoping to get a nice round number like 500, which would be really cool, when I placed my order, but you can’t have everything.

[RoxChkPlusOny]

I found this little guy about three days ago, and judging by your slot numbers I should've acted on instinct and went for it then. I just signed up and got this number... you win some, you lose some. I'll drop this reservation if the VentureOne comes out first - reservations there are FREE.

[MegaAutoBit]

I found this little guy about three days ago, and judging by your slot numbers I should've acted on instinct and went for it then. I just signed up and got this number... you win some, you lose some. I'll drop this reservation if the VentureOne comes out first - reservations there are FREE.


The VentureOne, that’s just a hybrid version of the Carver, right? The Carver is nice, but it doesn’t appear to have the same level of safety performance.

[RoxChkPlusOny]

No, it certainly doesn't! I'm not overly concerned about either one, though. I'm definitely pulling for the Aptera, particularly because if I can only have one other person in the "car" with me, I'd prefer them sitting next to me. I doubt my rear passenger is gonna volunteer as a full-time shoulder masseuse back there, so conversational company could be nice :)

[heatMd]

My Monday thru Friday daily commute plus drives to visit clients averages 250 miles Monday thru Friday.
That totals 62,500 miles a year, and I am currently getting 25mpg.
I use 2500 gallons /yr., @ $3.25/gallon =2500 x 3.25 = $8,125 annual gasoline bill.
I will be plugging my sweet Aptera horseless hybrid carriage in at work and at home each night for free (free because very soon during the day the power companies will pay me and all of my confederates to be plugged into the system and used as back-up electricity for the power grid, helping reduce power blackouts and the urgent need to build more power plants.Google = vehicle to grid technology) .
I will average OVER 500 mpg, 1000mpg the first 50 miles driven, then 400mpg at 125 miles, my daily half way point.
http://www.aptera.com/details.php
500mpg @$3.25 = 125 gallons x 3.25 = $406.25 year gas bill. Savings in gas = $7718.75 each year
In 5 years I take $38,593.75 from the Opeckers' fat wallets and give $30,000 to this great American start-up, and throw myself an $8,125 party.
God Bless Aptera Motors.
Steve Fambro for President.
Sincerely,
Aptera production slot #352.

[3-4-me]

Hey, nice spin.
I like you're math. Even if it's a little optomistic, I think you have a great argument.

Wanna trade res. #'s:D

[RoxChkPlusOny]

Try this little piece of math for people who drive more normal (12,000/yr) commutes and already are driving economic cars (I put this on OhGizmo! today):

Compare to a Corolla priced at 18k, gets 35mpg. At 12,000mi/yr and $4.00/gal of gas over the next 5 years, plus $50/mo of maintenance (oil change, tire, etc), and it will cost you 28k. Take the same period of time and $0.02/mi for the Typ-1e sold at 27k, and I wildly estimate $10/mo of maintenance (wiper fluid, tires) and it comes out to 29k. And I hope your car lasts longer than 5 years.

[in4mer]

622

%nfsd

[KarenRei]

The average car on the road in the US is 8.5 years old. I would assume that this would mean that the average life expectancy for a car in the US is double that, so 17 years old.

Just try and come up with a realistic driving scheme where going to an electric doesn't pay off in 17 years ;) Even when you amortize the extra initial capital costs and pay interest on them, it's still bloody hard to not pay back the difference.

[cogito]

The average car on the road in the US is 8.5 years old. I would assume that this would mean that the average life expectancy for a car in the US is double that, so 17 years old.

Just try and come up with a realistic driving scheme where going to an electric doesn't pay off in 17 years ;) Even when you amortize the extra initial capital costs and pay interest on them, it's still bloody hard to not pay back the difference.


Unless the batteries don't hold up and one has to repeatedly replace them.

[KarenRei]

Shouldn't be an issue with lithium iron phosphate. Few companies (with the notable exception of Tesla and a couple others) plan to use lithium cobalt oxide (laptop) batteries, which have the significant lifespan (and fire) problems.

[Aptera#842]

I can't wait to drive it!

