In escrow, really?

[Vaaaase]

I first saw something about the Aptera concept around the same time my friend noticed the VentureOne Carver project. At the time the Aptera was just a CG model and the Carver was that goofy couple's heads photoshopped onto a Carver. So both seemed like the kind of "gee whiz" stuff you see in PM that never actually materializes, and I never really expected that it would be anything but vaporware (around the same time I stumbled across the Zap-X and how it would _totally_ be on the streets in late '07, plus didn't some guy actually pull off this scam in the 70s? ...so I think my suspicion is warranted).

So, I wanted to wait to reserve one until I had a sign of some kind, and even then, I almost thought about reserving one, canceling the reservation, and then re-reserving after I confirmed that my deposit actually was refundable.

Point is, even now with the company clearly in operation, I still wonder whether my money really is "in escrow" or what. It still even crosses my mind (albeit more and more in passing) that they're only going to continue to build confidence until they have so many reservations, and then X times $500 plus whatever they have that's liquid from the (actual) investors goes poof! to some Cayman account and they're never heard from again.

Anyone have any scuttlebutt on the bank end of things? Just for peace of mind?

If this was addressed already I missed it.

[KarenRei]

That would be a crazy way to run a scam. Build a series of working prototypes to con a couple thousand (let's say 4,000) people out of a mere 200,000 dollars? And limit the people who can reserve to in-staters? And limit yourself to a tiny pool of private investors? And have a factory and staff, including some having some big names in the industry on your payroll, realistic enough to convince said investors?

That'd be the most poorly run scam I've ever seen.

[Vaaaase]

Originally Posted by KarenRei

That would be a crazy way to run a scam. Build a series of working prototypes to con a couple thousand (let's say 4,000) people out of a mere 200,000 dollars? And limit the people who can reserve to in-staters? And limit yourself to a tiny pool of private investors? And have a factory and staff, including some having some big names in the industry on your payroll, realistic enough to convince said investors?

That'd be the most poorly run scam I've ever seen.

I know, I know. Like I said, at this point, my curiosity is largely just that-- curiosity. Maybe it's just that I'm hungry for other Aptera knowledge and am impatient for some more official releases? Dunno. I just figured that you and the other tech-sleuths might have turned up some details in other arenas than just tech. To be clear, I definitely agree that having it be a scam from the get-go at this point does fly in the face of common sense...

I guess I just see stuff like all the Zap! baloney, and am annoyed that I can get all pumped up about such blatant vapor. Plus, stuff like the "Triac," which was allegedly built in secret(??) and now out of NOwhere they're taking reservations for 10% of the purchase price ( http://www.greenvehicles.com ) which sets off my BS alarm big time. Or stuff like this guy http://www.kpic.com/news/local/13287747.html who got almost half a mil I think. I agree that this amount of effort wouldn't be worth $200k, but by garygid's graph, maybe we'll hit 10k reservations? 20k? Would a big effort be worth $5M? $10M? Plus, like you said, it's realistic enough to suck in some private investors' money too on top... wire it all out before the OFAC or whoever notices and you're livin' surfside for the rest of your days.

This is the one I was thinking of earlier: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dale_%28automobile%29 Even had a working prototype and a bunch of job postings too... I think s/he was even on a talk show so the media bought it then as well.

In short, I believe in it (they do have my $500 after all), so don't get me wrong... I just thought it would be interesting if people were scouring for details other than just which parts and stuff they might be using, and since this is clearly a great forum with dedicated folks, I figured this would be the way to check.

[GunnyD]

Karen,

Count your Zeros again......


4000 * $500 = 2 million dollars

That means 10 thousand dollars a month interest (on 2 million at 6%)

Could be where your 200 thousand came from... 20 months.

[KarenRei]

Left out a zero. Of course, still, compare that to the salaries of ~15 people (I'm sure Neil's salary isn't small in it's own right), plus the payments to all of the companies Aptera has worked with, rent on the building half their videos are from, etc. It'd be one of the most ineptly run scams in history I can just imagine the conversation.

"Let's rip off people who want to buy cars."
"Great idea! I bet they'd put down a couple thousand dollars to reserve a slot."
"No, let's make it just five hundred."
"Oh, okay. Well, we obviously want as many people to give us money as possible..."
"No, I only want to rip off Californians."
"Okay.... well, we'll need some props..."
"Yes, I want to show up at auto shows and give newspapers, magazines, and TV shows test drives. I want everyone from Popular Mechanics to CNN to be convinced that we're legit."
"A working model? But that will cost millions..."
"Right. And we'll need a factory. With nothing out of the ordinary, so investors will trust us."
"Ah, so that's where the money is to come from -- we're really scamming investors! Great, so we'll want to have as wide of an investment pitch as possible..."
"No, we're going to stay closed to a small group of investors."
"But... people across the US would throw money at a company like this!"
"No way -- I'm running this scam, remember? Oh, and let's hire some big names in the industry, too, bring them onboard with the scam..."

Is this what we're picturing?

[fritzponds]

nicely put, I think.

[JoeReal]

IdeaLab is a great reputable company that partnered with Aptera. They would have known and sued Aptera by now if this was a scam.

[Vaaaase]

Originally Posted by KarenRei

[...]
Is this what we're picturing?

OK, well, now I just feel silly! Between this and forgetting the zero... sheesh. :$

I guess I'll settle for common sense.

(Only, that basically IS what happened with the Dale, right?)

[GunnyD]

Hindsight is alway 20/20.

Idealab I am sure has put gobs of money into this and despite what anyone thinks of Californians, they still break arms and legs so I won't worry about my $500.

Since Steve went to Idealab and not to the corner drug dealer for capital like John Delorean, we might have a chance. Since Aptera is not in the same sentence. As Zap. we won't have the problems with stock fraud.

I just hope that Steve stays the course and brings the future to market without getting greedy or scared of the big boys.

[daddio]

I suppose everyone did thier "due diligence" before investing, as best they could....http://www.ftc.gov/ro/western.shtm
Let some professionals help you..... I suppose CA has local news TV consumer Experts you can consult too???
I helped put a different industry's top exectutives behind bars for fraud.. they operated for years, had some TV spots... But could not have been done without someone like the FTC and other "involved folks...
From here.... Aptera look to be on the up and up, but I am not close to this venture... the difficult part is this company will be evolving quickly... to meet "the dream".
I wish this guy luck in meeting your expectations and America's!

Once in production...I'm not sure when consumer reports can get to this vehicle too, for you/the general public in the coming years

Good Luck to us all