[Aptera #1129]

Reserved mine 1/23/2008. #1129 in line. Ordered the Hybrid version. Can't wait! :)

[Aptera 1103]

We placed our reservation last weekend. Can not wait for this dream car to be produced. We currently drive a 2002 Honda Insight, still the most fuel efficient car on the road. At the time the Insight came out it was really revolutionary. I remember people asking us how we liked the car. I would respond that I was on the 6th or 7th (etc) tank with a big grin. The Aptera (hybrid) will be another quatum leap forward! I can not wait to tell people that I forgot when the last time was that I bought gas:rolleyes:

With solar panels on our roof I can not wait to utilize the energy we make "in-house" on the road. The Honda has been great to own. Never a problem with the car so far. I am convinced Detroit will not be ready to make the cars we need today for many years from now. Thank you to Aptera for putting all the pieces together into one terrific looking car. And thanks to the creators of this forum. I am only sorry it took me a few weeks to find it.

[mrxxmas]

My production sloct is 1145 for the hybrid as of 25 Jan 2008. Hard to wait a year of more.....:D

[Yanquetino]

Sheeeeeesh! Already 1145 orders placed! :eek: By the end of the month Aptera will likely have TWICE as many reservations as Telsa for the first year of production! Incredible. With such overwhelming public interest, surely venture capitalists can see the potential profit on the horizon. :p

I wonder if it might be prudent to put a "cap" on the list for the time being...? Or perhaps try to project a more accurate, progressive timeline for delivery (no guarantees, of course)...?

I just don't want any customers to someday start screaming at Aptera because they've been waiting for "X" number of months, you know?

[Aptera 1103]

Wow!

We reserved ours on 1-19-08. By 1-25 there were 23 more reservations:cool: .

[Aptera1171]

Just registered for my Hybrid -- production slot 1171. Figure I'm planning ahead for 2009, right?

[Aptera 1103]

I wonder if the local car dealers have had this many people place reservations to purchase one of their cars in the last 21 days. I'll bet there have been more Apteras reserved then all the Ford's, Chevys, Hondas, and Toyotas sold during the same period in this area.

[Aptera #1159]

Do you think it woud be ok for us to email aptera for an answer? When will I get my car, I am ###? Will you put a cap on preorders? How fast will you produce the cars? etc. Family@aptera.com? Or Call?

Any of you think you know when I will be getting my car? I would like to know what the average production rate for a company like this is.

Another thing I am excited about is the myaptera.com, where we can customize our car and we get all the inside details.

[Aptera #1159]

I knew about Aptera when it came on the market, but my mom and I were hesitant. Then I came here, and saw the # was in the 1000's and I freaked out.
I told her it was fully refundable, and I have since paid her back. Wish I ordered sooner.

Blah!

[LQUAN]

All of my savings are tied up in my business at the moment. I will definitely put in a deposit this summer. Just love the looks of this baby. I hope Aptera offer other exterior colors other than white. I want my in silver.

[KarenRei]

I want my in silver.

Going for that "Just arrived from Mars" look, eh? :)

[Aptera #1159]

Going for that "Just arrived from Mars" look, eh? :)
I want mine in black! STEALTH! I dont know how this will affect the solar cooling system though. Night black aptera would look god like.

[Yanquetino]

"They can have any color they want, as long as its... white...?"

Actually, in the FAQs at Aptera's web site, they state:

Currently white is the only color that will initially be made available on the Aptera. White is a very effective color for keeping your Aptera cool in the summer and it makes the vehicle very identifiable at night which is an added safety feature. After initial production has begun we will look at different colors and possibly vinyl graphics to accessorize your Aptera.

That actually makes a lot of sense to me. And night visibility is an important consideration since EVs run so quietly that other drivers might not notice it otherwise. :eek:

I once had a white car (Toyota Corolla) and now have a black one (Subaru Outback). You wouldn't believe the difference, not only in temperature, but also in appearance. White actually stays "cleaner" longer. Go figure.

Yes, the Outback looks absolutely gorgeous :cool: --when washed. Unfortunately, the gunk that sprays up on our roads is more often than not a whitish color --so it constantly looks terrible. The Corolla, on the other hand, always looked amazingly "clean."

I would thus prefer the Aptera's original white color, even if other shades become available. Of course, my wife has other opinions, always based on "appearance" rather than practicality. She shuns white cars because she says she feels like she is riding in an "ambulance." :p

[John O]

I reserved on Feb 3rd and I'm #1198. I got off my bke at 60 in the Santa Cruz Mountains and it got me thinking about something enclosed. I'd always wanted an EV, and the Aptera is BOTH! I signed up as soon as I found it...

[nluneau]

I wished I signed up even earlier... I've flown a number of fiberglass and glass fiber sailplanes and really love the glossy-white finish. It will be interesting to have to repair a collision when the glass-fiber is damaged. You might have to take it to your local sailplane repair center ;)

Noel

[KarenRei]

Sounds like they're getting several reservations per day. Aptera must be thrilled :)

[LQUAN]

Fiberglass structure is indeed more involving to repair than formed metal structure. I fly giant scale RC fiberglass fixed wing aircrafts as a hobby. I had done many fiberglass repairs myself. Airplanes is trickier than land vehicles because you have to watch out for the weight. Adding new weigth meaning you have to rebalance the aircraft.

Regarding the glossy white, I think Aptera will use automotive paint outside of the mold instead of painting in-the-mold like RC airplanes and (may be) full size sailplanes. And I hope that they do. This is the only way we can match the paint color when doing repair. The only advantage of painting in the mold is to keep the weight down. Paint in the mold turns the finish yellowish after leaving the car in the sun for a long time. It is actually the gel coat on top of the paint that turns yellowish, not the paint.

Glad that someone on this forum loves airplanes as I do :) .

[KarenRei]

Once again, I thought Accelerated Composites, now Aptera, specialized in carbon fiber panels, not fiberglass. They've mentioned the construction of the Aptera in comparison to F1 cars (which use carbon fiber) and to how aircraft manufacturers are switching to composites (a clear reference to, for example, Boeing's Dreamliner that's using carbon fiber, and Airbus's attempts to catch up). Example:

---
The Aptera© is made almost entirely of lightweight composites, making it one of the lightest cars on the road. Yet this savings does not come at the cost of safety. In fact, the construction of the car is based on the driver-protection "crash box" found in Formula One race cars. "Composites are enormously strong and lightweight," says Fambro. "That's why all the aircraft manufacturers are switching to them."
---

The "enormously strong and lightweight", too, I think suggests carbon fiber. Fiberglass isn't weak, for sure, but it's not as strong as carbon fiber, which can absorb ~5 times as much energy per pound as a steel panel. Either way, though, I think the concept is not to have panel repair but panel replacement.

[LQUAN]

I have no doubt that Aptera will have some carbon fiber material sandwiched within the structure. But mainly it will have fiberglass. The reason I believe so is because I've seen the video by PM posted on Aptera website. On some of the frames you will see that the backside (or inner side) of the shell is WHITE not black. I have never come accross carbon fiber material that is not black in color. My cousin owns TRU-FIBER which makes after market sport car hoods. I visit his factory in Anaheim very often (to steal material for my own airplane repair :D ). I am very familiar with how his car hoods are made. He used one sheet of weaved carbon fiber cloth on top for looks and reduce heat expansion. The rest are stranded fiberglass and epoxy resin. Large hoods for Mustang have carbon fiber tows for reinforcement.

[KarenRei]

1) I watched the video and didn't see any backsides. Time?
2) Aptera uses their own proprietary production method, called Panelized Automated Composite Construction, so I would be surprised if they did end up looking exactly the same as any other manufacturer's products.
3) Colored carbon fiber and colored carbon fiber/kevlar blends are available on the market.
4) Given what they said about F1 cars and aircraft, it'd seem surprising if they didn't use carbon fiber.

Update: Just found this:
http://thefraserdomain.typepad.com/energy/2006/01/accelerated_com.html

"The car named the Aptera TM, is made out of materials which give the car its incredibly light weight. Over 90% of the automobile will be composed of composites, including the seat structure, swing, and upper and lower control arms. The vehicle uses lightweight core throughout the sandwich panels, some of which use synthetic materials, while others are engineered natural products. Reinforcements used include carbon, glass and aramid (Kevlar) fibers."

So, looks like it's a combination of three different reinforcing fabrics. Tensile strengths:

Carbon fiber: up to 5.65 GPa
Kevlar: 3 GPa
Glass fiber: About the same as Kevlar, although twice as dense.

[LQUAN]

KarenRei,

On the PM video, notice the uncovered interior right after when Steve talked about the front end where the battery and gas generator locate, you see that the backside of the shell is somewhat white/yellowish. This indicates to me that they use sandwich core as part of the the COMPOISTE. It is likely that they used honeycomb material for superior strenght. Then, they have to protect the other side of the core with fiberglass. I used to buy fiberglass material from

http://www.fibreglast.com/showproducts-category-Sandwich%20Core-157.html

you can browse around to see some other materials people used as COMPOSITE. Kevelar/fiberglass/carbon fiber tow maybe used at critical section for reinforcement. Honeycomb is the best and extremely expensive. Most people opt for laminated bulker if weight is not a concern.

And yes, the car is assembled from composite panels. There is no way it would be feasible for them to make molds at the size of a car.

[fritzponds]

I'm #642 and getting a hybrid.

[3-4-me]

1)

Update: Just found this:
http://thefraserdomain.typepad.com/energy/2006/01/accelerated_com.html


That Blog is over two years old. I wouldn't take that info to the bank. There were several inaccuracies.
1.They stated a retail of $20k
2.stated weight @860lbs.(I've read closer to 1400lbs.)
3.They stated lead gauze batteries
4."The car will powered by an off the shelf 12 horsepower single cylinder, air cooled, German made Hatz diesel engine weighing less than 50 pounds and a 25 horsepower electric motor.
The Aptera has a true parallel drive meaning that the car can be driven by either the engine or the motor or by both."
We know the diesel is out.

They give these dimensions:
The automobile will be 4.3 m (173 inches) in length, with a front wheel track of 1.6 m (64 inches).
They could be taken from the original prototype though.

[KarenRei]

Yes, those numbers are taken from the pre-Mk1 days. But I doubt they'd change what they're making the panels out of, especially given that the price of the Aptera has gone *up*, not down.

[aptera@1227]

I reserved mine on February 7 ...
1227 !
did anyone have any idea how long we have to wait?

[Yanquetino]

aptera@1227:

Let's see... Emily Mizutani at Aptera wrote to #1103:
Based on current production estimates, we will fill all current orders by the late summer of 2009.
Of course, what was "current" then likely no longer applies: your reservation number is 124 higher. Since the plan is to start delivery next October, they apparently intend to build about 140 per month in order to produce a thousand by the end of the folllowing summer. It therefore seems plausible to speculate that yours won't be delivered until... the end of September 2009. We'll see, huh?

On the other hand, it will also depend upon what kind of Aptera folks have ordered, because they have stated on several occasions that the Typ-1e will be the first ones off the assembly line, and the Typ-1h will follow later. My guess is that, as a consequence, some orders will move up the priority list :D , and others down :( , depending upon which models buyers specify on their "MyAptera.com" page in the future.

[nluneau]

The best thing about my old sailplane - an ASW-17 with a 20 meter wingspan - was that the gel coat was removed and epoxy paint was applied. Gel coat loves to yellow and crack (especially with thousands of wing flexes) and the epoxy paint sanded, polished, and waxed very nicely.

Here is an example...

http://www.luneau.net/happenings/ASW-17/pages/PICT0060_JPG.htm

Noel
1. 1997 Solectria Force EV
2. #501 Type 1h 20??
3. Coveting the Tesla

[Aptera#965]

http://www.luneau.net/happenings/ASW-17/pages/PICT0060_JPG.htm

Can you say "Spruce Goose"?? What's the wingspan on that?

Most impressive.....and brave :)

Closest I got to that was r/c gliders when I was a kid :D

[nluneau]

You Laugh with "Spruce Goose" but in 1978 the ASW-17 was built with a wooden spar, which I can say with experience makes the inner panel of the wing really bloody heavy. So heavy that at the start and end of the season I needed to bring lot's of bear to find four guys willing to mantle and dis-mantle the bird. This was way before glass-fiber and one-person rigging.

20 meter wingspan and 48:1 glide ratio. Ipaq with moving map display was the key instrument and of course the Mark-One eyeball ;)

Noel

[LQUAN]

Aptera 965,

If you think the RC glider you have seen was impressive. Check out my RC bird ;) .

Type: Extra 300L Aerobatic
Wing span: 2.6m (103 in)
Dry Weight: 24lbs
Engine: 100cc twin cylinder (gasoline), 9.5hp @ 43lbs thrust
Chassy: composite (fiberglass, foam core, carbon fiber tow reinforcement)

[Aptera#965]

:eek: HUGE!

I don't fly r/c anymore, partially because my eyesight just isn't what it used to be but THAT- I could see THAT.

Awesome!

[Chupacabra]

Welcome me as the newest member of the family.... I signed up today as #1288!

I chose the Hybrid, so I'll get mine a little later (grumble!) but, on the other hand I'll get to see how other Apteras do on the road before I have to "sign on the dotted line"! If I have any misgivings, no harm no foul I can get out of it!

I wonder if the reason I love the Aptera so much is because its so close to airplanes. I've always wanted to learn how to fly. And as a kid I used to fly RC sail planes. My favorite was an oldie you may remember, the 2x4!

As for color, white is good for visibility and reflecting heat. They could still go with a pearl white, or metallic silver and have similar effects. Personally, I would want mine in red!

[KarenRei]

Congrats, Chupacabra! :) With #1288, you can probably expect your car some time around fall of '09.

Red? Wow, and I thought a white Aptera stands out! Trying to make pilots of airplanes flying overhead want to swing in for a closer look? ;)

[butter]

Now welcome *me* to the family!

As of 6:49 pm PST today (Feb 22), I became #1294.

After 12 days of heavy pondering and daydreaming, I decided to hand over the $500 -- and after another 24 hours, decided on the all-electric version. KarenRei's arguments for the all-electric helped sway my already-appealed sensibilities.

I can't remember the last time I drove more than 120 miles in an entire week, and also can't remember the last time I had more than 1 passenger in a car I was driving. In fact, I can probably count on one hand the number of times in the last 365 days I even *had* a single passenger in my car. I am SO the perfect target user for the all-electric version. Well, ALMOST perfect: if I didn't live in a condo, I would totally pour my cash into installing solar panels on my rooftop to generate my own clean, wonderful, coal-not-needed-thank-you electricity.

Doesn't matter, anyhow. This is seriously like a car-dependent-but-greenhouse-gas-hating freak's fantasy come true. This will completely change the way I feel about driving, because I've always felt a gnawing guilt every single time I drove my car -- and I have a pretty fuel-efficient Corolla (and before that, a two-door Ford Escort).

Anyway, blabby blab blab, I'm just so thrilled... I'll end this message now.

EXCITED BEYOND WORDS
Amy

[KarenRei]

Hehe... with the electric, by my calculations, using the typical mix of electricity sources that power London (a city that I found stats for), the Typ-1e emits less than 1/5th as much CO2 per mile as your Corolla does ;) And less of every major pollutant (far less on several) except for sulfur dioxide, which, while it contributes to acid rain, also contributes to global *cooling* :) Nitrous oxides are about the same with the Aptera, while carbon monoxide (a neurotoxin/cardiotoxin) and unburned hydrocarbons (irritants, often carcinogenic) are virtually eliminated. And the greatly reduced emissions that *are* released aren't released in densely populated areas like conventional auto emissions are. And this is with largely *coal*-fired power! Just wait until the grid starts to green.

Welcome to the future. :)

[butter]

Oh my god you're only getting me even more excited with all these juicy details oh my god. I won't be able to go to sleep tonight. I am purposely refraining from using exclamation points. My brother, a climate scientist who lives in NYC, would be so proud of me. He may even let me pick him up from the airport next time he visits (instead of taking public trans, which takes 2.5 hours here in LA, even though our parents live 12 miles total, from terminal to door). Only question is, would I be able to fit his luggage in the back of the Aptera? Hmm..

[mrxxmas]

Welcome in to the Aptera Family, Amy. #1294. Gee, Aptera must have 1300 reservations by now.

According to the FAQ on the Aptera website, "There is enough storage space to fit 15 bags of groceries, two full-size golf club bags or even a couple of seven foot surf boards."

So if your brother can fit his luggage contents into 15 empty grocery bags...You have the problem solved.....pick him up at the airport and help him with his "bags".....heh heh.

Mr XXmas #1145

[butter]

Thanks, Mr XXmas! The interesting thing about the "15 bags of groceries" or "7-foot surfboards" is they don't necessarily spell out the 3-D shape of the back area. Surfboards are long, but they are also very skinny and flat. Groceries are more voluminous but come in relatively small "packages" that could be reconfigured in different ways. The two golf bags example is a little more reassuring, though, because golf bags are shaped more "inconveniently" than either surfboards or groceries, and they are much more rigid, so you can't exactly smush them down or bend them a little or whatever to make them fit.

If my brother had, say, two big rolling luggage thingies -- the kind that are check-in only due to their size -- would they be too rectangular to fit in the tapered space in the back? Like, I could envision them fitting, but then closing the back door would be the problem.

Other questions (just out of curiosity, not necessity) would be like, if I carpooled with my cellist friend to rehearsals and gigs, would his cello fit in the back, along with my violin? Cello cases are a lot bulkier than the instruments.

Of course, that isn't a huge deal whether a cello fits or not cause like I said above, about over 99% of the time I'm driving a car, I'm completely alone and without much if any cargo.

[KarenRei]

Yeah -- I wish they'd release their 3d model of the Aptera. I know they have at least one, because they've done renderings and are doing computerized crash tests. A 3d model would give us a lot of info.

[RoxChkPlusOny]

Thankfully, the idea is that we'll get to test drive a model before making our purchases, because service stations will be up near you when yours is available. Good news, yeah?

[qpham63]

KarenRei,

On the PM video, notice the uncovered interior right after when Steve talked about the front end where the battery and gas generator locate, you see that the backside of the shell is somewhat white/yellowish. This indicates to me that they use sandwich core as part of the the COMPOISTE. It is likely that they used honeycomb material for superior strenght. Then, they have to protect the other side of the core with fiberglass. I used to buy fiberglass material from

http://www.fibreglast.com/showproducts-category-Sandwich%20Core-157.html

you can browse around to see some other materials people used as COMPOSITE. Kevelar/fiberglass/carbon fiber tow maybe used at critical section for reinforcement. Honeycomb is the best and extremely expensive. Most people opt for laminated bulker if weight is not a concern.

And yes, the car is assembled from composite panels. There is no way it would be feasible for them to make molds at the size of a car.

:D
Well, I have seen the inside and looked carefully at the out side as well as most of their masters. The vehicle is mostly composite and is mostly sandwiched and I do believe it is foam core. It is not colored graphite or a hybrid cloth. Graphite fibers are sometimes coated with metals such as copper, nickel to alter their electrical performance and also for use in lightning strike on the outer panels or aircraft. The Radomes for the Advance Hawkeye gas a layer of ultra fine expanded aluminum for static dissipation and lightning strike. I have only worked a little on this radome for the past 7 years that our company (Applied Aerospace Structures Corp) have been building them for L3 Communications who is under contract with Northrom Grumman who build these radomes for the US Navy.

You can add opaque or translucent pigment into the resin matrix but that will not "hide" the graphite, you will still see it. You can also paint it but why do that becaue paint adds weight. What I saw looks to be glass over foam core with a decent bag side finish indicating that there is not a topical flow media over the panel on the bag side using either an amber epoxy system or phenolic resin (inferior to epoxy for strength) for flame resistance or plain resin over PBO with is similar to Kevlar but does not absorb as much water and is higher in compression strength.

Those are guesses but probably not even good one as I did not have much time with the vehicle.

I believe that the foam core is used because unlike honey comb, it can be co cured well without the honey comb pattern printing though the bag side skin unless match molds are used. I have done lots of development on sandwich panels for use in ground transport. I have picked foam as it is friendly to cocure (save on labor and process time), it can be done with wet processes especially if the foam is closed cell. If the foam is scored or have resin path built in, a process call VARTM (vacuum assisted resin transfer molding) can be used to make a very efficient structure using the foam as a flow media for the process. Foam also have good noise attenuation. I have read somewhere on this forum that some one expect that the noise will be high. I think it may be lower than they expect.

Glass is a very high modulus fiber so it works very well in a lot of structure and it is inexpensive with the exception of S2 and quartz. Graphite can be used but is probably not as "impact resistant" as glass would be and will not save much weight because a large component of a sandwich structure's weight is due to foam, resin so going to T-300 or IM700 for slightly stronger and a little stiffer at much higher cost pushes you beyond the point of diminishing returns. I would spend the money getting lighter wheels, lighter battery and get much better return on my money.

[monkeypickle]

I'm hoping this doesn't turn into another "TRENDY" car to buy, I understand the leaflickers buying them but AHNOLD will prob buy one and then all the "green" celebs will want one then the price shoots up 10 grand:mad:

I'm on the buy one list :D

[Dilekz]

I hope it won't get too pricey. Like the tesla roadster.. that only rich people can affort it. I hope it stay's under 30K. And goes down when it gets produced in mass.

It should easily get cheaper. The only issue is the battery cost. That will not go down really fast. But i guess they can sell it under 20k easily in the future.

[LQUAN]

I think the price will only go down 1 year after production started. 30K is somewhat already pricey for such simple car. After the X-prize competition started, I think we will see more affordable efficient cars. I won't be surprise if big automotive companies will buy out the top standing contestants after the race. They will then turn those winning cars into concept cars for show and tell which will never reach the market. To compete in the X-prize, I think they should make sure that the contestants has at least a 10-year plan to mass produce the cars they used in the competition or at least those cars should be already in production for the market.

[KarenRei]

Perhaps it's just me, but I don't see it as that expensive. I mean, I did the math, and I'd be spending about 75$ a year in electricity instead of $2,000 for gas that I spend on my current (frequently driven) Saturn. (Your Cali power is more expensive, but so is your gas!). Maintenance is a lot trickier, but if you look at it as, say:

Assume: 20 year vehicle life.

Components and costs (these could be way off):
brake pads: $60 every 5 years
tires: $200 every 2 years
drive belt: $200 every 5 years
motor: 50% chance of total replacement ($2k?) in life of vehicle, perhaps $10/annual average cost in addition to that for any little things that might be needed.
Wiring, sensors, etc: Perhaps $30/year.
Batteries: Should be warrantied for a long time. Large format A123 batteries are to be rated for 10+ years and 7000+ cycles, and that doesn't mean they'll just die then. 10 years in the future, there should be ample mass production. Let's say that the owner *does* replace the batteries, but by then they only cost $0.20/Wh by then. $2000.
Misc: $20/year

Total: $323/year
What I'm spending on maintenance for my Saturn this year (nothing big broke -- only little things broke and there was the usual maintenance, but it all added up): ~$1100.

So we're still looking at ~$400 a year operating costs, compared to ~$3k a year. Now, it's not hard to see that to buy an Aptera would save us an average $2600 a year. Well, an 11 or 12 year payback period is almost always a very wide investment *assuming that there are no other benefits* (you know, benefits like, say, *getting a new car*, or saving the planet). Now, there is one complicating factor: we would be keeping our Saturn as a backup vehicle and for trips. Just a couple long trips, despite covering only a small portion of our annual mileage, would cost more than the Aptera! Assuming:

A) Aptera *can't* charge on RV or other higher power outlets, so we can't take our trips in it; and
B) We keep our trip mileage the same

We'd really be spending ~$1000 a year in operating costs (assuming $600/yr for the backup Saturn), saving only $2k a year over what we currently spend. But -- and it gets better -- I *also* would get the EV tax deduction that's currently in the works, starting at ~$5k for an Aptera and decreasing annually from there (at some yet-to-be-decided rate). Let's assume I only get $12k in deductions. That's equivalent to saving abour $5k on the vehicle. Let's say, after options, the vehicle costs $30k, then it's really only costing me $25k. Saving $2k per year, I get a payback period of 12 1/2 years, which is a sound investment.

Let me reiterate: I come up with it being a *Sound Investment* to *Buy A Sleak, Brand-New, Earth-Saving Car*. ;) Given that, there's absolutely no way I can call it "overpriced".

Now, if we're not talking about whether it's a sound investment, but whether they're charging a fair price for the vehicle compared to how much it costs them, let's not forget that this is a low-volume vehicle by a new company, and that there's 10kWh of batteries in there that could be costing them something like $1/Wh (there's quite a range, and I'm not sure how much they'll actually end up paying). Do I think it's overpriced in this regard? Not at all.

[MarrInLA]

It's very affordable (as long as it stays at this price!) compared to what else is out there. The EV concept is commuter car...get the hybrid version if u take alot of trips. I'm very excited about it. :D